"اِمْرَأة عَرَبِيّة وَرَجُل أَمْريكِيّ"

Translation:an Arab woman and an American man

June 28, 2019

48 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnUnicorn

I do hope they add explanations on when the taa-marbutah is "activated" (which I think is happening here).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

In this case, we pronounced the ة because it has a nunation تنوين on it, which in this case is ٌ so it's as if the ة isn't really the end of the word, because there is an -un sound after it.

For more info about nunation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TinoAriza

-- hey, looks like maybe a typo there, should be تَنْوِيْن ?? --


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirShaker

Yes you’re right. Fixed! Thanks :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph.KqqvUf

My world is carred


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

When the Arabic word for "woman" is clicked on separately it sounds like "imra2ah" but in the sentence, it sounds like "imra2atun". Why is that?

Update: I found out the reason is that nunation (the "-un" suffix that shows the subjective/nominative case) is only affixed to words when they are in sentences. Words by themselves don't have cases, only words in sentences are the subjects, objects, or show possession. "-un" shows that words are the subject of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ian645243

I keep translating this correctly and it keeps telling me im wrong, whats going on?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

The computer is programmed to accept the correct answer. There is no way anyone here can tell you what's going on unless you show us exactly what you wrote.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Majnuna

If I'm understanding nunation correctly, the subject of the sentence gets an -(t)un at the end. So why do all words here have the -un except Amrykiyy? The whole sentence is the subject, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

"An Arab woman and an Arab man" is not a complete sentence because it has no verb. It is just a phrase. Reference the "-un"; it is attached to not only the subject noun but also to all the adjectives that modify it. It is optional to attach it to the last word in a phrase or sentence, and it is not used with foreign names.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fatima164140

It's wierd I wrote the right answer but it marked as wrong im soo confused... The only thing that's different in the whole sentence is that for arab there's a capital a..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sheheryarkhalid

Isn't al-nisa is the word for woman in arabic?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyanEakins1

According to Wiktionary, نِسَاء (nisaa2) is the plural, i.e.: women, rather than woman.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdihamid12

Just by putting capital letter 'A' how is the whole sentence wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

We don't know exactly what you wrote unless you show us. If you wrote "A Arab" or "A American" of course it's wrong. If Duolingo accepted your sentence as correct, it would be doing you a disservice by not correcting your mistake and letting you think that "A Arab" was proper English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuudHier

This makes learning a language less accessible for people who aren't good English speakers though, so something can be said for a bit more leniency.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

So you think Duolingo should lower its standards. You also must think it is an easy job for a programmer, probably a volunteer, to program in every possible grammatical and spelling error for every single word of both Arabic and English so that people who don't like spending a minute to redo a sentence aren't upset. No one would learn anything if nothing was wrong and every error was accepted as being correct.

This class was specifically designed for English speakers.

There is also an English class for Arabic speakers that came out a good while before this class was developed.

There are lots of things that have been developed in non-English speaking countries that are not accessible at all to English speakers. I hope you don't think that is wrong, as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuudHier

I'm not saying it's good or wrong, I'm just saying this makes it less accessible for people whose native language isn't English.

Unfortunately there aren't a lot of good alternatives that are similar to Duolingo (gamified learning) for those other languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

I understand exactly what you are saying. You are saying it is not good that Duolingo does not accept incorrect answers as correct, saying that that makes it less accessible. But that is a bad, and incorrect, argument for accessibility and proper learning.

If the creators of Duolingo could snap their fingers and make every language in the world available instantly to speakers of every language, they would do so, I believe. But, it takes time, money, and, at this point, volunteers, who are fluent in the two target languages, who are ready, willing, and able to create new courses, plus there are some technical constraints; and no magic. So, that ain't likely to happen. There is no morale judgement on accessibility for everyone; no right, no wrong, no good, no bad, it just is what it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuudHier

No Benton, that's not what I'm saying, that's your interpretation of what I'm saying.

