Leagues turned me into a person I wasn't. (My story of cheating to get to the top)
I started Duolingo about 3 months ago. My target language was Japanese and I was genuinely working hard to master it. I never cared about the leagues. I kept getting promoted and demoted constantly but I really didn't care. I just kept doing my thing.
In the beginning, the lessons were very easy and quick. They took like 3 mins tops. So I got XP quite easily and advanced to the gold league. That's when some wires in my brain misfired and went "Hey this is actually pretty easy. I should aim for the top!".
Now, to keep my top position, I kept doing the easy exercises which were the Japanese letters. Before I even knew it, I wasn't even learning anything. I would keep checking notifications and everytime I found out I lost my spot and someone passed me, I would go REEEEEEE and would start doing a bunch of those japanese alphabet lessons. And I would do it so fast that each exercise would take under a minute.
I would spend my days in anxiety constantly reloading the league page. Note I was completely fluent in the Japanese (hiragana) alphabet and there was literally no use in doing the Japanese alphabet lesson again and again except for XP grinding. I finally got promoted to the sapphire league and this was when I got greedy. I wanted to be in first place and get the gold chest. So I XP grinded japanese alphabets and ended up in 1st place. Note there were six more days for the league to end.
I completely forgot about the league as I was hosting some birthday parties etc. One fine day I opened Duolingo only to find out THAT I WAS IN 26TH POSITION. I was flabbergasted. "How would I ever make it to the top..." I checked the time remaining AND IT SAID 10 HOURS MORE. (Insert stressed out anime character face where eyes are blacked out)
I then resorted to... Well... Unfair methods. I called my friend, gave her my email and password, and told her to finish a course for me. (She knew the Japanese alphabets too) So we both started XP grinding. We were slowly climbing up the ranks. I knew what I was doing is wrong, and that duolingo was for learning, not for leagues and stuff. But the league system turned me into a greedy idiot. After a while my friend got tired and stopped.
It was 4 am in the morning. I was in 11th place. If you were to walk into my room now, you would go WTH and nope the hell out. I was huddled in my blanket hyperventilating and sweating, staring at my screen. Robotic voices would echo in the dark room saying "a… ka…shiro…" (Japanese alphabets) and trumpets going PAAPAAAAA as I was vigorously grinding XP doing the very first lesson over and over again. It didn't take long to jump to 7th place.
On the side, me and my friend were texting and joking about how Oana would see me and say "Who the hell is this person? They appeared out of nowhere and started bulldozing everyone out of the way". (Oana was the girl in 3rd place I think)
In no time, I passed Oana. We were also joking about how how Anders.P (The guy in 1st place) would now start hyperventilating anime style.(Yeah we're weebs).
Now I needed to do nearly 30 more exercises to pass Anders. So I continued my thing while simultaneously scripting an epic XP sword battle between me and Anders with my friend.
After a while of vigourous lingoing, I finally made it to the top and WAS HYPED. But soon the hype wore off. I wasn't satisfied. What did I do? I literally just cheated. What would I do with all those lingots? Huddle in a little cave hunched over a pile of lingots, creepily laughing like a witch HEEEHEEEEHEEEE while I slowly lick the lingots and put them into my stash? Facepalms
I literally didn't learn a single thing from the past 2 weeks. I was just obsessed with the leagus. I'm not happy with myself. Yes I got the lingots. What can I spend it on? LITERALLY NOTHING. It's one of the most useless virtual currency.
I don't even want something that I cheated to get.
I always dreamt of a world where no one cheated... And now, I myself became a cheater. [Insert You became the very thing you swore to destroy meme]
There were a few more hours left. I was completely disappointed in myself and didn't even care anymore. I was maybe 15 XP above Anders. I gave up. If I wanted to, I could get more XP and make sure he wouldn't pass me for the next few hours. But I didn't. I told my friend to never ever XP grind for me ever, and to log out immediately. She was like WHAT THE HELL GURL ALL MY HARD WORK TILL NOW WAS FOR NOTHING [Insert This whole operation was you're idea meme]
So much for nothing.
I switched off my phone and just went to bed. I woke up today to see that the league ended with me in 2nd place. Congrats Anders.
I got a few lingots. Like 30 or so. I expected the chests to have something like a month free membership or something. No. They had lingots. I got flipping lingots! The single most useless virtual currency in the whole world! I DON'T WANT ANY LINGOTS! SEEING THEM MAKES ME FEEL LIKE AN ANIME ANTAGONIST WHO IS AFTER ALL THE RICHES IN THE WORLD.
I swore to never open the league page again. I wish there was a way to opt out. Petition to Duolingo to remove the league system or at least give users an option to opt out.
Leagues turned me into a person I wasn't.
Edit: My friend asked me "why not just forget about it and drop in rank and come back to the bronze league"
Well because that's like losing. I don't like losing. That's just how I am. I'm not saying this in an egoistic way. If only there was an option to opt out, it would be like "Hey I'm kinda not interested in these leagues stuff so I'm quitting bye". But instead I have to sit through the pain of watching myself slowly drop... Rank after rank. It's truly painful for a person like me.
It's kinda hard for me to openly admit all of this. And I know there are people like me out there who are going out of their peaceful way and living an anxiety filled life only to prevent themselves from falling in rank.
I seriously hope Duolingo gives us the opt out option someday.
Edit 2: Guys please stop giving me useless lingots. They're just adding to the stash in the cave.
Edit 3: Some friends are confused about the reason I wrote this post. NOTICE ME SENPAI cough cough I meant notice me Duolingo. Please add the opt out option. There are people who don't want to disable public profile features just to disable the leagues.
Edit4: Please please no more lingots please. My cave is filled with them. It doesn't even have space for me to live anymore! (high-five if you read the whole thing and got the joke) 23 lingots? I'll give them away to 23 random commenters then.
Also I realised I've been spelling league wrong this whole time. Pleese Exsqueese my horribel engles . Jeez I had to correct like a 100 leagues...
Edit 5: This message is for a few salty ahem I meant confused people only. The rest of you, have a wonderful day mwah!
Firstly, I'm not begging for sympathy. (Sobs Why are some people so negative wahhh) Also, I'm not blaming leagues. Why would I shift blame. I myself am not a perfect person. Why would I want to deliberately bring my cheating story out into the open and tell everyone? I'm just telling my story. I narrated this story mainly because:
- Don't cheat in leagues. It's pointless. Actually, leagues themselves are pointless.
- Here's my story that nobody asked for.
- Opt out option PLEASE DUOLINGO WAHH NOTICE ME. I meant... Notice all of us. Notice the community please.
And I'll change the title from "Leagues made me into a person I wasn't" to something else. Because a lot of people are thinking I'm sitting in my cave like HEEHEEHEE LEMME SHIFT THE BLAME ON TO THE LEAGUES BECAUSE I AM A PERFECT PERSON AND I'M NOT GREEDY AT ALL. C'mon let's be honest. We all have flaws. I have flaws too. And I'm greedy too. (Not for lingots though). There was always a greedy side in me. (Not proud)
I wanted this to be an impacting post. But some are digging into every literal word and meaning and are jumping to conclusions. Yes people! I am greedy. And I'm not proud of it. Still fixing it. Lol stop taking stuff so seriously please.
I'm not a great writer and I don't know how to write something without offending at least a few people. This edit (edit 5) probably offended a few people. Sorry. I'm not a great writer. To make my post as non offending as possible, I had to rewrite stuff a million times and edit it a billion times. I'm not being salty.
It's like 4am and I don't have the energy to rewrite this edit to offend no one. Sorry peeps. And my grammar... Sorry. I'm not an expert. Please don't mind edit 5. It's just a small message for a few salty people.
It would be nice if someone could suggest a better title. I'm not a writing expert so any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Also, thank you all for the wonderful support! Mwah!
Okay bye no more edits promise.
Lol. Cheater! Kudos on a funny well written story at least. Your penance shall be giving away your ill gotten gains and learning something for real on Duolingo. Now go forth and sin no more.
I enjoyed the writing too. It was an entertaining read, although it seems more like satire than reality.
Yeah I kinda have a habit of writing even the most serious things in a humour filled way. I like making people laugh. Consequences? No one takes me seriously anymore lol
MannuBunnu, you can still be in the leagues and learn. Just don't get obsessed with them. Do lessons that give you progress in the tree, do lessons that up your crown level by one, then go on to get a different skill up to the next level. Try go get the whole bottom part of the tree golden, then you can do timed practice in those skills. When you are able to get 20 XP and beat the clock, move on to another skill. You'll be learning and earning enough XP to keep you in the silver or bronze league. Just have fun learning and see where that gets you. Happy duo-ing!
Remember that cheating means you are becoming a bad person and a bad person is a person who only cares about winning
Brava mannu! Just goes to show that cheats only cheat themselves and gain nothing. Hope you're enjoying Duo again, keep learning.
True. I gained nothing by cheating. It's just a waste of time. Imagine how many actual lessons I could have completed if I concentrated on learning instead of leagues.
Good job on stopping um, cheating. I just got the leagues and it's freaking me out. I compare myself to other people a lot, and the leagues are NOT HELPING!!!!! It makes me feel like I should be the best at my language, I should be getting into the highest leagues. It's really hard for me to concentrate on actually learning. Also, sorry, I'm not trying to complain, I love Duo, but I'm just hoping that staff will see this or something.
Same sigh I really want duo staff to see this and do some major changes related to leagues and clubs. (Low key wants clubs back)
They hired a new Education Science specialist or something or other a few months back and what useful improvements to the learning method have we seen?
I think they could be accessed on iphone. I know very little about them. They are groups you could create at any time and invite others to join them. That's all I know and I want them back, whatever they are
it was like a miniature duolingo facebook with literal communities helping each-other learn, it was probably more like twitter.
I'm also in the gold league and I'm in 4th place. Should I do anything special
About those lingots you despise....(holds bag open to receive...) But wait! Someone once said "lingots are a karmic burden"....I will help remove this burden from you.....(holds bag right under your nose...)....But then again....nah! Not right to interfere with someone's karma! Suffer my friend, suffer.... ❛¿❛
The leagues are a bit like the seven layers of hell, probably also invented by Catholics to make you feel bad about yourself!
Wow! I predict that you have just inspired a new duolingo meme.
I wish there was a way to opt out. Petition to Duolingo to remove the leauge system or at least give users an option to opt out.
I upvoted your thread in the hopes that some contributors might see it. I agree that an opt-out would be nice.
This is my third week in a row in the league and it's a distraction. The first week I had it I was doing exercises like mad just to stay on top. I didn't do easy lessons or anything like that. I just did worked on what I'd normally work on, but it was causing such anxiety. I guess I was in an honest league because I stayed on top all week. I got my 20 lingots, advanced to the silver league, and that was that. The following week I was grouped with some serious leaguers. Within a couple of hours one guy had several thousand points. (I have no idea how that is done.) That's when I thought it would be better for me to ignore the league, so after that I don't pay much attention to it, but once in a while I notice it. It's a minor distraction at this point, but still a distraction.
The only way I know to turn it off is to disable all public profile features, which I don't want to do. I agree that it would be nice to have a separate opt-out function for the league.
Yep it sure is a distraction. I want language learning to be a peaceful journey, not an anxiety filled one. And yes, I don't want to disable public profile features either. Even if it's a small distraction, it's still getting in my way.
My curiousity is getting the best of me. I can't help but think "Oh god I came so far until the sapphire league. Just one more league left. I wonder what's after that. Is there a secret diamond league? Or some kind of prize? What do I do? Should I just forget about it?" It's just like they say. Curiosity killed the language learner. lol
If there was an opt out option in the very beginning, it wouldn't have caused me so much trouble.
There is a way to opt-out, as I explained above. But it has some negative effects as well, which you'd have to weigh against keeping it.
Yes there are more leagues up to Ruby. I am in Ruby, the last one?you wrote this 2 days ago,. so they have different pools with each there own leagus, because the people i was with and "befriended " are not in the 50 i was in before. And i wonder how people do 2000 lingots a day.
I tried leagues and it is true. Leagues increase appetite for XPs. You are competing with persons you don't know, they are different each week and you don't have any common with them.
I really hate this impersonal competition! Poor Anders won, but you cannot even tell him a Congratulations! It is really addictive, you cannot concentrate on your own progress, but you always take a look at the leaderboard, you cannot write even one phrase of your own, you cannot ask anybody about a subject on the language and have a quick answer, unless you write it here and expose yourself to critics of the entire Duolingo community, you cannot challenge a person who is your peer and finally you become greedy. This is a real story. Duolingo is addictive. Gamification without limits is the worst option that an educational app can have! I want clubs back! I created a petition a month ago and it is still open:
Please vote and comment!
