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"Success and honor!"

Translation:Qapla' batlh je!

May 27, 2019

20 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adyn222822

why is everything so terribly backwards?!?!?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

...the Klingon asked while he was learning English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Because it is? Klingon word order is different from English order and some parts of the sentence can seem backwards from English word order. An explanation is given in the Tips, but since Duolingo has hidden the Tips I want to make sure you know about them and where to find them. If you have not been reading the Tips, I think you will find them very helpful.

If you are doing the course on iOS or Android, you cannot currently access the Tips through the app. To access the Tips, you will have to access the course using a web browser at https://www.duolingo.com/. You can still do it on your mobile device, but you will have to use the web browser instead of the app (or you can do it from a computer). When you click on a Skill, it will expand to reveal a Start button and a Tips button.

If you click on the Tips button it will show you the Tips and give you a detailed explanation of the grammar that is introduced in that Skill. If you have questions after reading the Tips for any Skills, we are happy to answer your questions, but many of your questions will probably already be answered in the Tips.

The tips and notes for this unit are at https://www.duolingo.com/skill/kl/Useful-phrases/tips-and-notes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/boneghost

out of interest, why isnt it "Qapla' 'ej batlh"? I'm not 100% on when you use the 'ej vs the je?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

'ej is used to join two sentences together and Qapla' and batlh are not sentences (or even verbs). In English we use the word "and" to join things whether they are nouns or verbs (sentences), but in Klingon they use two different words (and even place them in different places). To join two nouns like this, you instead use the word je and place it at the end of the list of nouns that you want to join together.

An explanation is given in the Tips, but I know it’s a lot of new information and some details are bound to be difficult to understand or slip through the memory. However, since Duolingo has hidden the Tips I want to make sure you know about them and where to find them. If you have not been reading the Tips, I would like to ask that you review those.

If you are doing the course on iOS or Android, you cannot currently access the Tips through the app. To access the Tips, you will have to access the course using a web browser at https://www.duolingo.com/. You can still do it on your mobile device, but you will have to use the web browser instead of the app (or you can do it from a computer). When you click on a Skill, it will expand to reveal a Start button and a Tips button.

If you click on the Tips button it will reveal the Tips and give you a detailed explanation of the grammar that is introduced in that Skill. If you have questions after reading the Tips for any Skills, then please return to the forum to ask your question, explaining what you didn’t understand or what seems contradictory to you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/boneghost

oohh that makes sense, thankyou so much!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/le_tra-jeudi

So je is for nouns while 'ej is for verbs and sentences? If I want to say she eats and drinks would I use 'ej?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Yes, that's correct. An additional difference is that je appears at the end of the list of nouns, but 'ej appears between the sentences. Also note that each sentence must still have a proper prefix on the verb, so to say, "I eat and drink," you would have to say jISop 'ej jItlhutlh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dubstep_Wolf

Why is the and last??? This makes no sense


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Because that's how Klingon does it. In English, when joining a list of nouns together we place the "and" before the last item. In Klingon, when joining a list of nouns together we place the je after the last item. I actually think the Klingon way makes more sense than the English way. But it doesn't matter which we think is better, it's just the way it works.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maxkoryukov

I am officially ready to read answers given by el señor @jdmcowan all day long. At least to enjoy, but also to learn how to share all this information in a polite and instructive way. Thank you sir!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adam777929

I thought that tou were supposed to write backwards so i wrote batlh je Qapla'and I was wrong, I wish there were notes or something on the mobile app instrad of throwing me into the deep end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qov-jIH-je

Unfortunately the Tips & Notes aren't available on mobile for the volunteer-made courses like Klingon. The course developers don't have control over that, but they put a lot of work into the notes, so they are worth looking at when you're not on your mobile.

Good to see that you were savvy enough to come to the forums. A lot of questions are already answered here (like an explanation above of why je is last) and if you ask a new question you'll probably get a good answer.

