1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Italian
  4. >
  5. "Lui ci ha portate allo zoo."

"Lui ci ha portate allo zoo."

Translation:He has taken us to the zoo.

April 14, 2013

42 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laura65

I don't understand why the past participle ends in e here, not o.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peterb12

Ooh, ooh, I just learned the answer to this one, so I'm happy to share the love. That you noticed that indicates that you have a good eye.

"When preceded by avere, participle does not change in gender and number except when the direct object pronoun (what substitutes la torta or le rane) moves behind the auxiliary."

In this case, the speaker is one of a group of women, and since there is a "ci" particle appearing before the "ha", the participle matches the gender and number of the direct object (in this case, although it doesn't actually appear, that would be ragazze or donne).

See this answer for a longer and probably more accurate explanation: http://duolingo.com/#/comment/271063


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beethoven.21

So actually the pronoun "ci" is substituting for "noi ragazze," not actually a general "we" like we think in English, where it only can be a neutral word, or where there is no such thing as altering verbs to accommodate gender/ number.
I think that if it were referring to a group of people of mixed gender or males, it would have to be Lui ci ha portati allo zoo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Em484950

>So actually the pronoun "ci" is substituting for "noi ragazze,"

wow, thank you for explaining that!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeanG6

Your example sentence is also in this lesson. I just had it 2 sentences ago:

"Lui ci ha portati allo zoo."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wiplala

yes, I agree, that is what I was thinking


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Monika-E

I wouldn't think we but us in general. He took us to the zoo...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/franksk

Well, I think they're just saying 'we' but mean 'us.' They're pretty much the same word, just one's a subject and one's an object, but you're right, in this sentence 'ci' does mean 'us.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aaronwoolley

good explanation. but given the lack of context then "ha portati" should also be accepted, should "us" include atleast one male


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laura65

Thanks very much. What a complicated language Italian is! But much helped by the helpful duolingo family. I'll follow the link and try to make sense!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cuicuu

Nice answer! I thought we French were the only ones to have so complicated rules. It is actually quite similar to Italian! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelmutKrhl

French, Spanish, Italian are all based on Roman. I'm not sure about Portuguese but I think it's the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beatles-Musician

Also Portuguese, it's a Romance language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J-Martinez66

In Portuguese it'll be: Ele nos levou ao zoológico. Yes, Portuguese is also part of the romance languages group. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mimiducky

This is one rule I remember easily because it's the same in French. Though I find that a lot of Italian grammar is quite different from French...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/longchamploo

I feel like it would be helpful to include a picture of the speaker (woman) so that we learners could make the connection implicitly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoeM.

Just to add on to the discussion a bit, when the direct object pronouns lo, la, l', li, and le directly precede the transitive verb (a verb conjugated with avere) in the present perfect, the agreement of the past participle (in gender and number) with the pronoun is mandatory.

However, if the verb is directly preceded by mi, ti, ci, or vi, for example, as in this case, the agreement is completely optional. Thus, this sentence could also have been written "Lui ci ha portatO allo zoo." This gives you some options. :D Hope this helps!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wiplala

aahrrgggg!!! now I am completely confused! Ah well, they will understand me in Italy whatever I say... portate, portati, portato, portate.... I´ll take my lost hearts with courage and struggle on ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaraDePauUK

You say portate, I say portato


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grainemhaol

Molto divertente...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margaret_S

really funny :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/larenasn

Sorry for the silly question, but what part of this sentence indicates that it's "us"? Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wiplala

the "ci" part indicates us. It is like this: MI ha portato.. (he took ME...), TI ha portato (he took you), LO (him), LA (her), CI (us), VI (you all), LI (them male), LE (them female)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klaas_Damsko

but I think the "portato" changes, like "portate" in this sentence...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wiplala

you are right!, I did not make all the sentences, thought it was clear like this. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelmutKrhl

The meaning of this sentence is "He took us to the zoo". In my evening classes years ago I learned from my Italian teacher that in this case you use "andare a prendere". "Portare" was never mentioned. Unless the meaning is "He carried us ...".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

I found it tricky to hear the portate and wrote potati as there seemed no indication they were female. shold have put it on slow


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/larenasn

Brava! You are wonderful! Thank you : )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ragnhild37

but: peterb12, how do we know they are women? Would it be portati if they were male?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LlamaNation01

Why not "He had taken us to the zoo"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharkbbb

This is passato prossimo, it is equivalent to past simple (took) or to present perfect (has taken), but not to past perfect (had taken):

  • Lui ci ha portate allo zoo = He took us to the zoo / He has taken us to the zoo

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jane821964

Thanks, this answers my question, which was "can this mean or ?" They are both the same tense in some other Latin languages


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AR_Elsherbiny

Why "ha" and not "e" ? isn't portate a movement verb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

"Verbs of movement" is an easy-to-understand way of explaining which verbs take "avere" and which take "essere", however is not a 100% accurate method.

Transitive verbs (verbs capable of taking a direct object) take "avere".

Intransitive verbs (verbs incapable of taking a direct object, so often verbs of motion like "go") take "essere".

Since "portare" can take a direct object, it takes "avere".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmbro899876

How are we supposed to know it's a group of women and not men?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

The masculine "ci ha portati" should also be accepted, if it wasn't then try submitting an error report.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VirginiaTh509525

Something is wrong here. I used Portate the first time and it was wrong, they wanted portati. Next I used portati and it was wrong and they wanted portate. What is it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

The expected answer is "Lui ci ha portate allo zoo." Was your sentence exactly the same as that or was there something different?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peejob

How can it possibly be a group of women if it is a man's voice dictating ??? my answer of portati is correct I believe

Learn Italian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.