Wow, it's like I wrote this entire post. I've been doing leagues for 5 days now. I'm in the Silver league. I am stressed. I am extremely competitive person and this is consuming everything. I'm not learning at my usual pace as I used to. The ~snail pace~ as you guys say. I hate rushing things. And of course I cheated by doing way too many lessons, stories, practices like crazy and I don't feel proud of it, because it was all for XPs, not actual knowledge. I don't even care about XP, not until the leagues started. I used to make 300-500 XP daily, now I'm doing 3200!!! I just want to see what will happen when you get to the end of it all.
So in my understanding when you get to the last league you just get Lingots? Is that it? Nothing else? Like maybe, a Badge of Honor? a Certificate of Doing The Most, that I can show to my mom and say, See!! I'M DOING SOMETHING WITH MY LIFE, MOM! Or does this thing start all over again from Bronze... like some kind of Sysiphus-nightmare-loop? Is there a point to it? I'm wondering. I'm going insane. This is madness.
I was put into the leagues one week before you (I'm now in Gold -- Silver ended last week). After the initial flurry in bronze league --- where I found that the top contender was managing to rack up a few thousand point, but with stats like only two or three days in their streak -- I took a look at the makeup of the other people in my league. As far as I can tell, you share nothing in common with the people in your starting league; you've just all "started" at the same time. When you're promoted, you're also in a mix of people.
In the middle of that period, I went to read forum discussions, and tried disabling this through the privacy settings, but this has other consequences in displaying your progress. (And, I also took a look at DUOME, since they started disabling the display of levels -- I can only still see levels on one iOS device that is running old versions under an older operating system; unfortunately I can't go back to that, because Russian and Chinese aren't supported in that version of the app.)
In the silver level I looked through the other participants, and saw that a larger proportion of them were longer time users, judging by the streak lengths and number of languages, although very few were studying the same mix of languages.
My conclusion, for me, is that there was some advantage to participating in the league (for now), but that I'd probably settle into one of the levels based on the mix of users and my default pace. It's not going to be Bronze, because there are too many beginners who get easily sucked into doing what the original poster did. Duo is probably doing those folks the biggest disservice.
In the gold league, at least I can tell that the person at the top is doing the work to get through the XP (he's currently at 1682 XP). I'm curious to advance to Sapphire, if the pace doesn't get crazy. If I can't easily maintain it, I'll drop back to a comfortable level (guessing this is gold for me).
You do get an achievement badge that you made sapphire.
The only reason that this works for me is that when they added new content to the French course, I decided to work through these slowly for the new vocabulary. I've been at level 25 there for a few years. During the earlier period, I was able to use the "Fluency" level to gauge performance. This was controversial, because many people found it discouraging to only be at 65-70% fluency, and your level decayed if you didn't keep working at the language, but it was actually useful. But at that time, the only way I could get DUO to add more advanced vocabulary content was by doing spates of 200-300 XP per day for a few days. (This was when I was at levels around 17, but had completed the tree.) So, for me, going through the (newly appeared) unfinished levels in French is working OK for now.
In Chinese, the random practice is improving my recognition of written characters. (And, if nothing else, my speed inputting Cyrillic characters and Chinese characters has improved.)
But, in general, I agree with others that the problem of the leagues is that you have nothing in common with the other folks in your group(s), and no advantages from the way they are constructed.
For me, as for many others, Duolingo is a way to study languages on your own, and at your own pace. That doesn't seem well fulfilled by the current implementation of leagues.
P.S. Is there any way to remove someone you are "following" -- I seem to have added someone by accident.
haha, nice. Same results. Got to the top of Ruby, 1st place, and got.......... nothing. Yes, it is like the myth of Sisyphus. Now Ruby has renewed/refreshed and I'm down at the very bottom!!
I don't think that obsessing over the app is the same as cheating. Some people don't have anything better to do and can spend a lot more time on it than I do. I didn't even notice that I was in a league until I got to gold. And I did get obsessed last weekend with finishing in the top three. However, I'm backing off to a more normal rate and I am loving the fact that I feel more comfortable with Spanish to the point where I can conjugate a simple sentence properly.
I’ve been in Ruby for a couple of months now ... and as of this week, there are two empty spaces on ahead. No idea whether new leagues might have been added or it’s just my iPad hyperventilating owing to all the XPs I’ve been doing this week. For of course I want to find out what’s at the end of this freaking league rainbow thing (sad, miserable face)!! Oh, and I have built up a stock of 4783 lingots. Gonna put them in Gringotts Wizard bank for the dark side to steal ...
Duolingo has added more leagues! After ruby league comes emerald, then amethyst, then pearl. There's still at least 2 more levels after that. However, now that I made it to pearl level, I realize that a lot of people are doing things just to get points and up their xp. I did re-read all the stories in spanish and each of those gave me 22-24 points for each story I did over again. After I did 20 stories and went back to my learning page and my xp and where I was on the list of 50 jumped up because it added all those points from re-doing the stories at one time so my score went from (for example, 1200 to 1660). so there are higher league levels now, but at some point, while in those higher levels, you will realize that the folks at the top of the board have impossible amounts of points. On amethyst somehow the guy in the #1 position had over 20,000 pts for just that week! Having 'fun' competition isnt fun when the 'winners' are cheaters. Competition isnt fun when the only way to 'win' is to waste time. that's time where I could have actually been learning!
Maybe it was good for something to see that you were cheating yourself the most. It could be that you also think of this experience in other situations outside of Duolingo and have taken something from it.
It is always good to reflect on why and why you are doing something and what your real goals are. Does what you are doing really help to advance your own goals?
You can also learn how many things there are and how many things there will be in life that will dissuade you from your own goals. They are tempting, perhaps promise a lot and allude to our reward system. So it's always good to pause and wonder whether I'm really getting closer to my goal or just wasting my time.
I like leagues because it causes me to maintain my learning. Duolingo is free and all the hours I put into it has showed whenever I hold small conversations with spanish speakers. I believe if I continue to do it in a few months I will be able to hold my own in spanish
Here's my advice to you and other people who feel the league option is stimulating the addictive parts of the brain. Basically, it's designed to. It's created with the purpose of igniting the competitive nature in people, and that releases dopamine. For some people, that motivates them. For other people predisposed to addictive behaviors, it becomes compulsive, and in turn creates anxiety. Since there really is no inherent value to the leagues with the gain (as you pointed out, lingots are pretend), you have to find a different goal that channeling those addictive behaviors, will actually benefit. That way, the payoff will be as rewarding as the chemicals in the first place. I would suggest creating learning goals, since those are much more beneficial than leagues, and make you feel good about yourself. Make the goal that you want to be able to talk about a certain subject, or read an article on something with fluency. Devote your energy to that, and when you see the progress building, and then the final achievement of being able to do the goal you set, it'll be much more rewarding, AND you would have learned something. Just keep reminding yourself why you got on Duolingo in the first place. It's nothing to feel ashamed of that you have difficulty moderating your behaviors when it comes to the leagues. Your self-awareness is important. It's not practical to tell you to just "stop looking at it and get over it". You need to replace it with something equally as rewarding to the pleasure centers to your brain, just in a healthy way. Just keep working on that, and reorient your goals so that it becomes healthier and more useful, and you'll start feeling better about yourself. [Steps off soapbox] So I guess both the French and Psychology college courses pay off with this site.
This is REALLY good advice. Self-awareness is actually a very valuable thing, so maybe that's Mannu's real reward.
I can only guess that I don't have an addictive personality type - at least not where Duolingo is concerned. I noticed the leagues. When I'm done my exercises for the day, I do tend to look and see what my rating is. I go "yay" if I went up, and "aw" if I went down. But that's it. It in NO way affects what I actually accomplish on Duolingo. What I accomplish in Duolingo is entirely based on how much time I have to do new lessons on that particular day. (And I don't go over old lessons, ever. I'll do that when I've run out of new ones.)
I don't hate leagues as much as many people here, but your story was so entertainingly written, and so filled with Bollywood special effects!! I loved your post. I wanted to give lingots but you asked us not to :)
i gave 28 lingots and i am broke :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) lol
You've been very brave and very honest to admit to all of this. It's a bit like an addiction until you realise what's happening and then JUST STOP. Last night I was first in the Gold league and won it and yet this morning when I woke up I was 30 something and had dropped right down. It actually doesn't matter at all - it truly, really doesn't. It's an artificial thing created by goodness-knows-who for goodness-only-knows what reason.
Turn off the league and the leader boards and resolve from now to just learn your language for its own sake and to enjoy the learning for you and yourself. Honestly, it's much better and much more natural and fulfilling.
Otherwise you'll drive yourself mad! Clara
If you go to your settings, you can change the privacy so that you're no longer participating in leagues! It makes the league disappear on the web, and the tab disappears in Android at least. It does however keep you from using Duome also, but that might be a small price to pay in your case.
Good news... it does not disconnect. I was also worried about it but I disliked seeing the leagues I was willing to chance it.
So I set my profile to private. A few days later I made my account public again and I could again see my friends (and the league).
I now keep my account normally set to private, and then go to public to see my friends.
True. I personally don't use Duolingo with friends and generally don't add strangers on the internet, so it wasn't an issue for me.
I'm not sure what you're on about, but I can guarantee you that doing what I described will remove the leagues (the entire tab on phone).
Mentioned by Wondertje: What is Duome?
Pardon my ignorance, but even though I am in the Ruby league, I am a newbie.
How'd I get to Ruby so fast? In the early days, since most lessons are "just fifteen minutes," I soon found myself doing multiple lessons a day until I found myself wasting (? - poor choice of words) six hours a day. So, yeah, I suppose it was "addicting."
Since, I try to average four to six of those "lessons" a day, trying to keep my time on Duo under two hours a day. One is, trying to curb my own competitiveness. Another is, I have other things to do in a day. But most of all, burnout was setting in.
I agree with many that the league competition system is inherently unfair. The language you pick - and your previous familiarity with that language - determines how many "points" you get in a day, in addition to how much time you put in. (I've seen enough differences between Spanish and German alone - I can only imagine another language where one might have to learn an entirely new alphabet)
The great irony is, while I am never near the top of the Ruby league, I seem to remain sufficiently far away from the "demotion zone," so I guess I'll remain Ruby for the foreseeable future.
Which begs another question: While there are clearly some anomalous scores in the top three positions of the Ruby league, is it really affecting the rest of us?
Yes, I suppose I care, but does it really matter?
Hi MannuBunnu, Thanks for your post. I found it funny, honest, but also realistically sad! I've only been doing Duolingo since March and I don't remember if they even had the leagues when I first started. I guess I'm old enough to not worry about making it to the top and moving up to the next league. But I also don't like getting "fear of demotion" notices either. When I made it to the next league up (Silver to Gold) I immediately went from being in the top 10 down to the very bottom of the list. That doesn't make you feel good either. I don't mind a little friendly competition to add to the challenge of learning, But I don't think Duolingo's strategy of leagues is really encouraging learning either, and may actually give the opposite effect.
If they keep leagues, I wish they had a league for each language - so at least I would become familiar with members working on the same language skills.
I also agree that the Lingots seem worthless. All I can use them for is to buy Idioms (which I've done) and Flirting (not too interested). Perhaps Duolingo could let us shop for accessories for our owl. (Like Word Chums allows you to buy gear for your chum). Perhaps we would be able to purchase our choice of what a trophy would look like. I hear people are upset with not having a Golden Owl. That could be another option.
Ah- the lessons we learn - in life and in languages. I believe if you really have the "ganas" desire - to learn - you don't need all these props. But I wouldn't mind some cute outfits for my owl! :-)
You can use older versions of Duolingo to avoid the Leagues (look them up on Google, not on APK Mirror because they only have one-year-old versions which look very strange at the moment). Duo has dropped support for clubs in its earlier versions, so there are no longer clubs. I'm currently using version 4.10.2 for Android; there are only 3 main tabs (Learn, Friends, Shop) and I don't have to care about the Leagues, though I feel this version is quite slow. By implementing Leagues, Duo makes itself alike to competitive online games where users strive for rankings, not for real learning. This reminds me of the obsession of getting higher positions when I played these games 5 years ago. Luckily now I've grown out of them. Seriously, they need to bring back and improve some of the club's interesting and efficient features (Use this word, Listen and Answer, Practise in a context,...) Though they only used Google Translate as a helper and did not provide any other grammartical or spelling checks, these features really worked for me (and I think for others, too) as I got corrected a lot by other learners.
In my opinion I don't think this is cheating.. what if you were so good at japanese that every skill felt like an alphabet review. Would you be cheating by reviewing your Japanese tree with lightning speed? There are plenty people that make new accounts to grind out a tree they already know.. and while this isn't really fair they're doing what leagues is encouraging: endless practice to grind exp. I bet after all this grinding those hiragana and katakana will never leave your head haha whereas for me I've long forgotten them. So this struggle of yours isn't useless..maybe kind of dumb though, but maybe I should grind those lessons non stop so I'll never forget.
