Leaderboards after clubs
First week impression of leaderboards: Cool! I'm actually more motivated to do extra lessons to get to the top of the list. Also I notice the real top contenders are relatively new people (often less than a 10 day streak).
Second week impression: Great I made it to the silver leaderboard! I am still finding more motivation to do extra work! The very highest winners are still generally new people (low streak count). Where are the 100+ streakers (wait--should I call them that??). By the end of the week, several people put in a ton of XP (cheating? who knows). I'm not in the top 3 but at least I made it in the top ten.
Third week: Now I am in gold. First few days people go crazy with lots of XP. Mostly new people. Hardly any in my language of study (Hebrew). I am not motivated to do more than I normally do. Eh, not worth it. Especially with people waiting till the last few hours and somehow getting tons of XP and passing me up. I have other things to tend to.
Fourth and fifth week. I stay in the golden league. I am in the top 20-ish usually. Mostly newer people score high. Hardly any in my language of study. No more motivation to do extra work.
I miss my clubs where we could chat and answer sometimes fun, sometimes silly questions.
It seems like cheating but if you spam stories that give 30-36 xp each you can get alot of xp in a short amount of time. Duolingo provides no cap so once you have memorized the answers I assume thats how these people are doing it. Duome.eu showed me guys getting 34xp every 2 minutes and just racing past me. I feel like these guys are gonna burn out and lose interest in Duolingo pretty fast.
Duome showed one guy (learning Spanish) was getting 5 xp every seven or eight seconds for hours on end. 5 xp = tinycards. There were hundreds and hundreds of 5's in a long list. To do them repeatedly in 7/8/9 seconds he must have been doing the last batch of tinycards where there are only 2/3/4 cards. Needless to say he came top of the league. Technically DL does allow this but what made it worse was that he bragged that he came top of his league on the forum!!
Yes it shouldn’t be wrong to do Tinycards in order to learn and get xp for learning (you get xp for learning and reviewing on Doulingo too). However, if you design it to get as much xp as possible and then brag about it it’s just wrong.
If I want (I don’t) I can do Italian Phrases and get 10xp every minute. I’m sure there are many other ways to cheat too, and many people probably use them. The new people are probably so enthusiastic that they do Duo for 2 hours non-stop and then quit, so they get to the top of the leaderboard, stop and maybe never come back.
Yes, that was me at the beginning of learning russian. I did lessons non stop for a few hours and since the lessons were relatively easy it didn’t take a lot of time to do each lesson. That day i got 900 something xp but since then it hasn’t been that high haha. I don’t mind though, the lessons are getting a bit harder and take more time and i also study in other ways and not just on Duolingo anymore ☺️
the problem is many people are doing several languages. What do you do with them? Split their points to separate leagues per languages - that would be a punishment. Put all points into their main language?
Yes split them. I find it silly that I am doing lessons in multiple languages and they all count to my xp level on the same leader board.
I by default have more lessons to get through each day, someone who is only doing French only has so many lessons to do before it just becomes monotonous.
The person who has gotten 1000xp in one language has figured out a lot more than my 1000 spread over five languages where I am doing only basic level work (the easy stuff)
Totally split them yes, you're supposed to learn on this website, not to be first on a random leaderboard just cause you farm basic lessons to get a lot of points and feel proud of your profile showing so many little flags (i'm being general, not judging you, i just find it kinda dumb to see so many people learning 15 languages at once, or more, that's not an efficient way to learn)
It's a lot of fun learning lots of languages, especially translating cross-pairs =D I do it because I have a short attention span. When I get bored, I switch language to the next one in the base, or if I've done all for that base for a bit (e.g. Deutsch->X), I switch bases. This helps me to keep learning, even if my overall progress in each language is slow. I also only move on from a lesson when it's golden, so I pretty much have all the phrases memorized, and am finding I naturally tend to think the right answer. Its also interesting seeing the different ways languages say things, and if/how they correlate.