Qapla'!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

I thought that tou were supposed to write backwards

This is not accurate. The main parts of the sentence do seem to be in reverse order in English (subject verb object) and Klingon (object verb sentence), but not all parts of Klingon sentences are "written backwards". Also, there is a danger in that thinking that you will try to read Klingon sentences from the back. This is a bad habit and should be avoided! When you begin to get audio exercises and when you begin to have spoken discussions with other Klingon speakers, you will have to interpret the sentence in forward order. You should instead train your mind to be able to hear the object of the sentence before you hear the verb and hear the subject of the sentence after you hear the verb. It's going to take a little time and effort, but if you put the effort in now, at the beginning, it will be much easier when you begin that transition.

Some parts of Klingon sentences do not have a required order. For instance if you are giving a conjoined list, there is no proscribed order and you may put them in whatever order you think is most appropriate. This is also true in English. Because English and Klingon match in this ability to put the items of the list in whatever order seems best to you, we ask that when you translate from one language to the other, you respect the order selected by the author of the sentence and keep them in the same order. In this sentence, the author chose to put "success" first and "honor" second, so in your Klingon translation, you should also put Qapla' first and batlh second.

Some parts of Klingon sentences DO have a required order. For instance if you are giving a conjoined list of nouns, there IS a proscribed placement of the conjunction. This is also true in English, but the placement is different and in this case, the orders are NOT the reverse of each other. Because English and Klingon DO NOT match in this placement, you will have to change the placement to keep the meaning. In English the conjunction is placed immediately before the last item in the list, but in Klingon the noun conjunction is placed immediately after the entire list, so in your Klingon translation, you should put je after all the items have been listed.

An extra note to prepare your mind for a future lesson: When conjoining full sentences a different conjunction is used and it has a different placement. So there are two "and" words and they work differently. The above specifically applies to the noun conjunction je. You will learn about the sentence/verb conjunction later.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adam777929

^ ok these comments helped me a lot, now I know Klingon isnt backwards it just has a different order than english :) thank you Klingon Masters Qapla' to you both.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BuffyDeMot
  1. Would a sentence like *I want to know" or "I want to understand" be: yaj vIneH (I'm trying to put the "I" prefix onto the root /neH/. It's hard to look structures up. I know where the tips are. I am really enjoying your work.)
  2. Is qapla' with a capital Q, or lower case q?
  3. I found tlhIngan with a lower case /i/ in the dictionary. Do you me to send a screenshot?
  4. Do I use English punctuation the same way in tlhIngan Hol?

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

2 Is qapla' with a capital Q, or lower case q?

Qapla' with a capital Q. It's related to the verb Qap "to succeed".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan
  1. Would a sentence like *I want to know" or "I want to understand" be: yaj vIneH (I'm trying to put the "I" prefix onto the root /neH/. It's hard to look structures up. I know where the tips are. I am really enjoying your work.)

You are very close. The question I have for you is, "who is doing the understanding?" Every verb needs a prefix every time. Here you are using the null prefix (the absence of a prefix), so yaj vIneH would mean "I want him to understand" (or her, it, or them).

To say "I want to understand", you would have to say jIyaj vIneH.

Note that this only works when the second verb is neH. You will learn how to do it for other verbs in a later lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

3 I found tlhIngan with a lower case /i/ in the dictionary. Do you me to send a screenshot?

I don't know what you are referring to. So, sure, post a link to the image here. (You may need to put it in a google drive file or post it on Pinterest or use some other file sharing site.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

4 Do I use English punctuation the same way in tlhIngan Hol?

Basically. We know very little about punctuation in Klingon, but we aren't writing with Klingon characters anyway. Klingon actually works pretty well without any punctuation.

Separating the sentences is helpful. Some people put a new sentence on a new line. More commonly, many Klingonists will put a period to make the separation clear. Question marks and exclamation points can also be used where appropriate.

It's rare to see commas in Klingon, but sometimes it can make things a little clearer. For example, if you have a list of complex noun phrases, commas can make it much easier to identify the beginning and end of each noun phrase. Duolingo uses a lot more commas than you might find in other Klingon materials. Since learners may not be as familiar with how to identify phrases, clauses, and vocatives, we often use commas to make it clearer for learners.

You may also see colons or semicolons in some specific circumstances. There is no reason that those punctuation marks need to be used, commas could be used just as easily. The punctuation in those circumstances are just used as a type of tradition.

Since we are writing with Roman letters, it seems appropriate to use English punctuation, but since it is less needed, we use it less in Klingon.

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