Doing easy lessons to gain xp quickly is absolutely cheating herself. It's in the spirit of the Leagues, however, and a main reason that many people (myself included) dislike them.
Having a friend grind easy lessons while you are grinding easy lessons? Yes, that is cheating.
I think that in the long run, the OP will see the benefit of doing the hirogana a thousand times. She will never forget them*, and that's important. I studied Japanese about 15 years ago and there are only a few hirogana that I can now recognize. It does fade, but I also didn't review it numerous times.
*Assuming that the OP continues studying Japanese for the next little while to transfer short-term learning into long-term.
Repetition is very useful to get in to long term memory. I have also found that from using the earlier lessons again recently that speech recognition was now included on the app and I did the very easy lessons several times simply to do the couple of speech recognition parts of the lesson and not just to get more xp in leagues! I want to learn not just to get xp to beat other people I don't know in a league!
Duo: please, much much more speech recognition in even the early lessons please!
I sincerely doubt that the number of lessons people are cramming into their time on Duolingo just to stay in the top ten is leading to much retention. It's like studying for a test and then forgetting it all.
But then your practising hirigana woud be reaching your goal and for MannuBunnu it wasnt.
(Says in same accent and tone as Seinfeld's Soup Nazi):
NO LINGOTS FOR YOU! (Well, I mean, you said you don't want any ...)
(Resumes normal written voice)
I did enjoy reading this post though and commend you for your bravery and honesty in sharing your experience with Duolingo Leagues.
I'm a competitive person myself, but trying not to get too hung up on Leagues. Because of the way I study, I do often manage to accumulate 200-300 XP per day, which can get you a fair way in the lower leagues, at least. But I'm trying to take the same attitude to Leagues that I already take to the Friends Leaderboard: I'm just going to focus on my goals, and study at the pace at which I feel I can learn best. If I happen to top the leaderboard or my league for the week in the process, well cool. But if I don't, so what?
If there is one phrase that sums up your experience, and Duolingo Leagues in general, I think it is this one from the opening verse of the Book of Ecclesiasties: "all is vanity and vexation of spirit". The chase for Lingots is vain in both senses of the word (it can make you vain to reach the top, but ultimately it's all IN vain). And it really does nothing in the long run but vex the spirit. It's something I never felt I needed and would be perfectly happy without. Sounds like you'll be a lot happier without Leagues too, OP.
5 'honest' lingots for you, which you have earned for writing a brave and honest confession. If you feel guilty about the ones you didn't deserve, why not pass them on to Duolingers who are worthy of them?
That's not the fault of the leagues. You have free will. Leagues didn't turn you into a different person: you are that kind of person, and this was simply an opportunity for you to discover that about yourself. Not trying to make you feel bad, just trying to help you learn something about yourself - it's up to you to change that if you don't like what you see.
But it's easier for her to blame the leagues and not her precious self, right?
That is so rude. She wasn't blaming anyone. She just wants Duolingo to see this post. Did you even read the whole thing or did you just jump to conclusions? If she wanted to, she didn't even have to write this post. And moreover, doing hiragana over and over again is not cheating. What she did is a very very minor thing. Everyone does mistakes you know? Including you...
People make mistakes, not do them. Read the title of her post - she clearly blames the leagues for her transgressions. If she didn't write this post, we would save our precious time for extra lesson, so no harm would be done. Cheating is definitely not a minor thing, and blaming it on the league, claiming they've turned the saint into a cheater, is outrageous.
No reason to be so rude. I think her goal was to rather provide a cautionary tale. You're making her out as a monster!
Well, look at the world today! A cheater is defended and cheered and even admired for providing the so-called cautionary tale! Those, who dare not to agree with league-haters are rude. About monster - your words, not mine.
Mannu, your post literally made my day. Just last Thursday I discovered something new on my Duolingo page -- you guessed it -- LEAGUES! Well, of course, I started out in the Bronze League with my usual 30 points a day in the only language I am studying on Duolingo -- Italian. I was not in the promotion zone. Then I decided to try to get myself promoted to the next league -- Silver. I did several extra practices at the level I'm working at, and climbed up into the promotion zone (top 20) with a pretty high ranking on the last day so as to be able to get a good night's sleep. (I live in Europe and had no intention of staying up all night to compete with folks in American time zones.) Well, the next morning I checked my Duolingo page and discovered that I had done it -- I was now in the Silver League!!! YAY!!! However, I have also discovered that in the Silver League the promotion zone is the top 15; I suspect that in the higher leagues the promotion zone is even smaller, which must really fire up the competition. Also, in the Silver League there is also a demotion zone. BOOO!!! Being a former teacher, in matters of learning I firmly believe in "slow and steady wins the race." However, I suspect that if I just continue with my usual pace of 3 exercises a day (30 points -- plus some bonus points for getting correct answers) I will fall into the demotion zone, and by next week may find myself back in the Bronze League again. BOO HOO!!! (Oh well, at least in the Bronze League there's nowhere to get demoted to!) Then I read your post, and had a good laugh at your "hiragana marathon" (which probably helped to reinforce the hiragana so well that you will never forget them) and at your getting your friend to help you rack up points (well, that didn't help you learn Japanese). When I stopped laughing, I realized that I too could get caught up in the League "Rat Race" and lose my focus on my real goal, learning Italian. I also realized that I am obsessive about -- and maybe even "addicted" to -- my streak, and that I should probably put that into perspective. "Arigatou"and "ganbatte"! (Sorry about the Romaji -- my keyboard doesn't do hiragana.)
I loved this post! What a fun read. Thank you! For the cause, I'll publicly announce here to Duo that I 2nd the motion for a feature to opt out of the leagues.
I completely understand your mentality with respect to wanting to win and the twist in your gut watching yourself fall in rank.
I went back to just doing my lessons for me and found myself holding steady in the Saphire league. But I don't care.
At least... That's what I tell myself.
P.S. I didn't give you a lingot. :)
Yup. There is help out there, it's called Leagues Addictions Anonymous. Sorry, I couldn't help myself :-). Anyway, I am proud of you, since you are on your way to a full recovery. Giving you some more useless lingots which you have no use for.
I immediately realized that Leauges wasn't for me. Because, as many here have already said with their own experiences, one would lose sight of the own goal.
I need my own time and it takes a lot of patience. And then I'd rather make progress, like a snail, but continuously. I too will reach the goal at some point and hopefully have learned a lot.
I have switched off the leagues and don't miss the friends list either, because I can't do anything else with them except see their XP progress. I cannot contact them to encourage each other, nor can I follow their postings, which may contain many good tips for learning. It's no added value for me.
Duomo will continue to work for me and that is helpful.
Otherwise, I have my own competition https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32478531 , which I have described here, which really says something for me about my own progress.
eXuSE mE chEaTiNg i sAw rEeEEe (but legit that took some bravery to write)
That's just seemed like a fairy tale for naughty children x') I hope that Duo will soon give up the idea of taking everyone into that creepy competition... -_-
Loved reading it, sucked me right in when I started reading, you should be a writer !
I don't understand why people do leagues to excess. But even more, I don't get why people don't want to be members of a league. I assume I am enrolled in a league, but I have no knowledge of it because I never paid any attention to it. Frankly, I don't even know how to check my league status.
I am glad I read this post from MannuBumnu. It was well-written and hilarious. Even his user name is hilarious!
Ah Mannu, so entertained by your post !
Loved the bit when your "addictive behaviour" led you to enrol your mate into piling in more xp… for you.
And then she got annoyed when you came to your senses and stopped the whole entreprise !
It's not so much the "cheating " that amused me, it's the frantic effort put into it.
The goal as elusive as trying to fill a bucket with holes in the bottom...
Great story, thanks.
"But even more, I don't get why people don't want to be members of a league." Yep
A friend told my you can get insane amounts of XP on Tinycards. That is how people reach 10,000XP+ per day. You can basically reach LVL 25 in 3 days, anyone who chooses to, very easily. It makes the scoring system completely meaningless.
You don't really cheat well.
We're not even learning the same language as those on the league, so what's the point of competing? Also, I agree! Duolingo should really make some use for the lingots. what's the point of having them except for buying 2 bonus skills( only one some courses) and power-ups. Which one of them is a power-up MEANT to gain more lingots! I like learning on this website but it seems that Duolingo is obsessed with making up worthless competitions and achievements rather providing more advanced materials for learners.
At least you were honest about it. Most people wouldn't have come out and admit that they cheated.
Luckily I haven't gone to this extreme in the leagues (yet), but I find myself getting competitive in something that is not a competitive sport. i.e. language learning.
Lol... this sounds like something I would have done when I was 13. I remember cheating to pull up the ranking of my website in some list back then. Unfortunately, at 13 I was doing even more useless things, like trying to learn the orcish language Black Speech. Man I do not miss being an adolescent. I had the most ridiculous ideas. I am 30 now. I have lived through too many internet addictions to fall for this one now. Hahahaha. Addictions are boring as hell, really. The worst thing is when people are addicted to money and power. Thankfully, lingots convey absolutely zero power so you learned a lesson.
A good story, thanks. I don't care about the league, so it never matters which place I take it it. Since the closure of clubs, we have transferred some friends to a Dsicord club of Duolingers, where we have more fun without competing. Forget the league, it's meaningless, we are not racing horses for chrissake ...
I recognize the pointless greed that this game also put me in. It distracts completely from the reason why I use duolingo! What is worse, this whole system was introduced to me as something better than the pre-existing forum, where we could chat in the foreign language. Please Duo, bring this back, because not only lingots, but also followers are pointless if there is no way to communicate with them!
clapclapclapclapclap 10/10 honesty. I would give you a lingot if it weren't for the fact they're worth dirt, and that you don't want them.
I sensed that stress in your funny way of writing. I have been there too, trying to do as many exercises as possible to stay on the top. I was in Switzerland on holiday when I just suddenly noticed that I was on number ten. I suddenly felt the desire to get on top and I continued doing exercises for four to five hours and I did not relax although I was supposed to have fun and stay calm. In the day time I was going to see Switzerland with family and as soon as we were back to hotel I would start duolingo, it went on for three day . I barely got any sleep. when we came back to Germany I was super tired . I won the first place but I did not even get 3000 lingots that were promised. my score was 2700 lingots before and just for a second it went to 5700 and next second it was back to 3000 , no idea why?? I felt cheated!! but the good part was i stopped doing shortcut tests to complete different topics but did full lessons.Although It was not a very satisfying thing to do as I did not pay much attention to what was learning, there was no time for a deep grasp. I was doing 40-50 exercises a day to get as many XPs as possible. But after winning the Ruby league I felt nothing because as soon as the league ended, and the second league begin somebody scored 300 XPs within a few minutes and had no clue how it happened. but after reading your article I was like ''Oh , That way''!!! until now I was thinking it was a healthy competition and people are so much motivated to learn something new and they are motivating you to do the same but now I do not want to participate in such stupid league anymore . I will continue doing hard work that I was always doing without paying attention to what ever was happening to my situation in league, as it turns out to be ..........!!!
Well, hats of to you for your bravery to accept your mistake and to tell your story in such an entertaining way. I really enjoyed reading it.
Wow, that story was so similar to my own, except with about ten times the drama. And I never really felt any anxiety. And I never got my friends to help cheat, nor did I grind the first skill over and over. Okay, maybe it isn't quite like my story, but parts certainly seemed familiar.
After having fallen off the wagon, so to speak, I came back to Duolingo at about the time the leagues were being introduced, and decided I would work towards both gilding the entire tree, and reaching the final league.
Without really realizing it at first, my decision to gild the tree from the top down aligned quite nicely with my desire to progress through the leagues, since "testing out" each skill for 20 XP a pop certainly flies by when you're just typing "Brot und Wasser" over and over.
Of course, eventually I hit the point of diminishing returns as far as XP is concerned. Somewhat shamefully, I decided to start gilding the reverse tree, which is something I plan to do anyway, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't embark on that endeavor early for the high XP alone.
In my defense though, I did it because I had made it to the sapphire league, and realized that the leagues where starting to affect my behavior. I yearned to relax on the couch with my grammar books instead of staring at the screen, but I could have read them cover to cover thrice over and it wouldn't have yielded even a single point of XP. The leagues began to feel like a loose tooth, since I was about 90% towards my goal, and they would continue to distract me until just bit the bullet and finished it.
I must say, despite my up and down experiences with the leagues, I actually quite like them now that I'm in the ruby league. The previous leagues were forgiving enough that you would have to have been comatose for the week to fall backward, but the ruby league is competitive enough that simply staying in it offers a nice, leisurely goal. Instead of having a daily goal, it offers more of a weekly goal, which gives a nice bit of flexibility about precisely when you use Duolingo.
Good on you for writing this! I got promoted to the next league without being first in the league. Do you get lingots if you're first? I couldn't figure out why they displayed lingots and where my lingots came from. But it didn't show I got any. Why are they giving us more lingots? They took away lingots from levels.
