https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LingualLightning

Latin made big progress in the Incubator!

At the start of this week, Latin was at 28%, and is now past the 75% mark! This may be an error in the system, but I hope that we will have the Latin course soon!

June 29, 2019

42 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JensBu

No progress in the incubator doesn't necessarily mean they didn't make progress. People also use other tools to colaborate and plan the course and then just add the content they have created elsewhere. This progress is possible.

But as far as I red here, 100% means that all created blank skills are marked as completed. If they remove blank skills the progress percentage increases although they might be far away from beta. It could be at 90% if they create 10 skills and set 9 of them to completed although their goal is to create 150 skills. Correct me if that is wrong or outdated.

June 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeoNeko77

You're right. Yiddish team said that even if it doesn't look like they're making progress, they are. I don't remember exactly but they are working on it "off-site".

June 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SpaceDoggi

The fact that we’re a year past the currently scheduled release date with no word from the team suggests abandonment rather than working offline.

July 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomasco3

Looks to be just shy of 35 percent, which is still a big jump. Hot off the presses:

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32890449

June 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeflonDuck

Love to have Latin as a Duolingo course! Thank you all who are contributing to the program.

June 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ReaganHard6

I took Latin as a required school class last year, it really helped me with Spanish this year

June 29, 2019

[deactivated user]

    I took two years of it. It does help a lot

    June 29, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melyndi

    75? are you sure. Because I just red the weekly update and it did make some progress but it was closer to 35% ish...

    June 30, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JensBu

    It's six days old. I posted the link to the incubator here.

    June 30, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melyndi

    No I'm talking about the one that was a few hours old when I posted that. It was showing progress of about 5 or 6% and was now in the 30s which is still awesome but not 75%

    June 30, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/spasqu

    Volo studere linguam latinam :)

    June 30, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

    It should actually be: volo studere linguae latinae. Studere is one of those annoying verbs that don't take an object in the accusative, but in another case (dative here).

    July 2, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/spasqu

    Gratia! Nesciebam! (Which in my extremely rusty Latin stands for: Thank you! I didn't know!)

    July 3, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LizzieMass2

    Wrong word order. Verbs in Latin are always at the end of the sentence.

    July 1, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tomista

    Not necessarily.

    July 1, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimKillock

    Verbs are typically at the end of a sentence, but they don't have to be. case inflections carry the meanings that word order does in English / most modern European languages, meaning that words can be reordered for emphasis or rhythm in poetry.

    July 1, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/spasqu

    My Latin is far from great, but I can repeat what others have answered before. There is not really a "right" or "wrong" order of words/phrases in Latin.

    Actually, all variations of positioning are possible in a simple sentence like this, with only four words (V+DO) and no preposition. :)

    As I understand it --I speak two romance languages with quite free word order, although admittedly not as free as Latin, so I might be wrong--, the fact that the verb is brought to the front just emphasises it in the sentence, which is ok, since the verb carries the subject with it. It's like stressing I WANT over the rest of the information.

    July 1, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dresdenjolly

    Yay!!!!!!!!

    July 1, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vicki966016

    yes

    June 29, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Darkseid42069

    That's pretty epic dude. When its finished I'll definitely take it

    July 2, 2019

    [deactivated user]

      Latin would be wonderful considering that half the languages are derived from it

      June 29, 2019

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JensBu

      Half the languages? Only the Romance languages.

      June 29, 2019

      [deactivated user]

        Hyperbole

        June 29, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dvx27

        Hyperbole? But that derives from Greek ;)

        June 30, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drockalgzemoser

        Since we're facetiously correcting ben here, might I add that lexical borrowing from Latin in Germanic and other languages is also a thing ;)

        July 1, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomasco3

        Here is the link that shows it reached 28 percent:

        https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32801745

        Where is the link that indicates it has reached 75 percent?

        June 29, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JensBu

        28% was posted five days ago.

        Have a look at this https://incubator.duolingo.com/courses/la/en/status

        June 29, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomasco3

        There are three phases there. To me it looks like less than 50 percent of the overall progress.

        June 29, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeoNeko77

        Until release in beta, Thomasco3

        June 30, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomasco3

        Are you going to work on the beta version?