I have to say though, I personally find leaderboards motivating. Someone else here said it - if you're going to only do a few XP per day, or the bare minimum to maintain a streak, you're wasting your time. If I were split into a different leaderboard per language pair, that would greatly reduce motivation to put the effort in.
yes split them. I dont think it is currently fair when someone is doing a lot of languages and can choose to gain more xp faster with just focusing on their easiest to do one for more xp
once you start splitting, you would never stop.... as for example learning Spanish from Italian is completely different then from Chinese. and then there are stories, tiny cards, but not for all languages.... and not all users know about them, and only ones on the web can see them...
It is based on time. All of the people in your league got their first xp of the week at the same time as you, roughly within the span of a few seconds to a minute.
Yepp, that's about it. For the first two weeks I studied normally then on Saturdays, I would breeze through a lot of lessons just to go to the next league or win one of the lingot prizes. Then my normal routine gained enough momentum to raise up without any extra exertion. Since then and now, in the Ruby league, I don't start until the official "League Day" is over by a day (8pm Monday). If you wait a day (until Monday) you are grouped with all the other lazy people. I am at #18 with 205xp, and the guy in the #1 spot has less than 1000xp so far this week. I am really enjoying the non-competitiveness of the lazy leagues.
Unless they've changed anything very recently the groups have always formed based on when you complete your first lesson of the week. There are farrrr too many inactive users for them to assign everyone to a group without starting a lesson. Groups would be half-filled with 0's the whole week.
I think the people on 0 are the ones who have started a lesson so they get put into the league and if they stay at 0 maybe they quit half way through the lesson? Just a guess
I started a 1st lesson aiming to go into a league with a full 15 XP. I quit when I got one wrong and was surprised to see I was still put in a league but at 0 XP. I kinda liked being at dead last in a league that was cranking out a ton of XP. No one would be beating me at being last!
I haven't noticed any people with 0xp in my league, but I will check next Monday when I join the lazy league. By the way, every time I joined directly after the new day started, the leader has always won with over 10,000xp. Last week, I won with 1400xp. Right now, the top position on the leader board has 1173xp and the loser has 10xp. I am pretty sure there were never any people with 0 but, I'll check.
My first league had a couple of people who stayed at 0 XP for most if not all of the week. Unless they only practice their language once or twice a week, I don't think they're active.
I think I found out the answer: People who turn their privacy settings off to public can no longer view the leaderboards; however they remain on them. So when they practice a language, their progress is not reflected upon the board; yet they still appear on the board. They must be distributed according to the time they complete their first lesson for the week. What do you say? Am I right? :))
Never used the app. Always won my league. Usually been late starting, not through laziness - that's just when I have time to practice. Don't care where I come or what others do or do not score, do care how much I'm learning.
If I want to go up a league, I wait till there is just over 1 day left and join then with all the lazies. Unfortunately this means I don't use duolingo as much I would otherwise as i don want to get onto leaderboard till then.
Eh, I've been on Duolingo for a long time. It changes constantly. I don't grow too attached to any new feature.
It's a much MORE sane position to take! Thanks for the Zen reminder. Have a lingot!!! :D
Made terrible error this week of starting at the beginning of the week as was in night shift - Ruby league - normally 50 to 100 peer day is respectable mid table stability - this week to 15 all above 1000 by day 3 and top nearly at 10000 - next well definitely starting in the afternoon. Also missing that chat facility.
I tend to do most of the lessons late at night right before going to bed and that might explain why I have been attending some terrible leagues. Now I was tired on Sunday evening and stopped well before 2 am which was the end of the week (timezone: CEST), and started doing new lessons only on Monday afternoon. This time I was put in a healthier and more balanced league where the next one ahead of you is always within reach, except for the board leader who is already on the run.
Yes, but we are all in countries with different time zones. My new week starts at 2.00 am, Monday morning. So, whilst I am asleep a competitor in a daytime time zone could be overtaking me !!
You can disable the leaderboards by going on "settings, privacy" and turn your "make my profile public" option off.