I've never cared enough to be in the top 5, but I believe that 3rd, 2nd and 1st place receive lingots.
Is that why I see lingots beside their names? Do you know how much? The people at the top of brass, had massive XP's and had lingots as well. I thought that was from doing crowns, but it mustn't be.
By the way, it is called bronze. :P
And yes, the top 3 do get lingots, before I realized I hated leagues I got into 2nd in bronze by doing tons and tons of stories, which I personally don't think hurted my learning but just wasn't the right pace for me. Anyway, my account didn't get the lingots immediately but after a while I did. And whatever league you were in, maybe there were cheaters, but I don't think you need to cheat to get into the top of the bronze league. Like I said, I got 2nd by doing mainly stories, and maybe one or two lessons each day to accompany it for that first week. At the end I had maybe 700+ XP? I don't quite remember.
One 'No Lingot' for you, as requested.
I fell for the same when I 'discovered' the leagues a couple of weeks after I started. The competitive side in me did rear it's head, I did go to Ruby and remain there (it's not hard, regular lessons do it and people are still dropping out all the time), but only study now and maintain my daily streak.
A second account / user is hardcore though, I did my own button mashing...
The streak, I guess, can be another form of competition, just like gathering flags. We just don't notice it because it takes longer to get there. So can posting in every possible new topic in the hopes that people will donate that worthless currency to them (not you, of course, but I see plenty of people who can't seem to help themselves from posting in almost everything. I can't help but think its just casting a wide net.)
I'd say you found something.
Most people are either ignorant that they harbor these things or know they have them, but choose to hide them from the world and pretend they are who they aren't. Knowing your faults is the first step to fixing them. It's part of growing.
We don't / can't fix all of our faults, of course, we have to accept some for what they are and for who we are, but you can do you best to fix the ones you yourself can't live with. - congratulations on your new you.
Thanks for opening up and Im glad you realized what you were doing and stopped doing it. Thats funny that you dont even want lingots now. I think this whole league thing is fascinating. Personnally for me I think the leagues are fun. Its amazing to me how many people are distracted by it and/or hate it. People need to CHILL...step back...and think about what is REALLY important in life. Beating a bunch of strangers that you dont even know for some useless lingots? Madness.
I also disabled the public profile to get out. During last few weeks I had way too much of time and I decided to break my promise to do only 20 XPs a day. And now even in ruby making only 20...25 a day (with those few extra points of getting too many correct answers in a row), I couldn't get back to lower. Besides, getting back to bronze would take weeks anyway.
By the way, out of these five, bronze should be the most valuable anyway – the first alloy humankind learned to use after all. ;)
Honestly though, trying to get to the top shouldn't matter to anyone, it just takes the fun out of learning a language. Cheating isn't a good thing either, but at least you came out and told the truth about this. After all, Duolingo isn't about trying to aim to the very top, it's about learning a language and having fun. I hope more people realize this and try to just have fun in learning again.
oh, the leagues got me too, but not to that extent I did 8000 points last week. but I didn't cheat, I did A LOT of timed practise. I think it has helped me recognise German at speed now. I don't want any lingots.
Dear Mannu, i just want to hug you and send you a lot of love.. :) Just go on .. People said here many good clever things, I don't need to repeat their wisdom. I've got to the Ruby , in "my smart way": I was doing the lessons on the languages easy for me, to get the number. I have quite a bunch of languages all together. Normally, the languages I'm not familiar with, I work hard. I read all the comments, searching for good info from moderators, and from all who know. That takes time.. :) This is a real learning. By "driving fast" on the highway of Brazileiro and Italiano, it was different kind of learning, quite worthy as well. In the same time, I was practicing my English. All the " would not have been working" and other complex verb forms, that doesn't come naturally.. ) Yes, everything is not perfect on Duo. They're on their way, trying things. Leagues it's just a game. Not even the most clever and useful one. But never mind ! :) Let's be humans, in a simple and positive way, let's communicate and help each other, when we can. I have so much appreciation for some mods, their patience, kindness and intelligence ! Wish you a good continuation, and all the best. And for all Duo people too !
For the first time in my long life I see an advantage in not being a competitive person.
Thanks for the cautionary tale! Will be ever vigilant against such stirrings in my psyche!
in this moment i realized a possible cheating in my silver league. I am on the 17th level, and on the 4th place now. During few minutes i did a round, got 10+4 XP. Until this period the leader (freshstarter, appr. 3700 xp) did more than 450 XPs... How?! i really would like to take this league away, but i could do only together with my frienlist (adblock). I like my friendlist, there is a healthy competition, we know each other and they never cheat! I am not interested in these pathetic leagues, especially there are a lot of cheaters. Its annoying so much.
Great post, and a great take on the new updates! Kudos to you for being self aware.
I think leagues are very fun, when you don't sweat like crazy and try your best at the language not for the lingots. I think if people got the choice then it would be better, and for some people the leagues motivate them and I'm one of those learners.
Thanks so much for sharing your story which is basically about addition and nothing to do with learning languages! Well done for having so much insight. I don't really understand the leagues thing at all - they just appeared from nowhere a few weeks ago. I do my one exercise a day as usual which brings me one step up my own learning ladder which is the only thing I am interested in. So it seems I stay around the middle of the bronze league every week which is fine by me - the more balanced life is, generally the happy I am. Learning Italian definitely stimulates lots of good chemicals in my brain for lots of reasons - I love that it's getting easier and I am making good steady progress. Hope you have found a way through this so you can still enjoy learning and making real progress. Thanks again for sharing your story. I am sure in the end Duolingo will take notice and come up with a better system. It is such a fab site and I feel very grateful to the people that designed it and continually improve it.
Thanks to this I'm disabling leagues by privatizing my account so i can learn at my own pace without trying to worry about what place I'm in with leagues.
MannuBannu - You wrote, "Leagues turned me into a person I wasn't." When I read that, I immediately thought, "No, Leagues brought out the kind of person you are".
But after reading all five edits, I think it's more accurate to say that Leagues brought out the kind of person you WERE." You learned something about yourself. You saw what you had done and had enough integrity to realize that that's not who you want to be.
I'd say you gained a huge profit from the whole experience. To hell with the lingots; you've rightly observed that they have no intrinsic value. Your profit was learning something about yourself, and about the kind of person you want to be.
Truth be told, it's not like the kind of cheating you did actually harmed anyone — well, except maybe you. I mean it was a dishonest thing to do, getting someone else to rack up points you hadn't earned yourself. Ultimately, dishonest behavior bounces back on those who commit it, whether they know it or not.
But doing a dishonest thing doesn't make you an essentially dishonest person. It doesn't mean you're a "bad person". A bad person wouldn't care. You care. You're a good person.
I'm sure your confession here served as a cathartic. And it earned you the respect of many of your fellow Duolinguistas.
Your post makes one realize, over and over again, why Buddhism exists. The western society has taught us that without competition there is no progress. And we have all fallen for the lie, believing that the human is perfectly analogical to the animal.
Good to know! One often feels like there is no resonance between him and other people.
This is the New Age, I guess. People dislike but they do not discuss. Which means that if I happen to be wrong, they simply dislike what I have written instead of trying to educate me with a sentence or two. The best part is that it's on the internet, and they'd probably all be silent in a real conversation, incapable of any plausible argumentation. :) Oh, what a wonderful world. I feel like the chef in a Monty Python sketch. Oh! it makes me mad. MAD!
Here's the kicker, though, feanoRfelagunD - why be attached to whether someone likes or dislikes your post without explanation? It doesn't matter either way. It just is. ;)
I really don't, I just expressed a thought that I thought deserved expression, but I can assure you that it does not bother me as much as the post would perhaps suggest. It was, again, just a way of expressing the thought, I would even say that from my point of view the end of the post is humorous. It's just a bit of fun, but of course it is a bit sad. I just wanted to point out that the Internet is very different from real life. In real life, you are who you are, and you therefore must argue with what you have. On the Internet it's very, very different. Anyway, I've decided that I will not participate in a discussion on the Internet any more, unless it's a discussion where people tend to argue and reach a conclusion together, learn from each other. I like people who are always ready to change even the deepest foundations of their being, if, of course, they happen to find out they have been wrong. So thanks for your answer, I will now try to avoid posts like this one, and cut off a finger or two if it happens again, like father Sergius. :D
I'm trying to figure out why someone would down vote you for that. And of course, they didn't put why. Just proves your point - they disliked but didn't bother to discuss! I see them as negative people spreading negativity. So of course I up arrowed to give you less of them. That's called spreading positivity. Nothing wrong with your post at all.
Like Kellyro77 mentioned, people can't just disagree? And if there's a disagreement, does it require that we hold a discussion? People may disagree and accept your opinion / belief, do you then also insist they subscribe to it as well?
In light of the Topic this post was under, sure, it's a story about one person's journey into a side of herself she may not have known existed, or at least not to the extent she discovered, but that doesn't mean we need to try and turn it into a therapy session for all.
And it also doesn't mean people like HalynaHurd get to come forward to condemn without even knowing the kind of person MannuBunnu is. Mannu already realized she made a mistake, that's why she wrote this up.
"I'm right, you're wrong". "Your way is right, my way is wrong". Let's just condemn everything and everyone. But what if some people just decide to choose not to take the bait, disagree, and move on? Then they just leave the person doing the shouting standing there in the street - shouting (usually pouting, but mostly shouting) hoping they, one day, realize what they are doing...
Of course you can disagree, feel free to disagree with me, dislike me, damn, whatever you'd like. However, the point of my post was that discussion would perhaps have been the better choice. For example, I might have a very strong argument supporting my point of view, one that is very difficult to refute. If I do happen to be in possession of such an argument, it is very possible that you would feel different about liking or disliking the post. So, if the post is too general to actually know whether it is worthy of a dislike or not, why dislike it?
There are no particulars. I could tell you about a biologist who created a vaccine and decided to not patent it, so that poor children could get it for charity money. He did not need competition for that. He decided to be a God and just give. And so he created order out of chaos, and even refused compensation for his work. I have heard of more than one person like that. I thought it was worthy of discussion under a post like this, as I do indeed believe it is connected to the topic.
However, I might have been wrong. Whatever.
Furthermore, I also disagree with this post, I don't like it, but I feel no need to dislike it. I chose to rather post my point of view. I have a terrible headache, so I find it difficult to achieve coherency. I must go now and get some fresh air, if it still exists.
@ddolgarus that wasn't quite the point of my post to feanoRfelagunD. I was just bantering buddhist philosophy with him, and really I didn't have anything against (or for) what he said. Was just pointing out his attachment to responses, which I found humorously ironic given his topic of buddhism.
As I have already said, I understand why you think that I am actually attached to the responses. However, I do not think that expressing my point of view about sth must necessarily entail attachment. If that were the case, I would probably rarely ever say anything. To elucidate, just yesterday I was out with a Muslim. She asked me about my point of view about the religion. I answered, of course. However, I couldn't care less about the religion.
In this case, I decided to speak of my own accord because I think the matter warrants discussion. However, I do not think that it must necessarily mean that I've been crying ever since, and I will continue shedding my tears until the end of time, whichever way it will go.
Buddha believed that each man or woman should figure out the truth for themselves. Yet he was still preaching to the people. It is a contradiction, and yet at the same time it isn't.
I thought the lie was that, to get true happiness, you have to buy, buy, buy.
I noticed the leagues were hijacking my goals as well - I set a pace of 30 xp a day with the Duo coach, but the leagues kept me spending way more daily time than I wanted!
Yeah, I feel this! I'm just getting back into German and I've set my goal to 50XP a day, but as I'm currently in the Bronze League there's plenty of people only getting 15XP a day. I feel like by virtue of my higher daily goal I'm kicking other people with different goals than mine out of the running when that shouldn't be the case at all. Slow language learning is still language learning!
Also, a not lingot to you!
You're only stopping one other person from advancing, and that's the way it's supposed to work: those who work hard (or cheat) advance, those who don't stay in bronze.
Yeah, I wish Duolingo did something to make things fairer, but it sounds to me like the way you did it was not that easy. I mean, finishing a course, even for a native speaker like your friends is still repetitive work. Honestly speaking, knowing a language doesn't really make it easier. It just makes it more boring. How does your friend not hate you now?
Yeah, your comment made me realize that all these people that are getting lingots from MannuBunnu are getting lingots with germs on them.
Everyone makes mistakes, good on you for owning up and correcting your behavior. I too have felt the pull of xp grinding in leagues, but luckily for me I could still use the practice on the basics.
If you feel bad having those lingots and want a good you for them I would recommend browsing the forums and giving them out to people who are newer and can probably make better use of them.
