"باب جَديد"

Translation:a new door

June 25, 2019

59 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlbertGric

What does he say between "baab" and "jadeed"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Yes, what Adam said is correct, it's the nominative indefinite ending, -un, which is rarely written, but if it were, it would be written as بابٌ

Notice how the small symbol above the ب looks like two small وو linked together. The grammar behind when we use what when talking about indefinite things is a bit too involved to explain here, so what I suggest you do is pay really close attention to what you hear while following the Arabic letters with your eyes, and you'll eventually get a feel of what to use when. It takes a long time to acquire this skill, so just be patient and listen to a lot of Arabic while following text every day. You'll get there eventually :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Panchete1

In "بَيت مُمتاز" Duolingo says "bayt muntaaz". Is there any difference if you say "baytun muntaaz"? Or is it the difference between "amazing house" and "an amazing house"? Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

When speaking in real-life, nobody actually pronounces the -un sound except news anchors, or during some kind of official speech. Even in school, when reading books out loud, the sound is dropped in more advanced classes. Only children are made to pronounce every single sound. I'm trying the course to test it, and so far, it seems the readings tend to mix between fully reading every sound, and dropping the ones that are normally dropped. This mimics real-life, so it's good to get used to hearing both version, with -un and without it.

Feel free to also copy and paste Arabic sentences into Google Translate and listening to how Google's engine reads them, just to get used to multiple voices. There are several other available voices online as well. Your laptop or phone probably has a built-in one(s) you could use as well. Have fun! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

Your responses are very helpful, SamirShaker, thank you for taking the time to help us.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Thank you for taking the time to let me know that. It makes it worthwhile and I’m happy you’re benefiting :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/antoniojack

This sounds just as complicated as learning English o French. Here we go again sigh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

I don't want to discourage you, but it's good to have realistic expectations to be able to conquer a goal, so here is the hard truth: Arabic takes much longer to learn than English or French. Some classifications say that it takes more time than Chinese, and I actually agree with that. Arabic has its rules, but they do tend to be rather involved and require some commitment to study if you really want to master the formal language. There are also several exceptions to the rules. Having said that, it's ok if you make some mistakes that violate strict grammar rules. Native speakers do them too. Just be patient and enjoy learning something different :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_FiX_

tough argument you make, I am not sure whether to agree or disagree because you do make a good point.

Technically tho, it is 'wrong' not to have nunation, and it does serve a strong purpose in the language and is one of its essences. Does it make it quite hard? Yes.

In real life many Arabs may not pronounce it but they do acknowledge that they are wrong in not pronouncing it and that they are speaking dialectical or even that their own MSA is influenced by dialectical - that is the key difference (it is not about saying it correct or wrong, but rather about knowing how it should be pronounced right and wrong).

I would recommend at least making a note about nunation at some point, it really is an essential part of Arabic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Nunation does indeed have a purpose, and in some cases, having the wrong nunation or not having one changes the meaning of the sentence. That's why it is mostly only written in cases that remove disambiguation. When speaking, people would just ask if they misunderstood.

Regarding 'right' and 'wrong', the way I see it, grammar is there to describe language as it is used by people as closely as possible, but it could never fully describe it, as language constantly changes. MSA is an attempt from academics to impose regularity on a language, which doesn't always have it in real-life. There are actually more than one MSA standard even, and they compete based on politics basically.

If you're interested in learning MSA deeply, it's quite interesting and I'd encourage you to do it. But is it essential for you to sound native? Not at all. It's more important for you to work on your listening and pronunciation skills for that.

PS: I am a contributor to another course (German for Arabic speakers), not this one. So I cannot add any of your suggestions to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radikian

Ultimately this is how languages evolve. 3 or 4 generations into the future and the nuation may have been dropped entirely, and grammars may explain that "it used to be like that before, but now it is considered archaic". ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sue101

Thank you for your explanation. I have been training my ears and hear the "un" between words but duolingo has not addressed this sound and why it is used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesMahmoud

Thank you so much for that explanation Samir!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

You’re welcome. Have fun learning Arabic! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbdielMung

Give this man a lingot! (British accent)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguafiqari

It's the nominative indefinite ending, -un. It's not actually shown with harakat here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hippietrail

It would probably be better if they did show it since they are already going to the trouble to show all the short vowels, which are not usually shown either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sue101

I hear an additional syllable after certain words. Duolingo has not explained this as far as I can tell. SamirShaker has explained it well for us.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Panchete1

By the way... Have you noticed that here, the sentence "باب جَديد" is displayed as "جَديد باب" at the start of the comments? Duolingo should fix that issue (I would swear that it also happens in the hebrew course, if I'm not wrong).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

