"روزا"

Translation:Rosa

June 26, 2019

29 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hectorlqr

Is the audio right? I hear "Ruuzan"..

June 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

You're right. There is no N sound at the end. It's "ruuza" or "rooza" depending on how you want to represent the sound و

EDIT: I previously said that the sound was correct, but after listening to it again, it seems incorrect because it pronounces an N at the end. The reason for this is that the text-to-speech engine is interpreting ا as اً because ً is commonly dropped. It can't tell that this is a person's name. So just know that there is no N sound at the end in this case :-)

June 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark845980

I don't get it. Could you explain in other words please?

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Take for example the word أهلاً. Notice the ً at the end, which adds an N sound. In most writings, this symbol is dropped, but the presence of the letter ا at the end of a word often implies a ً without it being written. In this case, there was a letter ا at the end, so the text-to-speech engine (program that speaks the text) added a ً when there shouldn’t be one. There shouldn’t be one because روزا is a proper noun (name of a person)

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark845980

Alright now I understand, thank you. I wasn't familiar with the symbol ً . Does it have a specific name? In my grammar book I've only learned about the kasra, fatha, shadda, sukun and damma but no that one.

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

This symbols is due to what is called nunation or تَنْوِين which is when you double a diacritic at the end of a word, in this case the فتحة. You can read more about nunation here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunation

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SirV3nt90

Would writing that with an alif moksura- ة - instead of an alif fix that?

July 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

You mean teh marbouta ة

That would fix the pronunciation, but that's just not how Rosa is normally written in Arabic, so it would break the writing.

July 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AhmadLaM

Yeah, the pronouncer is saying "روزاً" with the " ً " diacritic; it's too early for that, just ignore it for now, I'm sure it'll be fixed soon.

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AsitGanguly

Great response. Thanks. But how to differentiate "ruuza" and "rooza" in pronunciation. Examples will help.

July 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SophCamera

I also hear Ruuzan.

June 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

You're right. I listened to it again and provided an explanation in the EDIT of my answer above. Please check it out :-)

June 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dieprinzessin

I guess the problem is in the last letter 'aa'. Adverbs end in this letter and in that case the letter has (optional) two little ligns added (ـًأ)which changes the sound from 'aa' to 'an'. In this context however it should be roozaa.

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craaash80

Ahah that "o" sounds like Russian :D

June 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hassan323496

I hear "Ruuzan" too. The written word should be pronounced like “Ruuzaa”

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kim208424

Ok, this is frustrating, Duo. This whole lesson so far with the names is violating everything the previous lessons taught. These characters, according to the prior lessons, should map to r-uu-z-aa, and yet Ruuzaa is not accepted. Rethink the logic for this lesson and its placement, please.

July 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

In the alphabet section, we were being taught the sounds of the Arabic letters using Roman letters to represent them. "r-uu-z-aa" is the transliteration of the sounds of the Arabic letters روزا, not the translation of the word into it's English meaning: Rosa. We're being asked for the translation of the word here, not for the transliteration

There are three vowel sounds (it is said, even though I have been hearing many more than three sounds in the lessons) that are pronounced both short and long: "a, aa, u, uu, i. ii". Currently our lessons are introducing names of people, countries, and cities; such as George, Rosa, Carrie, Korea, Riga etc. There is a generally recognized way to spell people's names and the names of countries and cities: Rosa is R-o-s-a, George is G-e-o-r-g-e, and Korea is K-o-r-e-a etc. The problem is that the sounds of Arabic letters and English letters don't always line up. There are sounds that we have that they don't have and vice versa. So, we both try to represent the sounds in our spellings the best we can, but they don't always line-up. Take the name "Rosa": Arabic and English both have an R sound, but, we pronounce it differently. We use ر though. Arabic does not have the (same) "o" sound, the closest we can get is the elongated "u" sound (uu) و. S is the next letter. Arabic has an "s" sound with س. But, Rosa's "s" sounds like a "z", so the Arabic letter ز is used. Now, we come to alif "ا": the elongated "a" sound (aa). Hence روزا. (The pronunciation on the recording is whole other story.) If Arabic speakers were writing the Spanish pronunciation of "Rosa" in Arabic, the letters would be different because the Spanish pronunciation of Rosa is different than the English pronunciation of Rosa.

I hope I've been able to help you a bit with my explanation.

July 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kim208424

Thank you for your well-thought-out reply. I appreciate it. I do still think the lesson placement sets us up to stumble or completely miss their intent because they've focused strictly on sounds to this point and then violate everything they just taught, but I see your point about transliteration vs. translation.

July 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hassan323496

Why ر and و can't be attached like in the case of بو ب?

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Some letters can’t take attachments after them because then they would look like other letters. For example, if you were to attach a letter after ز it would look like ن which when attached, looks like نـ

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fresh99012

Just to make sure I got this right from the people commenting, و can sometimes be read as uu or as oo (with the o as in "door")?

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

No, "oo" as in "boot". But, Duolingo uses "uu" to represent the sound, not "oo".

June 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/congergs

Some say "ruuza" and the others say "ruuzaa". Is it optional?

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YPSILONZ

I hear "ruuzent"

July 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerdocrat

Is there a way to make the lettering larger? ....and not yellow? I cannot read the word.

July 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

If you're doing your lessons on a smart phone, try doing them on a PC. I use a PC and have not seen yellow words. Turn in a Bug Report to Duolingo, as well. Most everyone is having problems with the small Arabic print. On a computer, "ctrl +" will enlarge what's on the screen and "ctrl 0" will bring the screen back to normal size. What have you been doing your lessons on BTW?

July 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarineBaronian

Am I the only one that heard Roosan?

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter597928

Apart from the difference between transliteration and translation, I think we must remember that we are in module "Alphabet 2". We are still learning the alphabet. What are translations doing in here? At the same time, I think that the transition from Alphabet 1 to Alphabet 2 is too radical. In Alphabet 1, we learned and practiced separated letters: the vowels a, aa, ii and uu, and the consonants d, r, z, and the use of ii and uu as consonants y and w. All shown as sounds or transliterations, I have no idea whether the combinations of letters used in Alphabet 1 represent actual words. Suddenly, in Alphabet 2, we get new consonants: j, k, b and a d with a dot above that is represented as dh, plus we find them joined up in ways that change their shape, for example, a b followed by aa loses the upward curved loop on its left hand end, which is completely replaced by the aa. This is a lot to take in so suddenly. And we only get 2 lessons to learn and practice them before we suddenly run into translations without even knowing that they are translations, since the instructions say "Write this in English", not "Translate this". In contrast, in Alphabet 1 there were 5 levels with several lessons in each level. This whole module, Alphabet 2, needs a rethink. On the other hand, I have now discovered that if you hover the mouse over the arabic text, it shows the correct answer. And in most cases, we are dealing with the way in which people's names are represented using the arab alphabet. But "and" is still a translation.

August 4, 2019
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