https://www.duolingo.com/drvdw

Genitive case with verbs?

I searched for information about when to use the genitive case and came across this site:

https://www.russianpod101.com/lesson/learn-russian-in-three-minutes-17-the-genitive-case/

It reads:

The genitive case is also used after certain verbs. Here they are – просить “ask”, искать “look for”, ждать “wait for”, достигать “achieve”, желать “wish”, бояться “be afraid of”. And here are some examples: Искать друга “Look for a friend” Ждать учителя “Wait for a teacher” Просить воды “Ask for water”

My teacher said that my genitive examples based on this were wrong and that they should have been accusative. After further researching on the web, I found other sites such as

http://masterrussian.com/aa061500a.shtml

The genitive is used after the verbs просить, хотеть, требовать, искать, ждать, достигать, желать, бояться with nouns designating abstract and indefinite objects.

So does the first site have erroneous examples?

June 11, 2019

24 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/ihamsa

Some of the examples given by the first site are indeed poor, if not outright wrong. Ждать учителя and искать друга are generally understood as accusative, though interpreting these as genitive is not impossible. One needs to look at feminine forms to see the difference.

(Просить воды is definitely strictly genitive though, this example is correct)

So let's look at feminine forms, учительница and подруга.

One can say ждать учительницу or ждать учительницы. Both forms are correct though the meaning is sightly different. Ждать учительницу means a specific teacher, ждать учительницы is for any teacher (say your regular teacher has called sick and you are waiting until some substitute teacher arrives, whom you don't know). This is just what the second site says: you use genitive with abstract and indefinite objects.

Since the second meaning is very rare, I would say ждать учителя by default should be understood as an accusative.

Искать подруги sounds rather weird today, though one can sometimes find this usage in some old texts. This can only mean "search for somebody to make friends with", again, an indefinite object.

You can use the second form more freely in a negative sentence: он не стал ждать учительницы, even if it's a specific teacher (он не стал ждать учительницу is also correct).

Edit Some better examples would be:

  • ждать автобуса, отпуска, приезда родителей, у моря погоды
  • искать приключений, денег, славы, счастья
June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/olga248831

OMG! Искать подругу или подруг, but in no way "искать подругИ" - I am looking for my friend(s). "ждать учительницы" - it is not in Russian "не ждать учительницу" or " нет учительницы"

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ihamsa

in no way "искать подругИ"

сюда тыц

it is not in Russian

Даже Зализняк был не столь категоричен в этом вопросе

такие фразы, как я жду матери, я жду учительницы находятся, по-видимому, за гранью грамматической правильности

Я вообще-то с этим согласен. Хотя я нашел, как мне кажется, редкий случай, когда такое употребление можно с натяжкой признать правильным, но и в этом случае родительный падеж будет как минимум более уместен. Так что настаивать не буду. Удачи.

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/olga248831

Даль вы мой. Люди, учившие русский язык в школе, ждут мать и учительницу. Я жду (вижу) мать , а не матери. Еще раз это не по-русски, если только дипломанты подземных переходов правила не поменяли.

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/mortificator

Я так и не дождался, его мать! 8)

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ihamsa

(меланхолически) Ждал мать, а не дождался как раз матери.

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/mortificator

Увы! Он счастия не ищет,

И не от счастия бежит!

(МЮ)

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/drvdw

interpreting these as genitive is not impossible

I don't know what you mean. The words друг and учитель are in either genitive or accusative there, even if these examples are cases when the endings are the same. воды is the genitive singular form of вода, which would be воду if it were accusative, right?

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ihamsa

I'm not quite sure what exactly is unclear. Can you be more specific?

The words друг and учитель are in either genitive or accusative there

Yes, I then go on and write half a dozen paragraphs about determining whether it's really gen. or acc. Have you read them?

воды is the genitive singular form of вода

I wrote just that.

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/drvdw

Sorry. I get it now

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/olga248831

Water-Вода - nominative case. Genitive - (No) Water-(Нет) Воды - Accusative - (I See) (Blame) Water - (Вижу) (Обвиняю ) Воду

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/olga248831

Your teacher was right. Cases clarify the role of nouns and their relationship with other words in a sentence. Declination

Nominative who? what? // Genetive Who? what ? // Dative to whom? what ? // Accusative of whom? what? // Instrumental by whom? than? // Prepositional about what? //

Nominative The initial form of the word. Answers who / what questions.- кто/что. Examples: The clock struck five.- Часы пробили пять. Pushkin is a great Russian poet. - Пушкин – великий русский поэт.