It's displayed here correctly for me. The Hebrew course finally got the blue clickable sentences going in the right direction. Some students there evidently didn't see the sentences backwards like I did, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Garnetskull

Shouldn't this be بابٌ جديدٌ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Yes it should if you want to be grammatically accurate, however, we often don't pronounce the last diacritic at the end of a sentence while reading, which is probably why the makers of the course didn't add the final ٌ event though I think it's better for beginners if they add it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/W_U_R

Yeah, i think the same. They must add it for beginners.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/84nikhat

How i am supposed to know translation of arabic words when i just started to learn alphabet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmosBordow1

just for the hell of it I typed "gate" instead of "door" because I remembered from 7th grade arabic that "bab" meant either one. Duolingo decided I was wrong. Well, arabic speakers - Am I?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tribulusterr

I'm no expert, but yes, I think it should be acceptable (afaik mediaeval 'gates' in cities are usually called Bab al-sthg or other)


[deactivated user]

    As an Arabic speaker, I'm not aware of باب meaning either door or gate. It's the word بَوّابَة that means gate.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

    Thanks for noting بَوّابَة (bawwaba). Perhaps that you are not familiar with باب has to do with dialect? It's for sure an Arabic word, albeit through Aramaic (it's a common meaning of the word in Babylonian Aramaic, including Mandaic), and it for sure means "gate." It's a well-known word in the history of Islam on account of the name given to Siyyid ‘Alí-Muhammad, whose remains are now interned on Mount Carmel in Israel (Bahai). On the word itself, see, for instance (the second link refers to "related terms"): https://www.definitions.net/definition/bab-el-mandeb and https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/باب


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillDe

    A new gate should be accepted


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sue101

    the door is new - isn't this OK too?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillDe

    No. The phrase has is no "the" = ال


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sue101

    Thank you, BillDe


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmosBordow1

    As Bill pointed out - if you want to say the door is new you need the prefix "al". "Al bab jadid"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_FiX_

    you can however translate it as 'A door is new' (IF it is an independent sentence) It would be grammatically correct but unusual usage.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BusdriverDon

    did I miss something? I never saw the words -A or NEW or DOOR, so how was I supposed to know what these words mean? I can't even see or hear that this is more than one word


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    Like in all the Duolingo courses, when you click on the word you see the translation and hear the pronunciation. Duolingo seems to not be introducing words separately anymore like they used to do.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adam_Sparrow

    So in arabic we write nouns first, then adjectives? Kinda weird, in straight english it looks like "door new" instead of "a new door"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_FiX_

    yes. Nouns then adjectives in the event of a regular simple description.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michelle653967

    Having trouble learning difference between “big” and “new.” Is baab new?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bella436656

    This is not making sense. I have gone from learning just letters and sounds to suddenly being expected to translate vocabulary that hasn't even been covered. I'm just expected to know what the words mean now and it hasn't even been introduced yet. Reading sounds is very different to knowing what they actually mean and there's no progression to it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    This is how Duolingo teaches. You see the meaning of the word when you put your cursor over it. Then, when you see the meaning of the word, you can translate it. This is how most of the words are introduced in all the languages Duolingo teaches.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

    As benton1 wrote, DL is an inductive learning tool that works best for adult learners who are willing to learn from mistakes and at their own pace. I take it for granted that the learner should also work through a grammar or two and also do immersion experiences if possible at some time. Having said that, each DL language does "scaffolding" differently and some of the languages are at different stages of development. Your input can help DL Arabic scaffold more effectively in some ways.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prero

    Doesn't jadeed mean old? Please correct me, but I think I heard that translation somewhere


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr.usmonov

    So baab means a door?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xXx294998

    How am I suddenly expected to know door in arabic? This is just stupid


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/N.R.A2007

    Baab door jadeed new


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph.QuXWUM

    Sometimes it's hard and easy


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tehmeena.

    Tell the Arabic word meanings also


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    They do tell the meanings, just put your cursor over the words.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janice567643

    Thanks. Grabbed it!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fati.tita13

    I am Arab I need to chat with foreigners to learn English and whoever loves to learn Arabic I help him


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janice567643

    I have heard door, baab, before in lessons, but not new, jadeed. Why introduce words I don't recognise....?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

    Duolingo introduces new words just by putting them in sentences. They might have dots under them to show that they are new. Whatever the case, just put your cursor on the words to see their meaning.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janice567643

    I started this course not realising I should have started with Learn the letters! I eventually clicked and went back and have now found doing the lessons easier, and explanations for un, an, in were given too.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbdulLatee725371

    What does 'dhadh' sounds as dadh but word is, زَز , İts kinda difficult

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