Best of luck with your learning and resisting the mindless grind.
wow....thanks for sharing, this league thing was gaining on me too but then i read your post. Now I know I should do what I have signed for. I will finish my Spanish lessons without bothering about the league. And someday (When I am done with my Spanish Lessons) I will learn Japanese and I will send you a Japanese thank you note.. Gracias Amigo...good luck
I'm enjoying it so far (without cheating, or intending to cheat), but your story well, that's the story of unfettered capitalism. Competition is or can be fun in sports and games but maybe Duolingo could introduce some Cooperation, or combine the two (like team sports?) Right now it's a bit like chickens peckin' chickens...or should I say owls pecking owls?
I do think that we really need the option to just not participate in the leagues. I don't think it's the leagues' fault that people feel the need to cheat, but I think the option to opt out would be much appreciated.
Wow! It takes a lot of courage to share something like this. Thank you for sharing your story and opinion, I was scrolling through comments and it seems many people agree. P.S. I wish we could get clubs back too...
I resonate with this!!!! i have too turned into a mindless person who only wants to WIN!! but i dont cheat, cheating just takes all the fun out of winning!!! anywho message me if you want some linglots....as she clearly explained i gots too many lol
Me too.I want some so I can transfer all of mine to my friend and when he opens his account and sees tons of lingots and be like WHAT!?!
I would like a lingot please. Thank you! (I’m probably going to transfer them all to my friend after collecting a bunch.)
Cheating is wrong and no one should ever do it. I’m glad you told your friend to stop. Bravo bravo. Great job!
You gotta wonder about a friend that will help her cheat and spend hours at it. Reminds me of the saying "Friends help you move but real friends help you move bodies." That friend is more than your average friend is what I'm saying. That isn't necessarily a good thing. I mean who is the gate keeper if her friend dives in with her? A really good friend should set you straight and you them when need be.
I didn't read all of what you expressed. I did notice that we both started 3 months ago and your headline reminds me of the importance of staying focused.
I don't know if I'd make it to Level 14 in Spanish (in 3 months) if I wasn't as focused as I am. I made my profile private so I wouldn't be concerned with the leagues. It didn't seem like it would help me learn anyways.
Your post resonates with me. I appreciate the honesty. I've found myself obsessing over similar obsessively greedy scrambling for wispy crowns of victory that promise great joy but only deliver a short-lived spark of fun that soon feels empty of meaning. Yours was a long post, but I enjoyed every bit of it. Write some more!
Reads Edit #4, gives away lingots anyway. Boom. Lol. I mean, I had to express my gratitude for your writing this post somehow
There's one extremely easy way for Duolingo to fix this: only count XPs one time for each lesson. That way, you can't cheat. I like the leagues because they motivate me. Sometimes I do feel like cranking out some easy lessons if I'm close to a goal, but I just do that by going to my next Level 1 or 2 skill in the tree. That way, I'm still learning. By the way, I loved your story--it was hilarious, and I like that you learned an important lesson. The funniest part, I have to say, that you were busting it just for lingots, lol
Yeah, I totally agree that they need to do something about leagues (or leaderboards, they seem to call them both even though they are two totally different concepts). I grinded my way to ruby league and then was like "this is pointless. I quit this game". Now I'm totally discouraged with duolingo and don't see any point in continuing with it. It's totally a hollow victory. "I'm on top of the world! I won!....... absolutely nothing." ;_; They should make them more interactive, maybe actually give you something other than just a few pointless gems/lingots, or really just get rid of them. I never got to do clubs, they took them away only a few days after I joined.
Haha, maybe I'll change my mind about participating. Learning a language shouldn't be competitive.
I think that the leagues are mostly for people who don't get motivated. Sorry to admit that i did't read your whole post, but i can say that the leagues do not considere true learning at the most time.
And I wish you very much true learning and a full focus that's not including cheating, or is at any cost aprehandsive or in any other way negative for you.
Duolingo is great, but we're still guinea pigs to their system. We do not want a guinea pig that is lost during the process :p. Good luck!
P.S. you are, in my opinion, a good writer even in a not native language, did you try writing a blog or a column sometimes (without Duolingo!)??
I understand you. I was excited to see myself progressing in the leaderboard at the beginning and would do "just one more lesson" to get to the top ten. Definately not as crazy as you^^, but still pressured by the perceived competition.
Then I couldn't access duolingo for a few days and lost my top ten spot. I was disappointed but also a bit ... relieved.
Now I don't know what to do about the leaderboards. I dread looking at it, but I also cannot not look at it. I don't even like to do lessons anymore because I will inevitably end up looking at the leaderboard :(
People have misread this article. It's NOT ABOUT CHEATING! It's about Duolingo's greedy decisions that put profit above users. She didn't make a mistake, or became a bad person. She was a victim of a purposefully addictive program.
The execs at Duolingo need to put users above their deep pockets. I'm probably switching to another language-learning site.
Thank you for your story, it's inspired me to stop caring and go back to regular study and hope I can tune out the leaderboards and annoying notifications that someone has surpassed me and is better than me and I will never amount to anything and I should be sad about it. The leagues are not good for your brain, learning language is!
Actually, I had tha same feeling first time I saw the league... I started re-doing firsts exercises and stories to have more Xp but when I saw how many Xp the first place already hade in that moment ( 1st day) I gave up hahaha Thanks God I returned to the life path
I completely agree. I also came to Duolingo to learn Japanese, and I also got sucked into the incredibly competitive Leaderboards scheme. The clubs were much better IMO, and didn't encourage grinding nearly so much. No rewards for being at the top, (except for getting one achievement) no promotion/demotion and not cheating. Duo really failed this one. I always practiced the best I could until Leaderboards came along. (Also I always was at the top of my club without really trying...)
When you play the GAME OF DULINGO you either win or die. There is no middle ground!
This post is great. It reminds me of something from an old favorite book of mine, Building Web Reputation Systems: when you build an online community you have to choose what reputation signals you want to display. If the community is successful, people will be motivated to increase their perceived reputation. In the case of Duo it's crowns and levels mostly. There is an obvious conflict of interest between us wanting to learn languages, us wanting to enjoy ourselves playing a game, and Duo trying to accomplish business goals.
In my case, I find it important to keep in mind that this is site is a great tool for learning Chinese. A tool is never good for everything, and it's up to the owner to know when to use it. For that reason I've been trying to be objective and picky regarding what I do here, and find myself spending more and more time on other resources that are better suited towards other aspects of the language where Duo severely lacks.
I won a few leagues, then I realized it was pointless because you don't really win anything. So now I'm back to doing my daily grind regardless of my spot in the leagues. It was giving me anxiety as well. Not worth it.
i just lost a whole bunch of XP because i was reading your story! (and laughing out loud). i gotta go! i have to check the leaderboard! i might have lost my place!
I agree. We should only be competing with ourselves to advance in a league. They should be based on learning. Once a certain number of lessons are completed, then you can move into a new league. Competing with others for the top 10 is fruitless and takes away the learning if points can be earned by repeating the easiest lessons. Or if more than one person is helping just to earn points, like you experienced, then Duolingo has defeated their original objective for education.
hehe I cheated too. my story with the leagues: One day I entered my duolingo account for the first time in a while, and I found the leagues. I decided to do the leagues fairly at first (I was in the bronze league back then) and I ended up with a result of being in the promotion zone (NOT in the top 3) and got myself promoted to the silver league. I then had a determination to get into first place. I stayed there for about an hour, UNTIL... This user names "PaulFrench" came in and knocked me down and I never beat him, but still, I got promoted to the gold league. I still tried to get in first but then this user I think was named something like "javier"(probably not it but the username was definitely Spanish). I desperately tried to get back in first but I failed, but still stayed in the promotion zone and got promoted to the sapphire league. When I got into the sapphire league, I learned that I would havve to cheat to get in first but in the beginning of when I was in the sapphire league, I decided not to aim to be one of the top 3 but just stay in the promotion zone until duolingo user "denise" knocked me out of the promotion zone for a little bit. Then my wish to be in first returned, and I got a second wind and burst through the promotion zone, beating users like "CLam", "denin triana", "Onbra"(different text but this was what it generally looked like), "Cindy", "Alessia", and "jhoni". I also learned that if I wanted to be in first, I would have to make my title as first secure. So I got lots and lots of xp, and I first reached 2000 xp. But before that, "Cindy" tried to catch up, but failed, Then I reached 3000 xp, and no one bothered me for a bit, until, when I reached 3500 xp, "Alessia" burst up to 2000 xp and I desperately tried to stay in first, and I did but she was cathing up to me really fast. She had a total of, I'm pretty sure, 2681 xp. I ended up with nearly 5000 xp in the leaderboard alone and upped my all time xp earned to over 11000 and got first prize (35 lingots) and got promoted to the ruby league. I was finally at rest, and just tried to stay out of the demotion zone. THE END!
Perhaps there is some self help group, if so I might need to join. I've only been doing Spanish for 2 weeks and I managed to get into the silver but have been engaged in a fierce battle for number one which I have just given up on realising it's not the point so well done Sandra you were quicker than me anyway.
hei, I wonder what should be important to us learners, to learn or to be promoted? T he logic says to learn and its nice to be promoted too but I see it as a just bonus.
You can disable leagues in settings. 1. Go to settings, 2. Click Privacy, 3. Un-check the box that says "Make my profile public
I have to admit that I use timed practice sometimes to. I knew I shouldn't, but I still did it. I guess this is a good time for me to stop.
Note: I didn't give you any Lingots.
I try not to worry about the leagues myself. I just try to keep my xp ending in either a 0 or a 5, and I like to stay in the promotion zone, but past that I don't pay attention to it too much. I kinda figured that if I paid attention to them I'd get obsessive and try to be the best, so I just try to ignore it (though I do check once or twice a day just to see where I am out of curiosity). I have landed in the top three twice now though, so that's cool I guess. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I gained a lot of xp while in the bronze league just to get first place to get to the silver league. After that my brain fizzled out, like letting out air from a balloon...Trying to get xp by competing doesn't mean you'll learn anything, it just means you want to be fiercely competitive. I'm just trying to learn at a slower pace without trying to overdo it. The story was humorous in any case. I like lingots, but the only thing useful is the 7 day double or nothing bet I put up to keep learning. Nothing else is even useful to me. I'd love for more useful stuff to do with lingots.
Lol. I don’t care about leagues, just doing my job and learning just for myself. It’s pretty funny to read about cheaters in language competitions.
These things are actually quite noticable if you get enough data, I have a guy in my league that has 120K in Spanish with over 400 days streak and no other languages (a few with 100 exp or so). He's done 3k points in Spanish in the last few days, every time getting them very quickly as if he was mostly doing the basics. It's not a proof of any sort, but I have a suspicion that at this stage it is not one of the usual learning patterns and it's all about points which makes things even more interesting since I'm ahead of him pushing many hours a day while learning so much he's almost like a blessing to me, not sure it's the other way around though and judging by your words I'd say it isn't.
I got to Ruby league doing genuine lessons and everytime I get to the top three some person with a bunch of gibberish in their name suddenly gets 1000XP in mere minutes and it really gives me a bad league experience.
If it is me you mean I’m sorry. I made a silly mistake. I tried to opt out the leagues but was too fast and removed the language I was studying. Now I’m rushing through the levels to get back where I were. In one way it appears to be a good exercise by the way.
muhhahahaha. I was thinking that while reading her post. Create some bots and name them cheat_bot, Do_level1_over_and_over, etc. and be very obvious. The bots user profiles could state what they're doing and point out that leagues are ridiculous because that's how people get to the top. And of course, it would also say, "bring back clubs!" I wouldn't actually do that as it's ban-able. It's just a thought.
I did the same thing with Portuguese. I just did basics 1. I stopped now. I wasn't really that into it when I saw in the gold gold league that people already had thousands of XP. When I saw that I gave up.
This made me laugh so I gave you useless virtual currency. What else am I going to do with them.
I hate the leagues too. they add not value to the learning but are in your face all the time.
Actually, it seems to me as though the more advanced lessons are usually at most about twice as difficult as those at a beginner's level. Thus, it doesn't seem to make much sense to do beginner's lessons over and over again. (Technically, since I was first introduced into a league, I've been doing some beginner's lessons, but this was because I still felt uncertain regarding certain bits of grammar and vocabulary, and because being in a league means that other users will spot if you haven't gotten the whole "combo bonus" by using a divisibility test.)
eah, I realized doing basics 1 over and over again to get a good spot in the leagues was just not helping me learn Portugese. So I abandoned that and started doing the actual lessons. I am a very slow learner when it comes to things like this, so I knew that doing basics 1 would NOT help me AT ALL. I am not going to do well in leagues because it takes me so long to learn, so, that's that I guess.