        June 30, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtyomYabloko

        Here's what I don't understand about people wanting a Latin duolingo course - you don't speak Latin. You read Latin. Learning the language properly - to the point where you can slowly translate Virgil, Ovid or Catullus (with a dictionary!) - takes years of learning grammar and vocabulary. You are taught to memorise noun declensions, verb conjugations, different constructions and practice translation et cetera.

        The two primary reasons the language is still studied are: 1) to better appreciate classical/important Latin texts from the past (and a big part of that is parsing words and dealing with meters) and 2) so that you can learn grammar theory that you can apply to other languages (including English)! You should know what the nominative, accusative, genitive etc cases are for, you should know what a perfect past participle is, what an ablative absolute is, what verbs take the dative case, the difference between indicative and subjunctive moods, the difference between active and passive voices, what verbs are not passive but rather 'deponent' etc etc.

        Duolingo has no active grammar teaching. All grammar is learnt passively, through translation. Latin is not spoken, and the only Latin text you will see will be either aimed at schoolchildren (e.g. the Cambridge Latin Course) or Latin written by actual Romans 2000 years ago, (which you will not be able to understand at a duolingo level). It’s a dead language. You will not be able to polish up your Latin skills by living in Rome, or talking to Romans. This is why learning grammar traditionally is important for learning Latin, unlike a spoken language.

        July 1, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimKillock

        These are good questions and perfectly reasonable points. However, there is another take on this:

        (1) Plenty of Latin academics believe that producing Latin, particularly spoken but also written, helps with reading fluency by reinforcing patterns; for instance Terence Tunberg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Tunberg

        (2) Duolingo does have the notes section, which means there is a chance to understand the rules you are practicing. This isn't ideal and ought to be supplemented, but it does solve the main problem of lessons based on grammar but not providing context.

        (3) While "[y]ou will not be able to polish up your Latin skills by living in Rome, or talking to Romans" you can do something similar on the very many spoken Latin days, weekends, week and month courses.

        For example, in the US there is https://www.paideiainstitute.org

        Here's just one example, of a course in Princeton:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMfnw6oBq9w

        You'll find a lot of spoken Latin on Youtube, from people across the US and Europe.

        (4) You can even live and study exclusively through Latin: https://vivariumnovum.net/en

        July 1, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtyomYabloko

        doing a Latin duolingo course, which will take 100s of hours presumably, will not even qualify you to pass a first year latin exam. If you don't know how to parse "ambulaverunt", you will fail that exam. You will not be able to practice speaking it to other people until you get better, because it is not spoken and writing Latin prose is notoriously difficult. You will not be able to understand Latin texts, like the Aeneid or Cicero's Pro Roscio Amerino for example. If you try to translate these by yourself, and you look up words you don't understand in wiktionary, you will be given the case/tense and number etc, which you will not be able to understand, because you've had no formal grammar teaching. People need to understand this. YOU ARE KIDDING ME if you think going to one of these events and practicing with other people is a viable option. It's not. The only person I ever heard of doing this was one of my old Latin teachers who was actively trying to resurrect the language, and had to travel to the US to speak it with other people, and everyone thought he was a wackjob. Why not introduce proper lessons and actually put together a quality course that people might learn something useful from? No, too hard, can't do that on duolingo, because it would deviate from the traditional language structure.

        July 1, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alison257494

        Latin continued to be spoken by religious and academic communities for centuries after it became a dead language. When I was a child, church services were still conducted in it and we sang many hymns in Latin at my primary school. I studied Latin up to "O" level and passed the exam by learning a 1000 word vocabulary list and by recording and memorising set texts and their translations. I've always intended to relearn it and I see no reason why Duolingo should not play a part in that. And before anyone says ecclesiastical Latin is not the same as classical Latin; yes I know. But that makes it all the more interesting does it not?

        July 1, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/reverettguasch

        I'm with you on this. I also have an O Level in Latin and still sing hymns in Latin and attend mass in Latin from time to time. I'm interested in the whole range of Latin forms, from Classical (which I studied), through Medieval (for my history interests) to my love of church Latin. Can't wait!