Adding to Johnjr19's comment, you are cut off from the discussion boards when you turn it off. I had to turn it on because I was looking for DL students to practice speaking my TL. It is very disturbing and limiting.
You will still appear on them to everyone else. It’s just that you can’t see them.
For those that want a quick link to this (yes there are some of us) :
Thank you lie326199 and Johnjr19 for this.
edited: However this is for the the web browsers.
For Android, if you go to your profile ( that is the picture of a person in the bottom bar),
then to Settings,
and scroll down to the second last option for "Leaderboards"
And click the "phone logo" so it is no longer blue.
This will turn off displaying leaderboards (perhaps?)
I still have not tested this out.
On my android App, the Clubs disappeared, but there are no Leaderboards instead. It's strange.
wow - that is strange. Thank you for this report.
Could you check if there is an update to your Duolingo App ?
The Android app version I have is 4.21.2
to find out what version you have, one way I know how to do it is I go to :
Go to Duolingo and hold my finger down until a pop up menu appears that says:
create folder ; App info ; Uninstall ; Cancel
and drag the Duolingo app to "App info"
I'm on the sapphire league (4th level) now but I basically regard the leaderboards like a pointless ratrace. I'm not really competing, just doing my daily stuff (maybe a bit more because I have more free time lately) and happen to be up but I despise competition against others in this context. I'm just interested in learning, not in winning... Winning what? more points than the others? Well if those points really show you learnt sth, then good for you! That's all. My points don't make me better or worse than you.
I'll just quote you because you nailed it with this sentence of yours: "I miss my clubs where we could chat and answer sometimes fun, sometimes silly questions." At least clubs were social spots and potentially creative. They were really more USEfunL. At least for me.
I also miss my club. We chatted and cheered each other on. I wish that I could communicate with them again.
It isn't a progress going from a more intellectual and intelligent product to a sillier one. I tried Leagues to understand how it works. I still believe that Clubs were a more intellectual and intelligent learning tool. I finished all the scale to the Ruby one. I noticed that you can stay in a league and not demoted if you can get 200-300 XPs per week. It is less than my usual score. I tried the Arabic tree and it gave me a lot of XPs, so I have got more than 1000 for this week. Okay. I am not going to get demoted this week. But: I avoid having difficult parts as it is German and the tricky grammatical phenomena. It is quantity against quality. Leagues are full of foolish XPs. And finally on Monday morning I have to contest a completely new leaderboard, indifferent names in a list. Is it stupid or not?
PS. I keep the petition still open: https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/please-save-duolingo-clubs
I will close it since we get the goal of 2500 signatures. It's not much, but it is something.
I agree with you everything you said was right on the money I feel the same way it's a buzz kill
I remember the first day that i started with russian i got 900 something xp in just a few hours because the lessons were quite easy. The further you get the harder the lessons get so it will take more time to get xp.
Another thing i see is that we are all competing against people with different languages. Some might have a generally easier language and some people might have easier to learn a specific language.
Also, Tinycards on the web gives you 5 xp i think for every finished session so that can be a reason too.
This too shall pass. In the almost three years I've been on Duo, I've seen so many changes, that I can only imagine the leaderboards too will fade away at some point. Looking at the load times for web pages and the app, I can only imagine that the leaderboard puts quite a load on the servers. As soon as people get tired of the leaderboards and ignore them, and the site metrics go back down, they'll be replaced with something else.
I've noticed that the top people on the boards are more often than not new learners, so it doesn't appear sustainable.
I'm finding this chase for XP to be motivating and fun. I haven't yet run into the phenomenon of anyone who grinds tasks they already know well just to run up the score, and I agree that competing against someone doing that would be a bit of a buzz kill. However, anything Duo can do to lure me to study for hours on end is positive, even if in the end I don't win a chest full of lingots. My only real objective is to greatly improve my French, maintain my Spanish, and not forget what I already know of my other languages. Any sort of XP race is helpful to keep me at the keyboard every day.
