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- Topic: Arabic >
- "سَمَك جَديد بارِد"
54 Comments
809
Why cold new fish but not new cold fish? I don't understand well enough to know why, and I am not sure how much other study I would have to do to find out elsewhere, so I ask here
- 55
yes, both answers should be accepted, since all of them are understandable in English (even though the order "cold new fish" is prefered)
When there's a list of adjectives, they go in reverse order when translating. If they are around the word "and" they stay in order around the word "and"
- 616
If you change the order of the adjectives, you change the meaning of the sentence. If you say "a cold new fish", the meaning is a new fish that is cold. If you say "a new cold fish" it means you have, or have had, other fish that are cold and you're just adding another cold fish to the collection.
I'd say both combinations should be accepted as both words are in an indefinite article.
An article in English is either “a” or “the”. Apparently in Arabic there’s only “the” (and “a” isn’t used).
“The” is a definite article, it tells you there is only one and it’s this one. Google tells me “the” = ال
“A” is an indefinite article, it tells you it’s just one of many.
- 331
Rumactree:
One of the meanings (ال) is that the thing with (ال) is already known by the listener.
So, السمكُ means we know which fish it is, while سمكٌ means we don't know, it's just a general fish.
Yes I agree. I know in English there is a correct order for most adjectives, but gold new fish and new cold fish mean two different things.
Not a correct order, a natural order.
"The big fat golden man" is nk more correct than "The golden fat big man". The native speaker will prefer a certain order for MOST cases, not because it is more or less correct but because of the neutrality of emphasis achieved in matching those around you. They will then change the order or use tonal inflection to provide emphasis or additional meaning.
Generally if used not used in the way a native speaker would use it then it may sound odd, but nothing more.
- 616
There are grammatical rules for the order of adjectives in English it's basically: quantity, size, shape, age, color, origin, religion, material, type, purpose.
- 327
Yes, Away54, but it should be "we know which fish it is". Otherwise, the dependent clause (which fish...) has no subject. "is" needs a subject.
- 331
I see! Thanks so much for the correction, KatieC, I have edited my comment above -- but, I guess you have replied the wrong comment :))
Update: we got downvotes but our comments are legitimate.
It should be accepted. I wrote new cold fish. New was before cold in the arabic sentence so isn't then more correct?
- 327
BasmaSol8m1. But adjectives in Arabic come after the noun, contrary to English. So if your order is the same as the Arabic, it's likely to be wrong.
انا عربي واقول لك لغتنا صعبه جداََ وقليلاََ جداََ يستطيعون دراستها وفهمها
It says, "I am an Arab and I tell you our language is very difficult and very few people can study and understand it".
Because English is a stupid language with too many rules that have no logic, and the rules have exceptions. It matters how you order adjectives in English but not so much in a lot of other languages.
The correct pronunciation (notice that I stretched the spaces between the letters to make it easier to pronounce): سَــمَـــكٌ جَــدِيــدٌ بَــارِد.
Pronunciation in English alphabet: samakun jadeedun baarid (or jadiidun according to this course).
Now, I’m sure you have already noticed the small marks above or below almost every word you’ve encountered so far. They’re called حَرَكَات - Harakaat (marks), and each mark has one shape. Amongst them, there are three double marks, and they’re called Tanween. They only come at the end of a word like this
بابٌ - baabun
باباً - baaban
بابٍ - baabin
Here's the answer: When a word that has a Tanween mark above or below it is at the end of a sentence, don’t pronounce the Tanween mark. If it’s not at the end of the sentence, you will have two options. Either you stop at it or you don’t. If you stop, you don’t need to pronounce the Tanween mark. Not stopping means you need to pronounce it.
So basically they are pronounced during the sentence, and not at stops
Thanks for your help
- 730
That's all well, but in the sentence I'm seeing, the little -in, -an and -un marks are missing but are still pronounced... is this a mistake or is it ok to leave out the marks?
The record is not right it should be سَمَكٌ جَديدٌ بارِدٌ samakun jadeedun baaridun and baaridun will be pronounced baarid if you stopped on it
WTH is "new cold fish?" Is it genetically engineered, an as yet unknown fish? I called it "fresh" just so it would make sense.
But the Arabic phrase means new, not fresh. Indeed a bit silly, but anything to use the little vocabulary one has acquired.
- 616
The Arabic word can mean "new" or "fresh". If you went to a pet shop and bought a fish to replace the one the cat had eaten, that would be a "new fish".
If the order of adjectives doesn't matter, 'cold new fish' should be an accepted answer
- 749
cold new fish...new cold fish...no difference in English...adjectives in English are imprecise and the order here would not essentially change the meaning of the phrase. Neither phrase alone would mean much, both would sound ridiculous. New fish is not something we would say in English...fresh fish, fresh frozen fish people would buy...cold new fish would sound fishy.
So in spoken language is always a sound between the words? I thought "un" comes after subject, what is the "i?" Sound after jadiid? -- sorry my mobile didn't show the other answers, so i change my question to: where are the Tanween marks?
I understand, I think, after reading the other comments...I was getting a series of questions wrong because i was translating the sentence word for word. It wants us to show how we would say it in english...sentences make little sense because they are created from the small pool of arabic script we have learned so far in these lessons
Am I the only singing this like "A Whole New World" every time it comes up?
Again being shown a question without having been shown these words or some of these characters before, and no option to view the meanings. Hmmmm.
New cold fish means the cold fish is new whereas cold new fish means the new fish is cold.
