1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Arabic
  4. >
  5. "اَلْكِتابة شَيْء مُهِمّ."

"اَلْكِتابة شَيْء مُهِمّ."

Translation:Writing is an important thing.

June 27, 2019

29 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nponery

How would using kitaba instead of al-kitaba change the meaning


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaEE

Here are some examples of different phrases:

شيءّ مهمٌّ

an important thing (a noun and a adjective, both of them undefined)

الكتابةُ شيءّ مهمٌّ

Writing is an important thing (a nominal sentence, al-kitaabatu (the writing) is the subject (المبتدأ) and shay'un muhimmun (an important thing) is the predicate (الخبر))

الكتابةُ شيءّ

Writing is a thing (a nominal sentence, al-kitaabatu is the subject and shay'un is the predicate) (I don't know if this sentence makes sense in Arabic though)

الكتابةُ مهمّةٌ

Writing is important (a nominal sentence, al-kitaaabatu is the subject and muhummatun is the predicate, note that muhimmatun is in feminine form, because it functions as an adjective and should therefore follow the noun)

كتابةُ شيءٍ

Writing of a thing (pronounciation: kitaabatu shay'in) (an idafa contruction, you can tell that it is an idafa because the first word has no al- in the beginning but ends in ُ and not ٌ and the last words ends in genitive (i or in))

كتابةُ مهمٍّ

Writing of (an) important (pronounciation: kitaabatu muhimmin) (an idafa construction) (muhimmin functions as a noun here and is is therefore not in feminine case (but could be maybe), many Arabic words can function as noun or adjective depending of the situation, but I am not sure if this particular example makes much sense)

كتابةُ شيءٍ مهمٍّ

Writing of and important thing (an idafa construction) (The word importantant (muhimmin) functions as an adjective to thing (shay'in))

The meaning of a phrase and if it is correct or not depends much of the final vowels. The problem is that the final vowels are not written in most of the questions in Duolingo (maybe reasonable because they are not in most Arabic writing either).

الكتابةُ شيءٌ مهمٌّ = writing is an important thing

is probably a more common phrase than

كتابةُ شيءٍ مهمٍّ = writing of and important thing

but both of them are still correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Divenzi

wouldn't شيءّ مهمٌّ mean "a thing is important" instead of "an important thing" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Divenzi,

"A thing is important" is:

الشيءُ مُهِمٌّ.

Edit: my answer is wrong, the correct one is tsuj1g1r1's below. I don't understand English logic for Arabic much; English is too different compared to my mother tongue. My apology! (I had tried to answer the question above because there was no response for 6 months).

Update: My answer is also CORRECT! الحمدلله -- even though no one gives me a lingot and I give a lingot for each tsuj1g1r1's comment. :))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

Your sentence translates to "The thing is important." الأشياء مهمة is how we'd normally say "A thing [as a general rule] is important."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Ah I see! Thanks tsuj1g1r1 ... is it ال الجنسية لإستغراق أفراد الجنس?

الأشياء مهم مهمة

But can we use ال الجنسية لبيان حقيقة الجنس here?

الشيء مهم (or I am wrong)

I mean why should we use الأشياء (plural)?

Nb: I am so sorry I don't have much English terms. I have found many difficulties when I should say Arabic terms in English, and my English becomes awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

You should focus on learning that الأشياء takes مهمة with a taa2 marboota first become getting bogged in more minor details! But anyway, "a thing is important" in English uses the indefinite article, so how could it possibly translate to an الـ حقيقية? It has to be استغراقية!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Tsuj1g1r1, thanks so much for the lesson! (1) about ة، I guessed it was my eyes' problem (or, I forgot to put it? I should have already known it). (2) I am not a native English speaker, still try to learn what the English "indefinite" concept is exactly (ie. to be connected to Arabic terms). And, you have said "(as a general rule)" before, for me that have made me think it as either الإستغراقية or الحقيقية ie. according to my mother tongue language. Here people use English terms which oftentimes are not understandable.

Have a lingot! Hope you're not angry :))

Nb: once I had been in Classical for years, tsuj1g1r1 but then as * a non-native Arabic speaker, "non-human" programming languages stuffs has blurred my Classical a lot.

Anyway, thanks again ❤❤


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

But only الاستغراقية means 'as a general rule.' Indefinite means 'a/an.' They'd never translate to الحقيقية, since that would simply be 'the' in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Ah I see, thanks tsuj1g1r1! When we say 2al-2istighraaqiyya, in my mother tongue, it is translated as "all things" and not "a thing" (as "a thing" means "just one thing" in my so-difficult mother tongue's). ...

بارك الله فيكم.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

Yes, but in English, "a thing" can mean "all things" sometimes, like it does here. "A man has to live by his principles" means "Men, in general, have to live by their principles" and not "There is just one man in the world who has to live by his principles." When "a/an something" comes as a مبتدأ in English, it normally means this, and so it makes sense to make the مبتدأ in Arabic استغراقي.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

شرح ممتع، جزاكم الله خيرا!