Have a good day!
yeah I don't like the way the leagues are just always on the page so large and reminding how you stack up. I was learning much better before leagues and wish i could opt out as well. Ya and lingots are useless and just stack up so I don't want any either. Show me the petition to remove or opt out of leagues and I will do it. Thank you for sharing your story
I totally agree! For the FIRST time I found myself testing out of a skill just because I wanted to fast track those XP to boost me up on the leaderboard (((which, by the way, I thought would be a lot more. I thought I'd be receiving 150 XP for those 15 lessons I got to skip but instead it only gave me 20 XP... what's that about? Did I misunderstand how that works?))) Anyway, I wish I could disable leagues because they are doing the opposite effect of what I want out of Duolingo :(
Forget the cheating and keep the writing. You write brilliantly.
More of this, but with your crimes being a little meatier than cheating in DL, or running through the wheat-fields of Britain... A novel is just a series of anecdotes like the one you've just presented so perfectly:
'The story of an ambitious, but morally-flawed, young woman trying to make her way in the modern world and claw her way up the greasy pole of success.'
Think: Vanity Fair meets Bridget Jones, but doesn't quite meet Codename Vilanelle, or similar...
You know you can. Now go do!
Good luck, and see you at the book-signing...
Yes please do remove the crap leauges Duolingo. Please I hate them so so much.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the leagues because I just want to do duolingo for my learning, not for competitive purposes.
Maybe, you can give the lingots away (not to me, I already have enough).
I am a competitive person, and I hate the leagues! I get so stressed because I always need to advance to the next level, except who has TIME for that? Literally some of these people are getting THOUSANDS of more points than me. How am I supposed to compete with that? And as others have said I would love an opt out option so I wouldn't need to worry about this anymore!
Maybe this isn't a joke and maybe you don't want it, but just for banter, have another lingot!
Great story! :-) Fact or fiction, who cares, that was a bloody brilliant ride.
If you no longer want to be in a league, go to Settings > Privacy and untick "Make my profile public"
Respect for the honest confession.
Perhaps offtopic - last week i attended an Duolingo event and after i came home I received a form asking me to confirm whether I attended it or not - when I confirmed I received 250xp instantly. With this in mind, you might want to host or attend an language-oriented duolingo event and count those because you can't just cheat it imho. I mean perhaps you can sign up for random events that you wont even attend and then just click "Confirm" to receive it, but if you personally count only those you would really attend then it will please you that you take it on another level.
I am learning five related languages at a time and Japanese so it is easy for me to go up in xp; but sooner or later, these languages would be hard to practice or do so I know i will have fewer xps. But I don't care; i want tlean
Leagues exist to motivate people to practice more and learn faster. If you're obessing over your rank you should try some meditation or talk to a therapist. I have no trouble staying in the Ruby League by doing about 20 minutes per day. I think your all or nothing attitude is unhealthy. The most productive approach is to do enough every day to challenge your mind, but not so much that you feel overwhelmed.
Yes.I do want some lingots.I want to give them away to to other people.They are useless.I also want to transfer a ton to my friend so I can see his reaction
Thanks for sharing your story! The feeling of having to chase after something even though you tell yourself it’s pointless is totally relatable. I, too, have ended up grinding kana for points in the past, only to later wonder what am I doing with my life? XD
P.S. I like the way you write! You remind me of a friend I used to exchange long and overly dramatic emails with. Don’t feel like you need to apologize for your writing style. :)
Maybe you learned a valuable lesson. It could be worse. At one prestigious U.S. business school, a professor would auction off a dollar every year to his class of MBA students, who would bid their own money with any proceeds funding a party for the class. These sharp business minds invariable got so caught up in winning that they shelled out hundreds of dollars just to "win" a dollar (and you thought winning lingots was lame). So you learned that "winning" isn't always winning and it didn't cost you a fortune.
The problem is not Leagues itself, but how one chooses to use it, the ultimate goal should be learning and mastering the language, being the top in the competition should be a secondary goal used as motivation to help one reach the ultimate goal.
So true and so well written! Duolingo should use our addictive nature and greed to make us learn, not to send us out to hunt snarks and chase chests of lingots without learning. I read it all, here's a lingot ;-)
Amazing story, our competitive side can make us unrecognizable to ourselves! Sometimes we waver from our goals due to natural competitiveness. Keep grinding japanese! (Not the leaderboards)
Leagues to have had an effect on my. While I really like leagues and don’t cheat very much, the first week was my darkest hour. While the rest of my family was watching a show I was grinding for top spot on the bronze league. I decided to practice Hawaiian because it was the one with the least skills, and so therefore shorter lesson. I spent about an hour practicing and re practicing a language I had essentially no use for. At the end of it all I had 580 do or something like that in one day. Over half of that I had gotten by essentially cheating. Nowadays, I have settle into a cheat less schedule. I practice most of my language 4 times except for five.
Lol! What can I say but sometimes we all learn simplistic yet amazing things about ourselves and the need to compete over frivolous titles. Thanks for sharing both amazingly beautiful words photo.
A more fun way to get XP towards the leagues is to do the stories (admittedly I am focusing on French so there are lots of them to work through) rather than just redoing lessons that you have already passed? At least that way you are seeing and hearing the language being used in a fun way - it also helps that I'm not really ycompetative and don't really mind if I drop down: mainly interested in (trying to) learn!!! Good luck in all your endeavours to all Duolingo-ers!
Why are people worried about a silly league, or gold crowns, or whatever. They mean nothing. The idea should be about learning a language. Yes, have progress charts and tests in aspects of a language to be able to assess your own progress, but a position on a fantasy league! Whilst achieving a zillion days without a break is commendable it is no indication of mastery of a language. That comes when you are able to order food and drink, when you are able to understand instructions from a train station intercom, and when you comprehend a good portion of a television news broadcast. Lingots? Yes they are nice to have, but they are hardly going to buy you a house in Spain or a luxury cruise. Just enjoy the process of learning a language and, with it, an understanding of the people, culture, and country of the language you are learning.
Yeah, I’ve given Leagues a go and what a disappointment. Went from a club where a number of us would interact between lessons using the prompts from Duo with a dash of creativity or news or trivia, that gave us a sense of comradeship and/or ownership and it was fun. That’s all gone, replaced by a robotic experience with with an ever group ! If I hadn’t invested the time I have, and was not living in the hope of finding our clubs once more, then I’d probably give it a miss!
I fee the exact same way. Last week I was #1 in my league, doing the same thing with Japanese. First lesson over and over. Even as I was doing it I kept thinking "why?". For some reason being #1 made me too darn competitive and I wanted to make sure I stayed there. Sunday I spent most of my afternoon making sure I remained #1, while telling myself "ok, do it this time if you must, but let this be the last time". So I won, and I didn't even win anything, I'm a subscriber, I have no use for lingots. So, no, I don't think I want to do that again, but even now I still feel the need to move to.the next league and already everyone in the promotion zone has well over 1,000 points, so if I want a shot I'll have to grind some anyway, but then I'm just wasting time and not learning jack.
Yep. I'm in the Ruby league, currently in 4th place with 1425xp after three and a half days. Above me are three folks with 3000 to 4000 points more than me. The top guy, Juarez, has 5738xp. Of course, there may be no cheating involved but that's 383 lessons he's completed. So just over 100 a day. Assuming no mistakes so that he gets the full 5xp bonus per lesson. Maybe all he / she does is Duolingo, but even at 3 minutes a lesson that would be 5.5 hours per day solid. No breaks. Not a coffee. Not a pee.
You're not in a league with people learning the same language. You can't communicate with them. It's pointless.
Having said that, I'm still watching my position even if I'm not trying to catch them, so more fool me, huh?
I feel your pain. I have no use for lingots, either, don't know what any of these things are and don't even know how I got into the "leagues". But I find myself trying to get to the top 10 and I don't even know why. I don't do the alphabet because I'm learning Spanish, but I have read every short story at least twice by now - each story is 20+XPs! Just to move up in a league that I don't even care about. What I DO like is the quiz. Not because I can pass it, because I'm actually failing miserably unless I use Translate.Google to help me, but I am determined to pass it at the top score without the help of Google... one of these days.
a title could be "Leagues-more harm that good? Story time". it's kinda a funny title, but then again, it's a funny story.
OMG. Ikr?!? Why the hell do we get tons of useless Lingots??? I have no use for them!!!
I do a similar thing but not continually the same lesson. I do it because my internet is often not working, my wife is disabled and needs attention and my sound keeps going off during a lesion. So I do the easy simple lessons to get my points and then it does not matter if problems arise, it does not upset me because then there is always tomorrow. I do not like the new leader boards. I was happy with my followers and who I am following. If you get rid of the leader boards in profiles your followers and followings disappear as well.
i also had enough of those silly leagues.
i turned my account private to get rid of them, and gave duolingo 1 star rank in google play with a bad review about the leagues.
i don't know if anyone else has done that by now, but maybe this can convince the staff that leagues are useless, and they should bring back the clubs.
First post I have ever read.. you're caught my attention. I understand... leagues are turning me into super competitive mode too and I'm not even sure how I got into one. your post was charming..and I think I might form a league addiction annon group eh!
Great story and well written! It's admirable how you can admit that you cheated and it was wrong, thank you for pointing out the negative of the leagues. I would give you a lingot (or two or ten) for the amazing post, but since you said you don't want them I'll just upvote. Again, great post
M E G A O O F yeah this isn't really appropriate at this time. Thanks for coming out this way and sharing your experience for making others a better person.
Perhaps we need a new thread: Leagues, good or bad?
And this post contains quite a bit of both.
From other comment trees, thoughts:
One, have leagues sorted by language. More than once I have read that it is easier to get points in some languages than others. Fly in the ointment: People often work more than one language, making such sorting difficult, if not impossible. Also, some people start a language with previous knowledge of that language and, presumably, would be able to advance faster, anyway.
Two, get rid of leagues. Sadly, the competitive nature of human beings which seems to be tearing the world apart, is also tearing the Duo world apart. Nevertheless, I acknowledge that there are people who may need the incentive of competition in order to "stick to it." Not a good reason to have leagues, but it is a reason.
Three, opt out of leagues, probably the most easy solution to implement. I can't even think of a fly in this ointment.
My confession: Yeah, I tend to look at my position in my league, and if, at the end of a day, I see myself within twenty points of another competitor, I will punch through a couple of practice sessions. (You can "earn back" hearts even if you have all five hearts. Not as flaky as it sounds; you get practice on several lesson units, whereas individual lesson units are usually targeted one particular learning goal)
Currently, I'm in the Ruby league. I got there because, for a short while, I decided to do three and four lessons a day. But then I found that I was spending as much as six hours a day doing Duo (and not getting much of anything else done).
Lo and behold, I soon found myself in the Ruby league, but pretty much burned out.
I now do only one official lesson a day. In Spanish, that is almost always four units, forty points plus sometimes as many as twenty bonus points a day. German lessons are a real wild card, sometimes as many seven units and, just the other day, a lesson with only one unit. That's as many as one hundred to as few as ten points per day. (Yeah, I did a lot of those "practice" sessions days I only get one or two units, not just for the points, but to feel as if I had at least exposed myself to some German that day)
If the XP for the leagues came soley from lessons and the lesson paractice dumbbell (they take me longer than the lessons) then that removes the easy XP farming that is rife at the moment. I did my first story today just to see what all the fuss was about, 24XP for a few minutes clicking. This is where Duo messed up, they either need to knock it down to 5XP (or less) for a completed story or put a limit on the number of times you can repeat a story (no more than 3 times a day and no more than 10 times in a week). There´s bound to be other limits Duo can introduce to slow down the farmers, I´m sure others who know how to play the game can suggest them.
I got that joke. I like how you admitted to feeling as though you cheated. Most people would never do that. In a way, though, you weren't exactly cheating, you were just trying really hard to get XP out of a lesson you already learned. Lingots are quite useless, but there are way worse cheaters out there, just hoarding them all up to brag.
I can have something similar to compare to this, as I only found out that leagues existed yesterday, and I know Japanese kinda well but in the placement test, I wasn't moved up any skills, so I'm just going through the hiragana alphabet again and again, which quickly earned me a couple hundred points, catapulting me to top position in the bronze league. I have no idea if this would be cheating or not but still :)
I just got to sapphire and stopped, trying not to go down. It keeps you doing something
Dang gurl same problem here :O
I can't stop laughing. You need a duolingo rehab. Every time you cheat, you lose your lingot
Just, compare yourself to yourself, Duolingo sends you a weekly report, try getting a little more every week.
I too got addicted to getting to the top league and did several practice exercises in some weeks to make sure I stayed in the top 10 to advance. Now that I am in the highest league though, I don't find it distracting as it seems pretty easy to just stay out of the bottom 5 (to not get demoted). I guess I didn't get addicted to winning Lingots though.
Leagues should be just for fun. Not a race. It's great you fixed your mistake!
hahahaa so that's how people are cheating, well if you really think about it you're just reviewing past lessons, that's how you master something. I see nothing wrong, I actually level 5 the skill before going to a new one.