Also I don't agree with what you call "incorrect". Using the wrong article with an answer that's clearly correct otherwise, doesn't constitute an "incorrect answer" to me. Duolingo also has automatic detection for typos in answers, but that typo-detection is purposefully turned off for some words, like no isn't correct if you need to type não in Portuguese, so when practicing both ES and PT it's an often made mistake, still counting as incorrect if you're at an advanced level. Focusing on the stuff that's actually centric to the lesson and allowing more typo's in something as simple as an article would actually make a lot of sense. When I'm speaking Spanish with a native speaker in real life even though I make small mistakes I do constantly pick up the correct grammar and vocabulary. Despite these small mistakes I still learn more about the bigger picture and small mistakes that I make slowly fade away too.

Some people with conditions like AD(H)D (and probably other non-neurotypical traits) are also more prone to make these types of mistakes, this has been discussed on other parts of these forums. Personally I feel like this type of inclusion is important in an app like Duolingo.

As the current system already has a feature for typos it doesn't seem impossible to make some alterations to this. But tbh to me the new "mistakes" feature in the app is already great because with that I can do my lessons super fast (and error-prone) and then fix stuff later in the mistakes part of the app.

In short: for some people it would be better to be super precise about everything. For others being more lenient will work better. And yes, programming this will of course take a lot of time, but it's important to give feedback about these kinds of things. Which in my case doesn't mean I'm any less grateful for the opportunity to learn these languages through Duolingo :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FroschDerL

As I couldn't find if someone mentioned here before. So if, I am sorry for a possible duplication. My question is, why its an "arab" woman and not an "arabian" woman. Or at least why isn't it interchangeably as the word for daughter also is the same as for girl. Because sometimes alternatives are accepted. Or am I just wrong and "arabian" is completely wrong in general? Thanks for your help! Enjoy your day, Quaaak!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

Generally nowadays, "Arab" refers to people, "Arabic" refers to the language, and "Arabian" refers to locations and things. "Arabian" is an older term that was used in the past for people, as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yasira650629

I lost my heart because u missed an in the sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TinoAriza

؟؟؟ -- لَقَدْ صارَ قَلْبِيْ قابِلاً كُلَّ صُوْرَةٍ --


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TinoAriza

That is, "my heart has become capable of every form", or "my heart can take on any form: for gazelles a meadow, a cloister for monks, for the idols, sacred ground, Ka'aba for the circling pilgrim, the tables of the Torah, the scrolls of the Qur'an". -- Ibn Arabi, from "Tarjuman al-Ashwaq" #11, ca. 1210 C.E. -- translated by Michael Sells -- (this post and the previous one with the Arabic quote are in response to the puzzling/quizzical post by Yasira650629 today 27 Feb 2020 -- I'm noting that so as to preserve some context for my responses) -- add-on thought 07 Sep 2020: hah!! it finally dawned on me that Yasira was probably referring to Duo's mobile-app "hearts" stuff, which can be a nuisance when you are trying to finish a lesson --


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TinoAriza

-- resonances -- the poet, 8 centuries ago, was an Arab man, the young princess who stimulated the poem was an Arabic-speaking (probably bi-lingual) Persian, and the translator quoted here is an American man -- imagine all that !! The episode that resulted in the composition of the "Tarjuman al-Ashwaq" began in Makka al-Mukarrama (Mecca, Arabia) in 1202 C.E.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnUnicorn

I've done the same thing, diving down a deep rabbit-hole trying to provide a definitive answer--only to discover that I misunderstood the question and the real answer is simply "because X."

Still, I enjoy the journey of digression, and you opened my eyes to some beautiful poetry.

شكرا لك!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tjsanghar

Words are missing in the given collection; First "American" and the next time "Man" was missing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talib-61

Duo is not learning


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Banasdeeq

I got this question wrong just because I misplaced the an, and I do not think that is a very important mistake to reduce my hearts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emmy437795

I have allready wrote a correct answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlishaSayyed

I wrote correctely but it give me an wrong answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ABOOHAAZIM

Yes. Me too. Just because a caps lock


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beardo19

Wrote it correctly but said it was wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AprilUmer

arabic starts from the end in translation with english...this is confusing sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ian645243

I translated this correctly and it says im wrong, i dont know why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ian645243

