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"Palestine is an important historic place."

Translation:فِلَسْطين مَكان تاريخِيّ مُهِمّ.

June 26, 2019

64 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nomad.sarah

Why would historic (تاريخي) need to be placed before important (مهم) for this sentence to be correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephanieF28

I don't know for sure, but an earlier similar question said that the adjective that was least subjective goes closest to the noun. Similar to english that way. For example: pretty, pink ball. Pretty is a matter of opinion, so is furthest from the noun. Then take that and apply it to the Arabic translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

Stephanie isn't wrong, why the downvote? Saying "Palestine is a historic important place" doesn't make sense, because in a way, "important" is describing the historicity as much as it is describing Palestine itself, so it needs to come before both in English, and after both in Arabic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben837613

Historicity isn't a word


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sarahdye2

Of course it is!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corona212

Is the meaning differs if we put muhim at the first place? Or any of grammatical stressing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brockelmann

Is this a forum where we argue about Israel-Palestine conflict/solution or a place where all we gather to learn a new language? I think we seriously need responsible forum moderators here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

I wouldn't be surprised if the course contributors made this sentence specifically so it would get this kind of feedback, as an act of cyber-activism or something. Consider it a chance to learn about this aspect of Arab culture: if you join a Arab facebook group about, say, coding or selling old clothes or what have you, most of the posts will actually be religious proselytising and pictures of, like, a horse with the face of an eagle with the caption "Praise God!" People will blare the Quran on their radios in the street, and if you complain about how loud it is, you'd get called an atheist. Arabs think bringing up their religious and political causes at every opportunity is a kind of commitment that should be commended.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kallistrate

You know what would be really cool and helpful is if someone answered questions about the language lesson, rather than inserting off-topic opinions about the sentence subject.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiliAllouche

Why are you presenting yourself like that? is there something that you wanted to say? or to bark ? :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiselaPosc

I need an answer to yhe grammar question.... Please! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sina1980

مکان؟ او بلد؟


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EliDaian

It should be: إسرائيل مكان تاريخي مهم.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben837613

MHm should be first and there should be "w" before historic. 20210203


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

And no amount of trolling or downvoting my other comments is going to change that you're wrong about this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben837613

I've been speaking Arabic for over twenty years tsuj1g1r. I was an interpreter for over ten. I'm not trolling you, I'm telling you. Arabic does not have a comma so when there is more than one adjective, they use "w" Read any newspaper, magazine, pamphlet, or even, Allah forbid, talk to a native-speaker. You may learn something. 20210203


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

I am a native speaker, Ben. And we have commas, we just write them upside down. And we don't just use "w" willy-nilly between adjectives. It actually has a context where it is appropriate and a context where it is not, which I explained before in a comment on here:

"It depends on whether the adjectives 'intersect' or not. Like how in Spanish, if you say "un amigo viejo" ("an old friend"), the person you're describing happens to be both a friend and an old person, but the oldness doesn't describe the friendship itself, he could be a new friend. But if you say "un viejo amigo," you mean a friend whose friendship has lasted for a long time. Likewise, if you think the bigness and the coldness of the garage are somehow related, that the fact that it is big is the reason that it is cold or vice verse, you wouldn't use the و, but if it simply happens to be both cold and big, but could become small, and the coldness wouldn't be affected, or hot, and the bigness wouldn't be affected, you would,"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben837613

There are no commas in this sentence and there is no context with which to justify why one word order is more correct than the other. Using a "w" in this case would be more correct. 20210204


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

That's because you don't use commas between adjectives in Arabic; you don't use و as a big comma either though! And there is a context: the English translation. If the English had said "Palestine is a historic and important place," however clunky that would have sounded, we would have used the equally clunky Arabic translation you provided. But the ONLY valid translation for the English as it currently stands is the one offered. Ready to take your own advice and listen to the native speaker, or does Allah forbid it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/r65E4

This phrase is a lie


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mancho.Fergany

the land belongs to the indigenous Palestinian of all religions and not to the occupied European Zionists.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mancho.Fergany