Okay, just sayin, nobody bother giving me any lingots. They are quite pointless. I don't want to by them to learn flirting. That is just kind of odd, don't you guys think? Just don't bother.
Have a good day all of you and keep learning!
I like the leagues, but I think they can go second to my daily goals hha. I would've loved to be in your league I probably would've went at you with it tbh. I usually have been ending up at the number 1 spot just doing my thing
PS a friend of mine told me that lingots will be worth as much as bitcoin one day, if not more and he knew how the Lord of the Kings trilogy would end before the second movie even came out, so I trust him.
So you should be grateful you have so many lingots, you'll be rich one day according to my smart friend.
I guess I'm the only one who uses league as an excuse to not opt out on lessons. Otherwise I'll never find out what the last league is! (Nobody tell me, that's cheating.) Then I can stop. Luckily I haven't got a competitive bone in my body, but i like achievements.
Anders was probably doing the same thing as you.
Have a lingo (mad cackling laughter).
I really mean great job! You did the best thing ever. Except for the cheating part. LOL
I have to agree and disagree with you. I agree that there are a lot of people who would do anything to be on top, including having more than one friend helping grind without a conscious... So on that note, I commend you tremendously,because of your story, some may grow a conscious. For those who don't, shame on them. On the other hand, I have to say that the leagues do help motivate me to push a little more... And I am sure that there are others who can agree. Yet on that note, I say your request to opt out of the leagues is a marvelous idea for those who don't want to be tempted or distracted by such nonsense Thank you for your openness and honesty. I wish you success in your future endeavors here and in life in general
I ignore the "promotions," "demotions," "leagues," whatever. I usually check my friends list to make sure I'm doing at least so-so, and when I'm not, I'm not overly bothered by it. I try to do at least five lessons per day--some days, I'm able to do twenty or thirty, other days I miss, but I just keep on keeping on. I'm not the least bit competive with anyone on Duolingo; I'm simply trying to learn a new language. :-)
I need all the lingots I can get so I can transfer them all to my friend so I can see his reaction.The problem is that I only have 5 right now.
From a not-so-old wise man's perspective what I've got to say is this: don't edit jack. No matter how neutral you make it out, somebody is going to get their nose out of joint. Don't apologize needlessly. Also, 'cuz your post was amusing, have yourself a lingot.
When will Duolingo create a social media style learning language interface instead of the leagues? That'll be great.
I just started the leagues myself recently for the purpose of getting a new challenge out of Duolingo. I admit I've started out each day doing the hiragana and katakana exercises for some cheap points but I also like to time myself on some of the tougher lessons as well. That's where the real bragging rights are!
Technically speaking, I doubt if Duolingo would give us an opt-out option. You see this is the way humans work, it's in our psyche. We like to compete AND win.
Plus the more the time we spend on Duolingo, the more revenue it collects through ads. Why would any sensible app maker want to reduce the viewership?
The only (and the best) way out is self-control.
I agree with everything you say! But, if you can resist the temptation to cheat using only the hiragana lessons, try using the leagues to master the subsequent harder levels too.
I've found the leagues are an awesome way of forcing myself to revise lessons that I had completed six months ago but haven't touched since then. Now I can do the "Time", "Home", "Family", "Food" etc. lessons as fast as the "Hiragana" lessons! Even if that's still cheating in a way, it's definitely improving my Japanese.
OMG! I'm so sorry that you got so addicted. I try my best and am currently in the silver league. Would never do that just to get to the top. Anyway, Duolingo is meant to be for learning languages, right?
I usually don't give people Lingots but when you so plainly tell me not to, it just makes me WANNA DO IT!!!!! lol
This was a good read. This was how I was for a while until I stayed in Sapphire for the third week in a row. I'm not about to, God forbid, let myself fall in the ranks, but it's not doing anything for me anymore. しょうがないです。I guess it's just how we are. Maybe we should go back to the old Clubs system.
Last night I went to one of the "Beta" Duolingo meetups. It was in Tijuana Mx and it was fun (But loud). This morning I was awarded 250 xps by DL for showing up at the meetup. Now I feel like I cheated. Really, 250 xps for going to TJ for a margarita and Spanish conversation. I"m a cheater.
Just starting on Duo Lingo and I am glad I ran across this for future reference.
i don't cheat, i just practic more of a language in a day so i get more xp, though it takes longer than xp grinding
This made me laugh :) you don't need to insert memes, you have plenty of humour here by your own power. I hope you can ignore the leagues as best you can while there's no opt-out. Cheesy as it is, in the end you're learning a real skill, and that's going to be a great reward in itself if you keep learning
I enjoyed your story, thanks. I just started with DL yesterday, trying to figure out stuff, and to my amazement find myself on top of some leader board. I can see how this could drive me to want to defend this position, but I hope it won't. Whatever you do, it's very probable someone somewhere is going to be better at it than you. Best would be to accept that, and thank Duolingo for helping to get to that place.
Haha! Only 23 lingots! They're burying you with them! 795 at time of this comment.
i love the leagues. They are motivating and fun. i never do anything differently - i just keep learning but also keep an eye on where i sit in the league
Fun. I gave you 200 lingots. It shows that people have given you a total of 1000 lingots on your main posting and a whole bunch more in the other posts you made below this. Wow, thousands and thousands of lingots. You are LINGOT-rich!!!
Reminds me of Gollum, "My Precious". Please don't lose your hair nor your teeth due to greed.
I from small country Andorra. I support family as farmer of goats. I cross mountain to go to village to use computer to learn Duolingo. I learn English because I dream to visit America. I like League Table as help to me to hard work and to inspiration. One day I will win chest... one day...
Just kidding, just giving you a hard time :) Entertaining read!
Great post, makes the point.
Your stressed out anime face with black eyes.
I know what you mean. I studied more than I planned just to find out what happened if I got into the Ruby league. Nothing it seems. I am still there but I just study what I signed for and sometimes a little more. Just enough to not get demoted.
Wow. I totally understand that; I did the same thing to get to the top in Bronze league pretty much, except with Chinese. Have another useless lingot lol.
This is hilarious, love it. I like leagues because they draw out my competitive side which forces me to learn (vietnamese). I also find repetition very helpful to learn. I see your point though.
I enjoyed the story, you write actually good. And what's the most important thing, you stopped cheating seeing what it was like. Good job!
P. S. You asked not to fill your cave anymore with those red sparkling stones, so I won't do it. I'll just wish you good luck with your studies. :)
If you go in privacy and make your account private you don't participate in leagues anymore
Damn, a thousand lingots... any hope I get to be one of the random comments? Also, I have a tiny cheating story as well: I started a course in my first language so I could fly through the lessons. I loved reading this post, thanks for sharing it! Hopefully Duolingo notices us...
You just have to switch your profile to private and then you won't be in the leagues anymore.
Thanks for sharing. It's a real eye opener for people who just got started on the league thingy. Here, have a shiny lingot
Hey, I will take some of those extra lingots off your hand if you want! You, after all, got 1119! That was really fun to read by the way!
Yeah I found myself going down the same path and doing exactly the same as you although I figured I could cheat it to get out of the league as there doesn’t seem to be an option to quit and it was taking a toll on my learning also.
Yeah, I tell myself the leagues do not mean anything, lingots do not mean anything but it can be hard for competitive people to let go. And on the IOS version which uses rubies instead of lingots, and uses the heart system, you can refresh hearts (buy heats) with rubies, so they do have some use.
Great story about the lack of value of leagues! I've given you a lingot (as you like them some much, lol).
I usually do this to stay on top too but what do i get? Lingots and nothing learned ...i am not in support of this league thing ...but i need the lingots actually .... the only thing i use it for mostly is streak freeze. So yes, i need the lingots
DUOLINGO! Please make a simple opt-in and opt-out button that we can turn on and off for the leagues. They are fun for a few days, but then make Duolingo into a stressful/competitive chore, rather than a pleasure.
I agree with the need for a league opt-in/opt-out button. People should be able to choose whether they participate in Leagues or not. However, being in a League doesn't have to make Duolingo stressful. Much depends on how you approach them. Early on, I made a conscious decision not to let leagues affect my study regime, and by and large, I have stuck to that. Because my weekly study routine on here is fairly intensive anyway, I have sometimes won my Ruby League without even trying to as such! In other words, I didn't make any special effort to win it, it just happened for me that week. There are other times when you get a "bolter" or two, or when I have a bit of a slow week. Then I usually finish "out of the medals", but still in the top ten usually. When that happens, I just shrug and don't sweat it, because it's not like I need the Lingots anyway (I have nearly 3,300 of them at this time). I'll take the Lingots if I happen to finish in the top three, but if not, no worries! So just follow your normal study routine, and as for Leagues, whatever will be will be! Adopt that attitude, and the stress will be reduced greatly, trust me.
I will be turning my profile to private until the leagues have an on/off switch!!! Who's with me?! :)
I added an extension called uBlockOrigin and blocked the Leagues with it. Got rid of them at last. :)
@MannuBunnu I appreciate your honesty and your sense of humour. You are very entertaining while saying important things. Don.t be so hard on yourself. I think I encountered that Anders guy once. I was already spending too much time on DL and I remember thinking that either he is actually a robot or living in his parents' home seated at a computer all day.
You're story brightened my day! I like the leagues but I keep checking my level throughout the day. :-)
I enjoyed reading that. The path to recovery is to acknowledge you have a problem. You've done that so turn to the light and away from the dark side. XP farmers repent! And never forget, it's easier for a blind man to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for camel to........ than it is, for a camel to.
The leagues actually got me to doing more than the usual daily exercise which – as a language instructor – I knew way too well was not nearly enough to brush up my almost completely forgotten German skills. So I did enjoy the challenge and it benefited me tremendously first.
However, we are at the point now where so many XP is needed to advance that I have no time or energy for the more difficult parts. Thus I keep on doing the easier stories over and over again. That is not good, although I still make notorious stupid mistakes after the hundredth time. So I wouldn't call this kind of exercise utterly useless...
Yet I can see that people in my league do a zillion times more and to keep at the top (promotion zone) now requires at least 3 hours daily. I predict that this will become a regular 8-hour job in less than a month if things go the way they do. I'm already contemplating leaving the site for good as the insanity that is going on is already a great burden rather than joy for me. Of course I could just simply ignore the league stuff, but I am not that kind of a person: If I have a challenge like that before me I simply can't hide my head in the sand :)
So a good idea combined with a bit of overly zealous competitiveness on behalf of the participants can simply destroy not only the joy of learning but the meaning of this all.
I propose that coding should be changed so that league promotions would not take into consideration XP earned for the same repeated task that one has already maxed out before. That could really bring a lot of meaning to our learning and would give me (us) back the love of doing the exercises that somehow transformed to unpleasant chores...
I agree about the XP change for repeating courses and stories and have said as much in one of the many threads currently running about this subject. As for your dilemma, I'm just setting myself daily targets, either XP or time, and that's good enough for me. I'm saying that after spending my first 6 weeks here glued to the leagues so I know exactly what you mean. It's not why we are here so we have to keep reminding ourselves that it's about learning, not about leagues.
I will happy accept any lingots you dont want, have been playing for a couple years now, had my account for over five somehow. Just waiting for them to bring out some new items in shop lol By the way, you are a pretty good writer nice work.
Well my friend you have a healthy amount (I think, but we are probably crazy) of competition in your blood. For me those legues are doing wonders for number of exercises I do. All you need to do is try to be first or somewhere where it feels right but doing actual exercises and learning, rather then grinding. I think I on average do at least double if not tripple amount of exercises I would normally do just because I'm trying to catch someone on the board or one of my friends. I think leaderboards are doing wonders for people that are naturally competative as I too feel like a looser if I start sliding down the positions, which means time to do more. It's perfect way to trick ourselves into practicing. (that is if you actully start learning and practicing and not just grinding the easy ones, cause that is waste of time)
I would like to respectfully disagree.
If it takes "competition" in order for you to learn a language, then what is your real goal? Learning the language? Or competing with others on so-called "leaderboards"?
And now I'm running into another problem: All Duo gives us is out-of-context sentences to "translate." Sometimes the same sentence. Over and over and over.
So, I'm now looking at things like Deutsche Welle for German, still looking for something in Spanish, though, luckily, in the U.S., there are large Spanish speaking populations that have their own media. Here in Denver, there's La Voz, a magazine that publishes all articles in both Spanish and English.
I also happen to have a Book of Mormon in Spanish and, for German, the Einheitsübersetzung of the Bible. For what it's worth, the Book of Mormon was the one that threw me for a loop: What I wasn't expecting was that it is mostly written in "vosotros" voice, the set of personal pronouns that Duo didn't teach us. (It's still a fun read, anyway)
I will continue using Duo, don't get me wrong. But right now, my "streak" is more important than whether I'm better than someone else. At the end of the day, there will always be someone better than me: What really matters is if I am doing what it takes to better myself.