I'm a newbie here with an 8 day streak. I took 4 years of Spanish in Jr. High and High School, but that's been 50 years ago. I have forgotten much. I live in Texas and hear Spanish daily but don't understand much. I go to Cancun about once a year. Visited last week and wanted to improve my Spanish. My bus driver told me that he'd been speaking English for 5 months and learned via DuoLingo. His English was very good, so I decided to visit DuoLingo. I started Spanish lessons from the very beginning. Much of it was things I already knew, and there were many things I had forgotten, and they came back to me quickly. I blazed through the first lessons because of my background, but I felt that I needed to start from the beginning. I didn't know anything about XP and leagues or any of that. In fact, I still don't quite understand it. What I do know is that I'm retired, have lots of time, and feel that DuoLingo is much better use of my time than FB or Reddit. I have over 5000 XP over the past week because of this. I simply enjoy learning the language. I'm first place in my league because of this. The nearest competitor is under 1000 XP. I never thought of it as any kind of competition, and I sure didn't mean to cheat by taking the early lessons. It's getting harder and my XP count is slowing down. My only concern is that I learn the language, as fast as possible. I'm not trying to beat anyone. I spend a lot of time going over my Words list. There is no XP gained from doing this.
I have 116 lingots and have no idea how I earned them. I need to learn the system here.
Don't work about learning the system - stick to learning the language. If you want to play games, go to a gaming site.
To my mind, learning is one of the best human adventures. Enjoy! :)
By the way, this post of yours gave you 3 lingots so far (one of them used to be mine :D)! Now you know where some of those lingots come from... ;)
I have zero motivation to do extra work with leaderboards. I have my rhythm, it works for me and is sustainable. I can see the appeal for new people who are excited to dive deep into their new languages. Any clubs I was in I found that people weren't really talking much to each other, and only a handful would do the exercises. I'm not totally convinced that changing to leaderboards was a bad move, just a lateral one.
I was in many clubs. True, most weren't very busy places but the exceptions were fun and, when a club was too quiet, I was the "noisy" one there. :D There were always sth to do in clubs.
I agree with you that most people aren't cheating. I'm usually in the top three in my league. I do five new lessons in my main language and 2 - 3 in my other four. I don't do any testing out, flashcards, podcasts, etc. It's true that every so often the person in the #1 spot is 1000+ points ahead of everyone else, but so what? If they are putting in the effort to get a lot of XP's, more power to them. Lots of people call it cheating to get XP by going over the easier lessons. I call it review. I have my piano students go back and play out of their previous books all the time...it helps them recognize how much they have learned and that they are progressing, and it helps solidify what they have learned. It always sounds like "sour grapes" to me when I hear people grouching about the high scores some people get.
Thank you for acknowledging that reviewing earlier lessons is very different from cheating, DarahHunsa! I've recently started a new language, which is really taxing my brain. I find that going back and reviewing an easier-to-me language provides relief while still challenging and expanding my existing linguistic skills. I've also been reviewing one of my stronger languages with my child, and the repetition is great for beginners at that stage! Have a lingot!!!
I constantly recap and review, that's how I learn and store things in my long term memory. I am one of those people that will do a story several times. First time just to see what it is generally about, second time to concentrate on the new words, then off to tiny cards to learn the vocab and then the next day to see what I can recall. I do this in addition to working on my tree.
I'm not cheating, I'm learning!
I also review regularly. When I am doing a new lesson I write all of the sentences in a notebook so that I can review the lessons easily. If I make mistakes while doing a review, I will do the review a second time.
I recently got a notebook with that same goal in mind! :D I think that's a good idea and a great way to strengthen your newly acquired knowledge.
Do you get points for redoing lessons you've already done? [I don't think so.] It has been my experience that once you reach the gold level in a skill or level 5, if you go back to that skill, all you can do is do review work for zero extra points. It is just practice. You've already been given the xp points when you worked on the lesson initially. I could be wrong though.
You still get xp for reviewing old material. Most of learning a language is reviewing.
You get points for it. Days that i don’t have a lot of time to learn a new lesson i just review an old lesson. It keeps me from doing new lessons unfocused, i get the streak and i review things i have learned already which makes them get into my long term memory. I think it’s good they give you xp for reviewing since it’s something really important when it comes to language learning.