The Zionists killed the Palestinians, destroyed their homes and stole their lands, with a religious claim that does not bind the Palestinians to anything. The Zionists have nothing to do with peace.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiliAllouche

If the "Zionists killed the Palestinians" how come there are more Palestinians now? How come the Zionists don't kill them all now? You are ignorant and only stupid people will actually believe your evil antisemitic propaganda


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401

Just to remind you that palestinians were collaborating with hitler. Plestinias killed Jewish people in Israel. They still trying to do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdullah_Al-Araj

ONE Palestinian collaborated with Hitler, you can’t stereotype an entire nationality on one person’s actions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401

So, It is not OK for me to stereotype but it is Ok for you? for example, when you write that Jewish people in Israel came from Europe. well, In1948 there were about 1,000,000 Jews in Muslim Countries. These days there are only about 26,000 of them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries). A large number of them came to Israel which means that at least not all Jewish people are from Europe. So you are crying about Plaestinians loosing their homes, but what about 1,000,000 Jews from Muslims countries? Or ,aybe it is OK by you that Jews will be forced out of thier homes. Your hatered is so deep, your prejudice is so extensive that even mentioning the term "co-existance" raises so mauch resistance by you. That probably "justify" your attemps to eliminate the Jews. I really thinks it is time to stop this irrational war and choose life over death.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401

Are you sure?only one person? https://timeline.com/nazis-muslim-extremists-ss-6824aee281d2 Looks like muslims did not need any reason to slaughter Jewish people


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdullah_Al-Araj

You are stereotyping Muslims as well as Palestinians now. The article stated “a small division” which indicates that it was a small group of people. It also stated that Hitler was using Muslims as a tool and was manipulating them. Many more Germans knew about Hitler’s atrocities than Muslims did. Does that mean all Germans are evil or anti-Jewish? You can’t make all of a race something because of a small group.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mancho.Fergany

The land does not belong to religion but belongs to those who inhabit it, and the Zionists came from Europe to occupy the land of others


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiliAllouche

The Zionism is a movement of restoration of the Jews to their homeland. It is not what you are trying to describe as a colonialist European movement. This is not the first time that the Jews come back to their home from exile. It happened also about 2,500 years ago at the Koresh decleration that allowed the Jews living their their Babilonian exile to return back to their home in Israel. The too, there were people that took the houses of the Jews and claimed that it's theirs. those people no longer exist. We are the Jews. the eternal people with the longest traditions and memories. We have patience. We want to live in peace and we believe that the unpeaceful will eventually lose.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mancho.Fergany

If the Zionists could kill all the Palestinians, they would. And the Palestinians increase because they live with hope and the Zionists will be defeated because they live on a lie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChaimFr

Do you live in a country that has never experienced war and bloodshed? Do you live in a country that has never experienced racism and oppression? Do you live in a country that has existed for 7,000 years and has never conquered and/or been conquered? Where do you live Mancho.Fergany? I left the USA and have been living in Israel for 40 years. Why? It's the only place in the world where a secular, agnostic Jew like myself can enjoy living a secular Jewish life. The holidays are my holidays. The language is my language (which I acquired through hard work) - HEBREW. To my amazement my four children speak Hebrew. And one more thing - I'm a Semite like my Arab neighbors and students, and I love ARABIC. Jews, Muslims, Druze, Christians and others shall overcome. A Palestinian State will be established and Israel will continue to exist as the ONLY homeland for the Jewish People. And once again, Mancho.Fergany, where do you live? Tell us about your wonderful country which was established only through the grace of God, and not by armed warfare, expulsions and invariably - some lies.