Genitive Indicates affiliation or absence. Answers the questions of someone / what. кого/чего.- Examples: The teacher does not have a pencil. - У учителя нет карандаша. This is my grandfather's book. - Это книга моего дедушки. Dative Shows the item to which the action is directed. Answers questions to whom-what. - кому/чему. Examples: This letter to famous actor. - Это письмо известному актеру. Help your sister. - Помоги своей сестре.

Accusative Shows the action object. Answers the questions of who / what - кого/что Examples: I love flowers. - Я люблю цветы. Vasya repairs the car. - Вася чинит машину.

Instrumental case Indicates an action tool. Answers the questions of whom / what.-кем/чем. Examples: The letter is written by John. - Письмо написано Джоном. I am proud of my country. - Я горжусь моей страной

Prepositional Indicates a subject / thoughts or location. Always used with the preposition. Answers questions about / about what? - о ком/о чем? // в ком / в чём Examples: We are swimming in the sea. - Мы плаваем в море. They talked about money.- Они говорили о деньгах.

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Aleksandro_RU

with "искать"?? Really?

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ihamsa

For example, искать приключений на свою... голову.

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/olga248831

Задница— многофункциональная часть тела. Кроме основного предназначения, ей думают, ей же чувствуют, через неё принимают решения и выполняется больше всего работ, на неё ищут приключения, а когда найдут, в ней же и сидят!

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Aleksandro_RU

Maybe, but...when? I always check this with the words of 1st declension. "Искать ту берёзу", not "той берёзы"... But, yes, "приключений". Is it also "partitive", as "искать еды"?

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ihamsa

Please read the original post carefully, pay attention to the words abstract and indefinite objects.

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/mortificator

Искать счастья, дружбы, воды, пропитания...

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/olga248831

Auxiliary words Characterizing the question 1 Nominative ( Is )Who? What? 2 Genitive ( No) Who? What? 3 Dative ( Give) To Who? What 4 Accusative (Blame) Who? What? 5 Instrumental (Satisfied) by Who? Than? 6 Prepositional and Locative (Think About?) About what? In whom? In what Where? (Locative)

It will help you https://www.cheatography.com/lammmas/cheat-sheets/russian-cases/

or for Russian children at school // http://nashi-detochki.ru/uchebarazn.php?id=1

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Sophiafilm

The genitive is used after the verbs просить, хотеть, требовать, искать, ждать, достигать, желать, бояться with nouns designating abstract and indefinite objects.

It's a very accurate explanation. Stick with the second site.
Искать друга (the noun 'друг' in both accusative and genitive case has the same form 'друга').
Ждать учителя (the noun 'учитель' in both accusative and genitive case has the same form 'учителя').
But these nouns are masculine, change them to their feminine equivalent, and there will be no ambiguity, which case you should use.
'Ждать учительницу.' To make it more clear, change the verb 'ждать' to 'искать': 'Я ищу учительницу русского языка.' not 'Я ищу учительницы русского языка.'. 'Я ищу подругу' not 'Я ищу подруги'.

Просить воды. (in this case, it's an indefinite object, you're talking about water in general, though in a store, for example, when you're talking about water in a bottle or a type of water you will say 'Я прошу, вон ту воду', 'Я прошу минеральную воду'.).
I recommend this site http://morpher.ru/Demo.aspx where you can see all cases for any noun you wish to check, make sure you write nouns in the nominative case.
Good luck with your studies!

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/mortificator

Я прошу минеральной воды. :)

June 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Sophiafilm

I'm sorry, I can't agree with you, "прошу минеральной воды" doesn't' match with my example. When you have a choice between mineral, sparkling or still water, water is not abstract, then saying "прошу минеральной воды", would be grammatically incorrect, though everybody understands you and doesn't notice that mistake. To make it more clear change the verb "просить" to "искать". "Я ищу минеральную воду" - correct, "Я ищу минеральной воды" is not.

June 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/y3fEQceT

The examples are correct.

Animate objects have the same form in both gen. and acc. (kogo net? druga. kogo vizhu? druga.) However if you say "prosit' vodu (acc.)", it sounds like you're talking to some water and asking it for something: "Please, Water, quench our thirst!"

June 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/drvdw

Animate objects have the same form in both gen. and acc.

That is completely false.

Also, can't you type in cyrillic? I can't read transliterations.

June 11, 2019
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