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- Topic: Arabic >
- "روزا"
38 Comments
You're right. There is no N sound at the end. It's "ruuza" or "rooza" depending on how you want to represent the sound و
EDIT: I previously said that the sound was correct, but after listening to it again, it seems incorrect because it pronounces an N at the end. The reason for this is that the text-to-speech engine is interpreting ا as اً because ً is commonly dropped. It can't tell that this is a person's name. So just know that there is no N sound at the end in this case :-)
Take for example the word أهلاً. Notice the ً at the end, which adds an N sound. In most writings, this symbol is dropped, but the presence of the letter ا at the end of a word often implies a ً without it being written. In this case, there was a letter ا at the end, so the text-to-speech engine (program that speaks the text) added a ً when there shouldn’t be one. There shouldn’t be one because روزا is a proper noun (name of a person)
Alright now I understand, thank you. I wasn't familiar with the symbol ً . Does it have a specific name? In my grammar book I've only learned about the kasra, fatha, shadda, sukun and damma but no that one.
This symbols is due to what is called nunation or تَنْوِين which is when you double a diacritic at the end of a word, in this case the فتحة. You can read more about nunation here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunation
You mean teh marbouta ة
That would fix the pronunciation, but that's just not how Rosa is normally written in Arabic, so it would break the writing.
Yeah, the pronouncer is saying "روزاً" with the " ً " diacritic; it's too early for that, just ignore it for now, I'm sure it'll be fixed soon.
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Great response. Thanks. But how to differentiate "ruuza" and "rooza" in pronunciation. Examples will help.
You're right. I listened to it again and provided an explanation in the EDIT of my answer above. Please check it out :-)
I guess the problem is in the last letter 'aa'. Adverbs end in this letter and in that case the letter has (optional) two little ligns added (ـًأ)which changes the sound from 'aa' to 'an'. In this context however it should be roozaa.
Is there a way to make the lettering larger? ....and not yellow? I cannot read the word.
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If you're doing your lessons on a smart phone, try doing them on a PC. I use a PC and have not seen yellow words. Turn in a Bug Report to Duolingo, as well. Most everyone is having problems with the small Arabic print. On a computer, "ctrl +" will enlarge what's on the screen and "ctrl 0" will bring the screen back to normal size. What have you been doing your lessons on BTW?
Ok, this is frustrating, Duo. This whole lesson so far with the names is violating everything the previous lessons taught. These characters, according to the prior lessons, should map to r-uu-z-aa, and yet Ruuzaa is not accepted. Rethink the logic for this lesson and its placement, please.
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In the alphabet section, we were being taught the sounds of the Arabic letters using Roman letters to represent them. "r-uu-z-aa" is the transliteration of the sounds of the Arabic letters روزا, not the translation of the word into it's English meaning: Rosa. We're being asked for the translation of the word here, not for the transliteration
There are three vowel sounds (it is said, even though I have been hearing many more than three sounds in the lessons) that are pronounced both short and long: "a, aa, u, uu, i. ii". Currently our lessons are introducing names of people, countries, and cities; such as George, Rosa, Carrie, Korea, Riga etc. There is a generally recognized way to spell people's names and the names of countries and cities: Rosa is R-o-s-a, George is G-e-o-r-g-e, and Korea is K-o-r-e-a etc. The problem is that the sounds of Arabic letters and English letters don't always line up. There are sounds that we have that they don't have and vice versa. So, we both try to represent the sounds in our spellings the best we can, but they don't always line-up. Take the name "Rosa": Arabic and English both have an R sound, but, we pronounce it differently. We use ر though. Arabic does not have the (same) "o" sound, the closest we can get is the elongated "u" sound (uu) و. S is the next letter. Arabic has an "s" sound with س. But, Rosa's "s" sounds like a "z", so the Arabic letter ز is used. Now, we come to alif "ا": the elongated "a" sound (aa). Hence روزا. (The pronunciation on the recording is a whole other story.) If Arabic speakers were writing the Spanish pronunciation of "Rosa" in Arabic, the letters would be different because the Spanish pronunciation of Rosa is different than the English pronunciation of Rosa.
I hope I've been able to help you a bit with my explanation.
Thank you for your well-thought-out reply. I appreciate it. I do still think the lesson placement sets us up to stumble or completely miss their intent because they've focused strictly on sounds to this point and then violate everything they just taught, but I see your point about transliteration vs. translation.
It helps if you use common sense. They showed the name Rosa many times, so why would you think to write Ruuzaa?
Apart from the difference between transliteration and translation, I think we must remember that we are in module "Alphabet 2". We are still learning the alphabet. What are translations doing in here? At the same time, I think that the transition from Alphabet 1 to Alphabet 2 is too radical. In Alphabet 1, we learned and practiced separated letters: the vowels a, aa, ii and uu, and the consonants d, r, z, and the use of ii and uu as consonants y and w. All shown as sounds or transliterations, I have no idea whether the combinations of letters used in Alphabet 1 represent actual words. Suddenly, in Alphabet 2, we get new consonants: j, k, b and a d with a dot above that is represented as dh, plus we find them joined up in ways that change their shape, for example, a b followed by aa loses the upward curved loop on its left hand end, which is completely replaced by the aa. This is a lot to take in so suddenly. And we only get 2 lessons to learn and practice them before we suddenly run into translations without even knowing that they are translations, since the instructions say "Write this in English", not "Translate this". In contrast, in Alphabet 1 there were 5 levels with several lessons in each level. This whole module, Alphabet 2, needs a rethink. On the other hand, I have now discovered that if you hover the mouse over the arabic text, it shows the correct answer. And in most cases, we are dealing with the way in which people's names are represented using the arab alphabet. But "and" is still a translation.
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I totally agree! It's my first try with Arabic and in lection one I was sooo happy that I'm able to learn arabic letters! Why can't we go on in this speed until we have learned all letters an then start to combine them? The people who already know the Arabic alphabet do have the opportunity to make a test and skip this issue! We beginners don't slow them down. Four lections for coming from 7 or 8 letters to whole words? I think I have to restart the whole course again and again because it's not possible to restart only the last lection!
Some letters can’t take attachments after them because then they would look like other letters. For example, if you were to attach a letter after ز it would look like ن which when attached, looks like نـ
Just to make sure I got this right from the people commenting, و can sometimes be read as uu or as oo (with the o as in "door")?
Why do these names sound weird? Translators are usually instructed to record complex words and long sentences (a passage perhaps) from which individual sounds are clipped and stitched to form audio for these lessons. Why? Cost-effectiveness. I believe that the translators are paid by word, so having to record each letter individually is going to be pretty expensive.
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I hear "Ruuzan" too. The written word should be pronounced like “Ruuzaa”