انا بحب عربي و رح اكمل اتعلم لان هذا مهم الي جدًا و بدي سلام٠ انا كنت في حرب وهذا اسوا٠

In Hebrew "Cherev" = sword, and is the root for words having to do with destruction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401

This is a lie that you tell yourself. The facts are that arabs in isresl (palestinians) live better than in any other arab country.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiliAllouche

True, the Palestinians that home for the defeat of the Zionists live in a lie. At least we agree on that. You may continue living in this lie and try to re-write the history of the land of Israel while we grow stronger and do good to the world.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401

And what about the occupying Arabs. Jewish people lived there before there were any Muslims. Your attempt to fix the starting point for the history of this area more1500 after it actually started is false. Now why is your argument is either Israel or Palestine. Why the Palestinans never missed an opprtunity to miss an opportunity to try and live together.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdullah_Al-Araj

Indigenous of ALL religions. He has nothing against the indigenous Arab Jews. All he is saying is that the colonizers have no right there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401

Exactly my pont. Jerusalem was built by King David centuries before Muhamed. Palestinians have no right there. This is only one example


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdullah_Al-Araj

I was born in my land, as were hundreds of generations of my ancestors. You have maybe three generations at most in the land.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401

This after we were forced out of our homeland. Still you have no right in eastern Jerusalem, yet you are not forced out as you did to us all over the Muslim world. And still you are stuck in this "all or non" policy trying to eliminate Jewish people all over the world as well as your own opposition. Spending your resources on war and hate instead of democracy science and education.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rr7yDt

Palestine is not a real place. Israel is an important historic place


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ina589468

You obviously have not any historic knowledge or you are trying to spread Israeli hasbara here. As for Israel it is a colonial oppressing country that tries to etnically cleanse Palestinians from their historic cities and villages


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiliAllouche

Are you delirious? Give me some historic fact about "Palestine" if you will . OMG. people here lost it completely. Hasbara, Hhahahahahha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SofiaKhan3

Not only Arabs but foreigners and christians are also facing discrimination in Israel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401

As far as history concerns -King David built jerusalem more than 1000 years before Mohamed. As far as ethnical cleaninig concerns just notice how many jews live in PA territories (0) and how many Arans live in Israel (over 2 milions). And also, if Israel is so racist how come most Israely-Arabs would not give up their Israeli ID for a Paletenian one? (Answer: they live better in Istael than in any other Arab country in the world). This is not Hasbara. These are facts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdullah_Al-Araj

First of all, there are around 800,000 Jews who live in the West Bank, so your claim that no Jews live in Palestine is false. Second of all, the Palestinians living in what is now called "Israel" would not give up their Israeli passports because they want to stay in their land. Their ancestors have lived there for thousands of years and they don't want to leave.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-tMTb

and I am one of them!!! (999 dislike)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yab401
  1. In PA teritories there are no Jews. Please read carefully.
  2. We see many Arabs leave their homeland when things getting tough. Israeli Arabs prefer live in Israel than in any other Arab country. Which means their situation in Israel are better for them than in any other Arab country.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdullah_Al-Araj

First of all, almost all Arabs in what is now called "Israel" live in ghetto communities separated from their Jewish neighbors by physical and financial barriers. You have not addressed my point either, they stay there because they were there for a long time and don't want to move. There are currently over 65 laws that discriminate against the Arab minority. Eight out of ten of the poorest cities in Israel are Arab cities. They have to go to poorly-funded Arab schools. They prefer to live in Israel because it is their land and they want to stay on their land, not because they are treated better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirDaoud333

giliAlouchi as a Palestinian with Israeli ID card and living in Israel we do face discrimination and racism on a daily basis. We aren't allowed to live in certain neighborhoods and towns in Israel (that is why almost all Arabs in Haifa live in either Wadi Nissnas or Abbas districts because these two districts are the only districts that palestinains are permitted to live in). There are countless laws that discriminate the Arabs (nation state law being one of them) and e go to poorly funded schools in poorly funded towns that even showing it to a forigner would depict a picture that israel as a developing 3rd world country. Now please stop the fighting and enjoy learning a language please. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiliAllouche

No Israeli Arabs live in no Ghettos! What are you talking about? You are so ignorant and that explains your hate towards the Jews. I lived in Israel with Jews and Arabs in the same neighborhoods, going out together, studying together, working together and some even serve the army together.
There are absolutely no laws to discriminate against Arabs. Unlike mist Arab countries, Israel is not discriminating against its minorities. In fact, Israel is the best place for any Arab to grow up in. Both for security and educational point of views. Have you ever been to Israel? Where do you come up with all this crap?

