"اَلْكِتابة شَيْء مُهِمّ."

Translation:Writing is an important thing.

June 27, 2019

18 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nponery

How would using kitaba instead of al-kitaba change the meaning


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaEE

Here are some examples of different phrases:

شيءّ مهمٌّ

an important thing (a noun and a adjective, both of them undefined)

الكتابةُ شيءّ مهمٌّ

Writing is an important thing (a nominal sentence, al-kitaabatu (the writing) is the subject (المبتدأ) and shay'un muhimmun (an important thing) is the predicate (الخبر))

الكتابةُ شيءّ

Writing is a thing (a nominal sentence, al-kitaabatu is the subject and shay'un is the predicate) (I don't know if this sentence makes sense in Arabic though)

الكتابةُ مهمّةٌ

Writing is important (a nominal sentence, al-kitaaabatu is the subject and muhummatun is the predicate, note that muhimmatun is in feminine form, because it functions as an adjective and should therefore follow the noun)

كتابةُ شيءٍ

Writing of a thing (pronounciation: kitaabatu shay'in) (an idafa contruction, you can tell that it is an idafa because the first word has no al- in the beginning but ends in ُ and not ٌ and the last words ends in genitive (i or in))

كتابةُ مهمٍّ

Writing of (an) important (pronounciation: kitaabatu muhimmin) (an idafa construction) (muhimmin functions as a noun here and is is therefore not in feminine case (but could be maybe), many Arabic words can function as noun or adjective depending of the situation, but I am not sure if this particular example makes much sense)

كتابةُ شيءٍ مهمٍّ

Writing of and important thing (an idafa construction) (The word importantant (muhimmin) functions as an adjective to thing (shay'in))

The meaning of a phrase and if it is correct or not depends much of the final vowels. The problem is that the final vowels are not written in most of the questions in Duolingo (maybe reasonable because they are not in most Arabic writing either).

الكتابةُ شيءٌ مهمٌّ = writing is an important thing

is probably a more common phrase than

كتابةُ شيءٍ مهمٍّ = writing of and important thing

but both of them are still correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Divenzi

wouldn't شيءّ مهمٌّ mean "a thing is important" instead of "an important thing" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Divenzi,

"A thing is important" is:

الشيءُ مُهِمٌّ.

Edit: my answer is wrong, the correct one is tsuj1g1r1's below. I don't understand English logic for Arabic much; English is too different compared to my mother tongue. My apology! (I had tried to answer the question above because there was no response for 6 months).

Update:

(1) "a thing is important" doesn't carry much meaning in English according to at least two native English speakers. (So, the discussion below is not useful. Should I delete them? Hmm).

(2) Both كل الشيء مهم and كل الأشياء مهمة are valid in Arabic according to at least two Arabic teachers. My answer is also correct! الحمدلله -- even though someone marks my sentence wrong. Also, no one gives me a lingot and I give a lingot for each tsuj1g1r1's comment. :))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

Yes, but in English, "a thing" can mean "all things" sometimes, like it does here. "A man has to live by his principles" means "Men, in general, have to live by their principles" and not "There is just one man in the world who has to live by his principles." When "a/an something" comes as a مبتدأ in English, it normally means this, and so it makes sense to make the مبتدأ in Arabic استغراقي.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

شرح ممتع، جزاكم الله خيرا!

Thanks tsuj1g1r1! All make sense now - "everything makes sense now" :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

tsuj1g1r1, الشيء مهم can also means "a thing is important", ie. كل الشيء. I was correct, but why did you do this to me? You should support my comments, 100% :((

...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

Your sentence translates to "The thing is important." الأشياء مهمة is how we'd normally say "A thing [as a general rule] is important."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Ah I see! Thanks tsuj1g1r1 ... is it ال الجنسية لإستغراق أفراد الجنس?

الأشياء مهم مهمة

But can we use ال الجنسية لبيان حقيقة الجنس here?

الشيء مهم (or I am wrong)

I mean why should we use الأشياء (plural)?

Nb: I am so sorry I don't have much English terms. I have found many difficulties when I should say Arabic terms in English, and my English becomes awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Tsuj1g1r1, thanks so much for the lesson! (1) about ة، I guessed it was my eyes' problem (or, I forgot to put it? I should have already known it). (2) I am not a native English speaker, still try to learn what the English "indefinite" concept is exactly (ie. to be connected to Arabic terms). And, you have said "(as a general rule)" before, for me that have made me think it as either الإستغراقية or الحقيقية ie. according to my mother tongue language. Here people use English terms which oftentimes are not understandable.

Have a lingot! Hope you're not angry :))

Nb: once I had been in Classical for years, tsuj1g1r1 but then as * a non-native Arabic speaker, "non-human" programming languages stuffs has blurred my Classical a lot.

Anyway, thanks again ❤❤


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Ah I see, thanks tsuj1g1r1! When we say 2al-2istighraaqiyya, in my mother tongue, it is translated as "all things" and not "a thing" (as "a thing" means "just one thing" in my so-difficult mother tongue's). ...

بارك الله فيكم.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Without ال it would be wrong in this case. When talking about things in general, using a general statement like that, you need ال. It's like French in that way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaSsGaz

If you omit al- then you're referring to what's being written 'Writing ...something...'. But with al- you're referring to the act of writing itself 'Writing is ...'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

No, in this sentence you have to use al- otherwise it’s wrong. To refer to a specific written text using this sentence, you’d add هذه in the beginning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

It wouldn't be incorrect; it just wouldn't be a sentence, but a phrase: "writing an important thing"

What do you mean about هذه?

هذه كتابة شيء مهم

هذه الكتابة شيء مهم

Neither translates "Writing... something..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bebatjof

I selected kitaba (without al-), thinking it would mean "the writing of an important thing". Why isn't that accepted?

I know that duolingo didn't teach us this construction yet at this point, but I think it shouldn't tell me I'm wrong if my answer is possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaEE

"the writing of an important thing" is an idafa construction in Arabic. This is how you would write it: كِتَابَةُ الشَيءِ المُهِمِّ (kitaabatu ash-shay'i al-muhimmi)

كِتَابَةُ (kitaabatu) is the first word of the idafa construction. The first word of the idafa construction never has al before it (but it ends in u or a or i just like words with al before it, and it is considered definite).

الشَيءِ (ash-shay'i) is the second and last word of the idafa construction. If that is definite, it means the whole idafa construction is definite.

المُهِمِّ (al-muhimmi) is an adjective to الشَيءِ

As I wrote in my comment above, if you want to say "writing of an important thing" it would also be an idafa construction and look like this: كِتَابَةُ شَيءٍ مُهِمٍّ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

Your first phrase translates to "the writing of the important thing." To say "the writing of an important thing," we'd use your last example. "A writing of an important thing" would be the exact same thing though, so the definiteness of كتابة would be ambiguous in this context.

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