        July 1, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtyomYabloko

        Yes you're right, it was the language of Europe, the church and academia for hundreds of years after the Empire collapsed, up until the 19th century probably. But that only adds another layer of complexity to the course: will it be classical Latin, or vulgar Latin, or Medieval Latin?? They are all different! I guess probably classical Latin. And if the course includes a speaking component (which will be really, really unusual for Latin study), what pronounciation will they use? The modern "classical" pronounciation that was only adopted a couple of decades ago, where the v's are pronounced as 'w's and the 'c's are hard. Or the Italian pronounciation, used in the Vatican (you may have heard this pronounciation if you played Assassin's Creed 2, 'requiescat in pace' lol). In fact every country had it's own pronounciation until recently.

        July 2, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimKillock

        The pronunciation question will be a difficult choice. Whatever they do, it will annoy some people. Classical seems the more likely choice, as it is probably used in more English-speaking classrooms. Most Latin educational materials in English attempt classical, or in the USA a 'simplified' classical pronunciation.

        Using the simplified US pronunciation would definitely be a no-no for me. ("Sal-way, a-mee-cay" etc).

        Hopefully the vowels can be done in a Mediterranean manner also, and not like an English public school boy, for instance.

        July 2, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimKillock

        As it goes I've been doing Latin in my spare time for the last year. The problem I am having is solidifying some of the grammar patterns so that I can easily distinguish some of them.

        When I learnt Welsh, some twenty years ago, I became able to express myself pretty fluently to the point of doing media interviews and engaging in political debates, although I also did know I was at a relative disadvantage to speaking in my first language, English. Welsh grammar is not as distant from English as Latin, but fluency for me came from a lot of speaking and reading. Both of these helped cement grammar understanding through doing it.

        I've missed that with Latin. For that reason I am going on a course in the Netherlands in a few weeks. (I did want to go to the course in Madrid or one of the many in Rome but the timing didn't work out for Rome, and Madrid got booked up too quickly.)

        https://www.addisco.nl/zomerschool-latijn.htm

        https://collegiumlatinitatis.com/caelum-v/

        https://www.polisjerusalem.org/rome-latin

        You'll see that the Living Latin approach is quite a growing one. Each of those courses above is run by academics who seem to think it really works. I will report back to let you know if it is in fact a viable option, or whether it was only for wackjobs.

        Duolingo might be helpful with this as it encourages you to try things and reproduce by writing / recall meaning. I don't think it's the only tool but it could be a good fit with the renewed interest in Latin as a spoken language.

        You are absolutely right that Latin is going to be more or less impossible without grammar help and learning. And also that the end goal is reading ability. However as language is naturally a spoken thing it ought to be reasonably evident that speaking practice might well help with speed and fluency in reading comprehension.

        July 1, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bicolingo

        "...you don't speak Latin. You read Latin."

        Currently, yes. But if Latin is ever to be revived as a living/spoken language, what better way to bring it to life than with a fun course like Duolingo?

        I'm looking forward to it. It'll be interesting to find out from first-hand experience whether a complex grammar can be learned implicitly. I once would have thought it impossible, but I was surprised by how much Russian grammar I picked up implicitly from a Pimsleur course (which has no explicit grammar teaching at all).

        July 1, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimKillock

        I agree on both points - I would add that Latin is already being spoken by many very fluent Latinists in both Europe and the USA. The core of these seem to come from https://vivariumnovum.net/en where Latin is the sole means of daily communication among the students.

        July 2, 2019

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ampharos64

        Latin is in fact still spoken - there are even podcasts in it! The idea you can only learn Latin through pouring over grammar is rather dated, to a specific point in time, and does not truly reflect historical methods of teaching - which actually used more passive learning through translation, just like Duolingo.

        As far as results go, it depends on time put in, I was in fact expected to be able to read it in months at university. It does not need to take years.

        Of course you might not be able to effortlessly read Cicero right after Duo without using a dictionary, but that's true of all the languages, Duo gives you a start. A pretty good one, too. No, I could not read Rousseau the instant I finished Duo French, but I can now, four months on. Understanding of grammar has only a limited impact on ability to read, too.

        July 2, 2019
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