My answer was exactly the same, letter for letter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

Ian, stop cluttering the thread by writing the same thing over and over again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ian645243

Benton.1 i did not clutter the feed with the same thing i answered your statement in the fact that my answer was exactly the same, letter for letter. Its funny how you attack me straight after not being able to help me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

You're too sensitive, Ian. I'm not attacking you, I just asked you to not write the same thing over and over again, which makes the threads too long. Four times you wrote a comment about writing the sentence correctly but being marked wrong. People on the thread could see your complaint the first time you wrote it. To be blunt about it this time, there is no way that you wrote the correct answer. The computer is programmed with the correct answer. If you had written the correct answer, it could not have marked your answer incorrect. I also told you that if you wanted someone on the thread to help you, you had to show us what you wrote. You can do that by taking a screen shot of what you wrote, or by typing what you think you wrote, and posting it to this thread. I could not help you because I don't know what you wrote, and you didn't bother to tell me. We cannot see your answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph.DK62cr

Blaa blaa .......


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

RuudHier, We obviously have a different philosophy on certain things. Though some people might not want to think so, there are some absolutes in life. Leaving an article out of this sentence does make it incorrect. That is an absolute; and if someone were sitting in a classroom language class and left the article out, the teacher would mark it as incorrect, because the teacher is trying to teach correct grammar. If, however, someone were speaking to a person in a foreign language that he don't know well, a kind person would not stop him and correct every mistake he made, because that would interfere with the flow of communication.

I'm very familiar with ADHD. Having ADHD, for instance, does not cause people to make mathematical mistakes, spell words incorrectly, or make grammatical errors, nor does it excuse them for doing so. In a school setting, students with ADHD might be given extra time to complete assignments, but if students were to answer questions incorrectly, teachers are not going to say their answers are correct.

We all have different learning abilities. People usually have strengths in some areas and weaknesses in others. The things we have difficulty with, we just have to practice harder. It is not right, fair, or good for society, the school system, or the students, if the students who have not done well are giving the same grades, or diplomas as students who have excelled.

Duolingo has "gamified" apps for language learning. Yet, some people still complain when they get an answer incorrect and have to spend a few seconds to do it over again. I have to redo sentences all the time. I just look at it as reinforcement of learning. If I write something incorrectly, and don't have to redo it, the incorrect answer is what gets practiced. Most of the "typos" I make are actually mistakes, and the typos I actually do make, Duo does not consider typos. But, I don't complain about it in the forums because I know it's impossible for the computer to really know the difference between my typos and my lack of knowledge.

Let's let this be the end of our thread. We don't want to beat a dead horse. ; )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuudHier

You see things much more black and white than I do apparently. Only seeing problems everywhere and only seeing absolutes is problematic when you want to build the best platform.

And actually there are multiple ways for a computer to discern between different types of words and knowing what the core word is that they're actually trying to teach you. Like I said (ignored by you) they are already algorithmically deciding to not accept certain typos but to accept others.

And let's not get into the philosophical argument about what is "right or fair", because a LOT can be said about things being unfair for certain parts of the population. For instance is it fair that some students can easily get an A+ on a test, and others with many many more hours of learning can barely get a D-? It's about learning a language here. It's about real life. Not about test scores. Without DL I would never have been able to learn Spanish and then go into the real world and actually practice it and vastly improve it in multiple Spanish speaking countries. The more accessible and the more inclusive DL becomes, the more people can enjoy this. It isn't about "fair" and about grades, but about inclusiveness.

Of course you don't have to agree with me or have the same philosophical (world) view, but I'll still leave my comments here in the hopes that DL folks might read it and work with it ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShakibNour

I wrote right translation but why It's showing i am wrong,,, It's also showing same answer like me which i wrote but it’s say i am wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarmaneeBi

I always incorrect this question


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/parsanaderi2021

I writed men instead man just this shit mistake?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph.xfu771

I need suggestion.coz when I write down in English answer system not except.plzz do something.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

You need to tell us what you wrote if you'd like us to tell you what went wrong. We can't see your answer.

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