And as the kid who, in another century, was the one always left sitting on the bench after the captains chose up their teams for gym class, I have since grown to take a dim view of the allegedly universal benefits of competition.
Don't get me wrong; competition isn't always bad. But here, learning new languages, from the appearances of it, competition isn't working here.
I hate Duolingo Leagues because of me being so uptight with winning and know I can't focus on School Work... Know I have an "F" in 1 subject!!! Give me a lingot if you agree that we need to remove the league leaderboard
I would like to give you lingot for a funny story, but I am not going to, because you will just spam forums with too many posts to hoard lingots instead of learning language as you know you should;) I am happy with leagues, I did a bit of French outside of Duo and I replaced my 10xp a day streak with 400 xp/day burn as I am on my way to convert my French tree into pure gold. Still have not got to Ruby league yet, but it is not that far. Anyway I think I am learning a lot more when I spend 2 hours a day in Duo rather than 5 minutes. It is really tempting to test out out of easy skills as I could get maybe three times as much xp per hour, but it would be so tedious.
It depends. In her scenario, she didn't have anything to gain, or learn. Honestly, I once did the exact same thing, because I wanted to beat my sister.
In all fairness, where else are you going to get this kind of exposure to foreign languages - for free?
That said, don't keep doing something you hate.
Doing thew easier excercises is not cheating, in fact it just strengthens your knowledge and lets you really master the material. I am constantly going back and reviewing what I already learned in previous lessons and being in a league makes me do that more often to stay on top. It's fun and is what you make it.
there is enough for anyone's need, but not for everybody's greed...Mahatma Gandhi
@julien500526 - It has been my experience that people who talk about greed usually cannot define it in a way that does not make judgments based on assumptions and speculations about others' intentions—something they actually don't have any way of knowing.
Perhaps you are different. I presume you know what Mr. Gandhi meant by "greed", since you have quoted him, and that you mean the same thing.
If so, would you kindly do me and others in the Duolingo community the courtesy of defining what you mean by "greed"? I would like to understand what you mean.
For the record, I don't think the OP (MannuBannu) is "greedy" (someone who is acquisitive to the detriment or harm of others through coercion by force or fraud). No one was harmed by her obsessive behavior. She didn't take any property from anyone. There is no intrinsic value in leagues, lingots, or XP, and the supply is essentially infinite.
Duolingo is a self-education platform. The only real benefit that users can derive from it is in direct proportion to the effort they invest in learning.
In fact, considering what MannuBannu learned about herself from indulging her own obsessive behavior, it seems to me that she learned a very valuable lesson.
Anyhow, Mr. Gandhi's perspective was typical of those who believe that wealth is finite — that there's only so much to go around, and that Someone Who Knows Best Should Distribute It Fairly. Poppycock. Wealth is created, produced, built. It's the product of imagination, innovation, and industriousness applied to filling the needs and wants of one's fellow humans.
The greatest fortunes in the world have been made by people providing value to others, not by stealing or hoarding wealth from a limited, finite supply.
Alas, Mr. Gandhi never understood that. I respect his commitment to non-violent action, but passive resistance is ultimately a negative strategy. If you want a better world, you have to build it, produce it, create it. Resisting what is wrong takes courage, but it's not enough. It can never equal doing what is right.
MannuBannu's experience with Leagues here on Duolingo has accomplished something positive. She will behave better in the future, and no one lost anything in the process. The world is a better place because she's a better person. Greed was not involved.
I did something similar, when leagues was first released on the mobile app, i would just do the quick practice tests to farm xp and get to the top. But after a short while I lost interest in it, I wasn't learning, I wasn't even enthusiastic about the language anymore. I was just trying to win.
Wonderful illustration of the unintended consequences of reinforcements given willy nilly and without due consideration. Maybe there should be a correction if you get too many xps in a week? But, on the other hand, think of the typing skills you gained!
I like the leagues because it pushes me to do my lessons. I didn't know you could cheat! I assumed you couldn't get points for things that you were already a level 5 on. More importantly... how come there are no GRAMMAR lessons? I am super frustrated about that. Trial and error on spanish grammar is frustrating.
I am enjoying your post. Clearly lots of duolingo users are feeling as you do. Let me offer my view. I'm enjoy the league. It's making me work, and I can assure you that I need the work. People on duolingo are are in different places in their language learning-some have never tried to learn a language, some had a smattering in grade school, others tried languages in college or high school. In a league I am measuring myself against students whose backgrounds are unknown to me and likely different from mine. Nonetheless, I am encouraged to work. I have tried foreign language in college and the pace their is a lot faster than duolingo. I often had the same feelings about my progress after a chapter as you express regarding duolingo. I can recall getting an A in a course and feeling like I didn't know a thing. My point is to take advantage of the leagues for what they are. Don't worry about being perfect.
This is so funny, I reckon the only cheating you did was with your friend but otherwise grinding sounds fair just counter productive to you Haha
Wow I can't imagine doing that but like if i could i probably would have!
Well, the leagues are far from perfect. I feel sorry for the people in my league this week. I have started the German tree again and I am miles ahead of everyone else. Sorry folks.
Wow! I got almost the same problem, except that I didn't use my friend help. It makes me feel so much better to see that a am not the only one that as been through this.
Using the easy lessons to promote and gain XP is not cheating at all because it is a learning process after all and it should be pushing the learner to more complicated levels. Repeating those is not cheating, too, because of the same reason, until perfection is reached. "Training Leads To Perfection" means "More Training Leads To Even More Perfection". Excuse me but no one is "that" thick minded to stick to the same lesson for ever just to gain XP and advance to top place everytime, for at some point the learner will get bored/saturated/filled to his nose with doing the same lesson over and over; and at some point that learner will either quit, or advance to more complicated levels...
Using the same email by another person to do the same easy lessons? This brings novelty. Wow. I mean why not using the other person to do more advanced levels, at least the other one will learn something while making you a favorite. Wow! Just .. WOW!
And you want the leagues to be removed because you're being "that" thinker? Sorry, I do not agree. Have a nice emoji day.
well young linguist, I certainly agree, it is almost as if I have stumbled across the most accurate sentence in existence I wish to elucidate this to the earth. this may sound non sequitur however it is quite an exquisite website if you think
Your username is all the proof I need to know this comment is bs and so are you.
The problem definitely isn't the leagues. If someone dangles a pile of shiny faux league prestige at you, and you drop everything and start rearranging your life to accumulate it, that's not a problem with leagues. That's a problem with your perspective.
But congratulations! You've learned something extremely valuable: you are susceptible to being manipulated by trinkets. Find a quiet place away from your devices, and meditate on this valuable insight and how it might help your decision-making in the future.
I’m on a 163 day streak on spanish, my gf speaks it and we have lots of fun now that I know some things... I felt sick of the idea that you just did the easiest level just for points, even if it bored you out of your mind...... i kinda feel happy that you learned nothing, and basically ruined experience- it’s about learning a language, not points and not streaks
I Think Duo Listened to you. They have reduced Lingots. Only 20 on top league for fist place. Now everybody gets a trophy.
Don't change the title! How can people be offended by it? You are offended that people noticed your blame shifting. You even want to blame the title change on someone else.
Stop being a tryhard and stop trying to control things. Not only that you shift blame, but every time you get criticized you make an edit to your post so you can be ahead of the story.
Are you better than other cheaters because you confessed, or are you worse because you made this post for attention. Also, funny how your story says that you could have won if you wanted to.
All of that for worthless lingots. What will happen in a work environment, where everyone is fighting for a raise?
If you ever cheat on your partner, just tell him that the other man turned you into a person you wasn't.
Do not remove the league system! It is a great idea. Many people cannot bring themselves to sign onto duolingo everyday and having league allows an extra push through the competition aspect. I love video games and this idea creates a video game feeling to learning. I have not missed a day and I do constantly increase in lessons and stories.
To be sure, it wasn't the leagues that turned you into a person you weren't. It was you the whole time; and that greed that led to the unethical phone call to friends to help out was you too. Don't blame Duolingo or Leagues or anything else. The best policy is honesty and that begins at home with you.
Take it as a revealing lesson about yourself and your drive; and as you have already started doing, turn it into a positive.
So you said you didn’t care about lingots... then got over 260 from this comment.
So DuoLingo should remove Leagues for everyone because you're some type of competition addict that can't control yourself? How about you deal with your own problems, what you described seems like a serious mental problem.
Read the góddamn post, random person that can't spell Duolingo!
That's not what she said. At all.
that's too really bad words you've just said in the entire post, chill dude, and watch you language.
Did you pull a sneaky on me? Were you the one who just gave me like 5 lingots or something? Nevertheless, here you go, couple of lingots for you. I wonder what other uses lingots can have. I started treating them Reddit silvers. Certainly not as valuble as Reddit gold though.
I thought Lingots were useless. Well they are. It's not like you can buy Doulingo plus with them (which you should be able to do) They are virtually useless. Like so are leagues. Completely useless. only because of what @MannuBunnu said in her main post. People will go to extreme measures to get some useless lingots. Buying a streak freeze is useful (sometimes). But over all there useless. Have I mentioned there useless yet? another thing is I don't get people who learn like 10 languages. Just learn one. You'll never become fluent with all of them. Why not just focus on one. Then once you have become fluent on that one. Learn another.
I've also heard that Latin is useless. It's not! It's completely the opposite. It is really the most useful language. Only because it is the base of a lot of languages. I think if you learn Latin. You can learn a lot of other languages a whole lot easier.
Everyone has different goals, ways of learning, and abilities to pick up languages. I would advise against calling other peoples' efforts "useless" when you are giving an unneeded and unrelated opinion that frankly is quite rude! Let people live.
What a tepid and reductive pivot regarding people who want to learn multiple languages at once! Here's a lingot for you to spend at your local sewer.
Thank you. They are useless. And if they were physical. I would donate them to the nearest sewer plant. I would hope that they would put it to good use.
I have to agree with you on Latin. Most useful language I've ever taken. Just to read the ingredients on products, medicine, science, law, astronomy, understanding word-cells in English, understanding all of the well known European languages because of their word cells and that includes Danish and Romanian. Massively useful. I don't know how many times I've been cracked up by reading something nobody else got. I'm glad I took Italian too - the closest language to Latin and imo by far the most beautiful language to listen to. If you think that should be French, load the Italian tree and listen to how it sounds. Italian sounds a lot different than Spanish. It makes me wonder how Latin was originally pronounced. Italian is 13th Century Latin - Dante's Latin. I studied Caesar's Latin (Wheelocks) when I did Latin. Add German and you have the keys to understand nearly every newspaper in European. At least that's the position I found myself in with those two languages.
Wow. So what does German have to do with it. Is that like a base European language. and holy cow you have a streak and a half. The longest streak I got was a 30 day streak. And I thought that was a lot.
Learning multiple languages is not always about achieving fluency (although the more you practise in a certain language, the more proficient you start to become). For me, it's also about exploring new languages and seeing how they work, and getting at least a decent foothold in them. Also, because many languages are related, it can become easier to learn languages of the same family. For instance, if you learn Norwegian, Danish and Swedish become easier. German and Dutch go rather well together. Or if you learn Spanish, that opens the door to Portuguese, Italian and French.
So there is absolutely nothing wrong with learning more than one language at once. I'm having a blast with it and expanding my linguistic horizons quite a lot at present.
I do agree with what you said about Latin though. Not only is it the base for a number of languages (especially the Romance ones), but you can learn a lot about grammar principles. When I did a stint of Latin at university, I think I learned more grammar then than I did in secondary school English!
Very good point. I guess I shouldn't jump to conclusions. Greek is another base language. If you know the grammar of Latin and Greek. You can learn a lot of other languages.
Скоро у всех будет телефон. И все они смогут использовать Google Translate, чтобы рассказать, что говорят иностранцы Но я думаю, что изучение языка все еще будет полезно. довольно полезно. Видя, как если у вас нет телефона. Вы хотите знать, как говорить на определенном языке.
I used google translate to do that.
BenKuip. really. 1500 lingots. That's a lot. and you gave them all away. You could of bought a bunch of streak freezes with all of those. (the only useful thing you can do with lingots)
Its not that he wanted lingots its just that I wanted to give them all my lingots. I have no use for them. Most useless virtual currency.
I meant "give him." You must get over 150 lingots every ten days! I used to have 1,300 but I gave them all away. Useless.
Oh wow! 1448 lingots 0_o?! Heyyy lemme try that.
Por favor lingots!
LordEragon05. I get 4 lingots for every lesson finished, so if I wanted a streak freeze, i could just do 3 lessons. I can only have 1 streak freeze at a time.
wellllllll. Not TOTALLY useless. They offer streak freezes (ok THOSE are useless), permanent timed practice, Double or Nothing lingot bets (I won one of those once), and bonus topics like flirting(must be at least 13 to buy this), and Idioms(ever heard of them, they are also "tricky talk").