It took months before I discovered that you can do reviews to maintain your streak. I would come home after a 14 hour day, make too many mistakes, lose health, and have to buy my way out of trouble. Now I enjoy doing reviews when life is busy.
My streak regularly goes down to zero as most days I can practice, but some days I can't. I have never bought my way out and so far, restarting from 1 every couple of weeks has not lead to me dying or even being mildly discomforted.
That's why I'm as high as I am in mine. My spelling in French is really bad so I wasn't doing so good on the placement test, but I know a lot of French already so the first tree is a breeze. (and kind of boring, but hey I'm learning to spell french words now)
I've had a very similar experience with the new leader boards, and I also miss the fun and silly questions in the clubs. I wonder what prompted the change to begin with? Was there a problem with the clubs?
‘Tis true. I miss my Spanish club a lot. We used to chat to each other. I would be prepared to ‘pay’ in Lingots to have my club restored. That would discourage non-active members. Lots of them used to start enthusiastically, then,lose interest. I was the Admin and used to remove them on a weekly basis.
Yes, well at least clubs would be nice, I don't pay much attention to the leaderboard. Finding other people to practice my languages with would be handy.
Yes, I too miss some of the features of clubs. I seem to be stuck on the gold level as well.
With Hindi it is easy to earn thousands of XP in the early stages learning the alphabet etc then it gets more challenging so eventually things even out. I am retired so it's easy to earn 100 XP a day or more
I've been using Duolingo for less than three weeks, so I can't really give an opinion about the former clubs. Nevertheless, the old system sounds much better for me.
At the beginning of this week I saw a girl who already had something like 500 XP points just two hours and half after the shift of weeks. It's ridiculous. If she hasn't hacked the system, she probably just stayed at the first easy lessons of the three or - worst - started a new course of a language she already knew.
So, in my first weeks here the league system stimulated me a little bit but now I just don't care anymore and will probably stay in the golden league. I'm focused on my language learning, not in the project of being the leader of an online game ranking. I'm not so young anymore to spend my time on something like that.
Moreover, apparently the old system allowed more interactions between users which I think it was very important. I understand the concerns with kids using this platform and so on, but why should I follow other users if can't even send a direct message to them?
I see a similar short coming. Now that leagues are not based on a single language and there is no conversational interaction with others, I miss my Spanish club.
I understand that many here are studying several languages and really want competitive credit counted for all their studies. So leagues work great for them. I also see the new trees as a vast improvement over the earlier versions.
I used to test out of skills all the time, when crowns first came out. You got all the points. But now with only 20, from a point perspective, why do it. ( yes when I get bored with a skill I’ll test out for crown four or five). I’m wondering if the 20 point test out applies to all languages now? That might explain the high scores from relatively new learners.
In any case, I’m plugging along working to get the entire tree all gold and all level 5 crowns. It really is a far cry from 30k points needed for the old level 25 status in a language.
I do several other Spanish workouts besides Duo, so my dedication to leagues is minimal.
In any case keep having fun and enjoy your studies!
Great job at getting to Gold League! I'm currently in Sapphire League, which is the next one up. However, I know a friend who has been 1 in Ruby League three times in a row!
Yea, and I notice I can only find my language level from the comments board. I don't see them on my menu anymore. Do miss some of the changes.
I hear you. How do some people crank up so many points in so little time? I suspect that in a few weeks the leagues will settle down to be more like the club system.
I miss my clubs, too. There were even "leave the club" -button. I would like to leave the leagues!!! I am in the golden league. Last week I get along on Tuesday. This week a have already 126 XP:s, but any of them is not accepted!!! It is still locked! I have completed three lessons (on) this week. I reckon I have done wrong exercises. I want to learn languages properly and that is why I want to choice what exercises I do. Now i only want to leave the leagues. I don't even understand which exercises are acceptable! I have already wrote on here somewhere, but I want give you a lingot!