Thanks tsuj1g1r1! All make sense now - "everything makes sense now" :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

tsuj1g1r1, الشيء مهم can also means "a thing is important", ie. كل الشيء. I was correct, but why did you do this to me? You should support my comments, 100% :((

...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

You're wrong. I'm a native speaker and I am 100% certain that you're wrong and that الشيء can NEVER mean "a thing is important." Your Classical Arabic is much worse than you think it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

tsuj1g1r1, in Quran, Allaah said,

إن الإنسان لفي خسر. اي: كل الإنسان.

("2al-2insaan" means "each human" or "all human" or ... I don't know much English)

...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

It's not the same: الإنسان can mean "all human beings," and الشيء can't mean "all things." The names of species and specific kinds of things can be used in the singular to mean the plural, but words for more general and abstract concepts can't. Collective nouns can, and singulatives can't. It's too complicated to explain to you when you're not even willing to learn. You don't know enough to be arguing. You can either accept that and be a little bit closer to understanding your Quran, or you can argue with me because your arrogance matters to you more than that Quran, but then, you'll never understand it.

And as I said, you should focus on improving your basic grammar first before arguing about the finer points of usage. You said كل الإنسان, which means 'the whole human being,' not 'all human beings,' which would be كل الناس. This is the kind of thing that somebody who's been studying Arabic for two months would know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

tsuj1g1r1,

(1) thanks a lot for your reply, regardless whatever you say toward me ... I think we have some miscommunication, I believe it is from mine, because I can't convey what in my mind well.

(2) No, it is not my own conclusion -- but, at least, from two Arabic experts who cannot speak English, while I, myself, my English is still weak to convert their saying. First, I have to deal with two different languages before I write it in English. So, i am so sorry if there is any error. However, we have concluded that, الشيء مهم and الأشياء مهمة are correct.

(3) thanks so much so that's how to translate ال الجنسية للإستغراق الأفراد => the whole human being and ال الجنسية للإستغراق الجنسي => all human beings in English.

(4) In my mother tongue, our translation for both are the same. We say/translate both كل الإنسان = كل الناس same in our language, ie. "all human" or "each human" ? (or I don't know the English terms).

(5) According to your explanation, I should write it as كل الناس. Also, the Arabic expert who speaks only Arabic says,

كل الناس تغني جميع الناس بشكل عام كل الإنسان يختص بها حتى يكون إنسان

(That was I want to say. My thought was correct). So, can we consider كل الإنسان as a typo? At least, I will edit it?

(6) No, I was not intending to debate you (now I am not interested). When I said I could not follow you, it was also not my arrogancy. (I don't know how to say it in English) ... but, if it is true, I truly don't deserve to be here, and I will try to leave this community but after I complete my 365 days strike. Inshaa Allaah

(7) ... //I have deleted this part, you can read it from the mail notification

(8) Because I cannot say English better, so, I think we should end this conversation now, rather than some further misunderstanding. جزاكم الله خيرا.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

tsuj1g1r1 ... And, for my appreciation to your comments, I give you a lingot for each :))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Without ال it would be wrong in this case. When talking about things in general, using a general statement like that, you need ال. It's like French in that way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaSsGaz

If you omit al- then you're referring to what's being written 'Writing ...something...'. But with al- you're referring to the act of writing itself 'Writing is ...'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

No, in this sentence you have to use al- otherwise it’s wrong. To refer to a specific written text using this sentence, you’d add هذه in the beginning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

It wouldn't be incorrect; it just wouldn't be a sentence, but a phrase: "writing an important thing"

What do you mean about هذه?

هذه كتابة شيء مهم

هذه الكتابة شيء مهم

Neither translates "Writing... something..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bebatjof

I selected kitaba (without al-), thinking it would mean "the writing of an important thing". Why isn't that accepted?

I know that duolingo didn't teach us this construction yet at this point, but I think it shouldn't tell me I'm wrong if my answer is possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaEE

"the writing of an important thing" is an idafa construction in Arabic. This is how you would write it: كِتَابَةُ الشَيءِ المُهِمِّ (kitaabatu ash-shay'i al-muhimmi)

كِتَابَةُ (kitaabatu) is the first word of the idafa construction. The first word of the idafa construction never has al before it (but it ends in u or a or i just like words with al before it, and it is considered definite).

الشَيءِ (ash-shay'i) is the second and last word of the idafa construction. If that is definite, it means the whole idafa construction is definite.

المُهِمِّ (al-muhimmi) is an adjective to الشَيءِ

As I wrote in my comment above, if you want to say "writing of an important thing" it would also be an idafa construction and look like this: كِتَابَةُ شَيءٍ مُهِمٍّ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

Your first phrase translates to "the writing of the important thing." To say "the writing of an important thing," we'd use your last example. "A writing of an important thing" would be the exact same thing though, so the definiteness of كتابة would be ambiguous in this context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Azzam4114

Lalu babu babu lalu babu


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Azzam4114

Timberlake at the Elyria

Learn Arabic in just 5 minutes a day. For free.