Israeli Arabs are free to live wherever they want in Israel. Not every Jew can live in an Arab village though. It's true, that many of the Arab towns are poor. It's not because of poor funding, quiet the opposite, The government is spending much more in these towns compared to the Jewish majority cities but they are also much more corrupt and much less taxing their own citizens.

I wish you actually talked to an Arab Israeli to tell you that and teach you how ignorant you are.

I am willing to take a call with you if you want and discuss it with you.

It's not a perfect world and so is Israel. not perfect to anyone, but it's the best place for an Arab to live in the middle east, that's for sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiliAllouche

What are you talking about? There are no Jews living under the "Palestinian Authority. Nothing. zero. Also, Most of what you call "Palestinians" are mostly Egyptians and some Bosnians and Syrians that came to the land of Israel that was once named Palestina as part of a large mpvement of people before WW1 and after that war. I can name you the villages and their origin in Egypt and other places.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdullah_Al-Araj

Let me respond to each of your points calmly and in a chronological order.

You are partially correct, 'ghetto' may be a strong word for it, but it is true that the average Muslim or Christian Arab has a lot less income than the average Jew.

Second, I never said anything that indicates that I am close-minded and never said or indicated that I hate Jews. There are, in fact, many laws that do discriminate against Arabs. The Nakba Law is one of these laws. It states that Israel has the right to suspend funding to any institution if it holds an activity that commemorates Israel's Independence Day as a mournful day. The Nation-State Law is another anti-Arab law that Israel has. It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.” Basically saying, anyone who is not Jewish has no right to this land. Israel is NOT one of the best places for an Arab to live, unless said Arab is Jewish. I have been to Israel many times. This is not 'crap,' it is simply facts.

I did not understand most of your third paragraph because it had too many undefined pronouns and I can not respond to it.

I have talked to Arab Israelis (I have many relatives living in Nazareth, Haifa, and Acre), and they all say the same things that I have told you.

Israel is definitely not the best place for an Arab to live in the Middle East. Jordan and Qatar are two countries that I can name off the top of my head that are much better for an Arab than Israel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiliAllouche

I appreciate the calm manner and much more kind way that you chose to continue this discussion. I will do my best to do the same. I also want to commend you for taking back the word that describes the death station that was created specifically and ultimately for Jews during WW2.

Israel didn't make any law that yo umentioned. It didn't make a Nakba Law. You can call Nakba to a law that defines Israel and the home of the Jewish people which it is and it was since the birth of Israel which made it the only state in the world that is a home to the Jewish people. Isn't Egypt a Muslim country? or Iraq? or Ian or Jordan or Saudia? How many Muslim countries do you want? why can't the Jews have their state?

The law only reinstate the said in the decleration of independence of Israel that was written back in 1948. It added nothing new. It says nothing about the rights of the citizens of Israel on the land nor does it discriminate in any way any citizen, be it a Jew, an Arab, a Druz or any other minority. It only defines Israel as a Jewish state. Just like Denmark is a danish state. No more, no less.

Education rates in Israel as well as wealth is actually in favor of the Christian Israeli community. Mostly Arab. then the Jews and then the Muslim. It was like that from the beginning for many reason, mostly educational and way of life. It is not a government policy. In fact it's exactly in contrary to any government policy, especially of Netanyahu who spent the most money by far in closing those gaps.

As I said, it was was always like that but it's getting better. It's also true with other populations in Israel. It's true with Ethiopian Jews and to some degree with Arab Jews, like myself. Something about myself. I was born to an Arab Jewish family and I am very proud of that. My family was way under the poverty line. We didn't play a blame game or cried that we are being mistreated, we invested in education. it made a difference. It is the same story now with many Arabs in Israel. The education system is actually allowing Arabs easier access to the university and ease their payment to their education, much more than the Jews in order to close that gap and it works. Is it perfect? No! Can we do more? Yes and we need to.

I believe in co-existence. I don't see Arabs as my enemies but rather as my brothers. I am sad and angry at times at some Arabs choice making but I think that eventually, we are living together better than fighting each other. Did you ever meet an Israeli?

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