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  5. "nom bIjatlh. qayajbe'."

"nom bIjatlh. qayajbe'."

Translation:You speak quickly. I do not understand you.

July 5, 2019

20 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qoraq

I wonder if you can combine two adverbials to say You speak too quickly.: tlhoy nom bIjatlh.

(Or nom tlhoy.... Ich recently read a discussion here about the order of two adverbials. It didn't really lead to a hard rule.)

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

You can. Or at least, Okrand has done it. This line is from paq'batlh: chaq batlh bIvangqa'laH You might have a chance to make amends (literally, Maybe you can act with honor again).

There is no hard rule about ordering such things. Just put them in whatever order you think makes sense.

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

I appreciate Qoraq's raising this question as well as your response. Thank you also for citing your source, DavidTrimb3.

'Iwlij jachjaj!

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

Could we allow [swiftly] to be a permissible translation for the Klingon word [nom]? It often shows up within the first five suggestions as a synonym for quickly: "quick·ly /ˈkwiklē/ adverb | at a fast speed; rapidly. | "Reg's illness progressed frighteningly quickly" | synonyms: fast, swiftly, rapidly, speedily, at high speed, with all speed, at (full) speed..."

July 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

I just realized that before posting that request, I should have checked to see if there was a separate Klingon word specifically for [swiftly] in the "tlhingan Hol boQwI" (databse version 2019.06.14a). But I lucked out - there isn't one. :)

July 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

There's no reason you could't translate nom with swiftly. I'm sure the course creators simply didn't think of that synonym.

July 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

Thanks for the input! reH tlhinganpu' teHjaj!

July 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qoraq

Two small corrections, if I may:

reH tlhInganpu' taHjaj: capital I in tlhIngan.

And it should be taH, not teH. At least I assume you want them to go on and not to be true. ;-)

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

The original reason for the capital I is very similar to the reason for the capital H, D, and S. Though English happily uses the short ɪ sound that Klingon shares, many languages lack it. For anyone familiar with the common five-vowel system used in Spanish, Japanese, Kenyan, and other languages, they might expect Klingon to have those same pronunciations for a, e, i, o, and u. And a, e, o, and u, do, indeed, follow that pattern. But the i in those five-vowel systems uses an ee sound that is different from the ɪ sound in Klingon (but is approximated with Klingon Iy). So Dr. Okrand capitalized the I to remind us that this letter is not pronounced as it is in many Federation languages.

It may be coincidence, or perhaps intentional on Dr. Okrand's part, that the capital I symbol he chose is the closest a standard keyboard can get to the small capital ɪ the international phonetic alphabet uses to represent the sound made by the Klingon I.

Dr. Okrand has said that if he realized that the language would become what it is today, he might have made different decisions. He has not said whether this would include doing something different with the I. In any case, since all of Dr. Okrand's works and the vast majority of fan works in Klingon use the capital I, readers of the language become very used to seeing the capital I in Klingon and so it can be somewhat jarring to have to read letters that are in the wrong case. iT's noT iMposSiBle tO reAd, bUt It iS A lItTlE diStRactInG.

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

Absolutely! Please don't hesitate to correct me if ever you notice my errors. You are absolutely right, I did mean to suggest continuation and not veracity. With regard to the capitalization of the "i" - I realize I might ruffle a few feathers here, but since it does not help to disambiguate anything (contrast Turkish where the dotted and undotted versions of the letter "i" actually represent two different sounds), and it actually makes written Klingon harder to read (in many fonts a capital "i" is completely indistinguishable from "l"), I've dismissed this form-with-no-function convention as mere pedantry. The capitals "H", "D", and "S" at least serve to remind us that these letters are not pronounced as they are in Federation Standard. I am however open to being convinced otherwise by a rational argument; or perhaps even more importantly, if someone could explain to me why a Klingon would care in the slightest about which form of letter some Terran uses to Romanize one of their vowels! ;)

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

I agree completely with your reasoning about capitalizing. I also know it'll do more than ruffle feathers: established Klingonists won't accept it. To many of them, this issue is the stuff of holy wars. Others have tried to convince people to normalize spelling. None have succeeded.

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

DavidTrimb3, Thanks for the heads up. Perhaps they insist on the bigger letter because they are "compensating" for something? :D Looks like I'll be doing a lot of challenging! But then, niteb SuvniS Devwi'. Qalpa'!

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

jdmcowan, I appreciate your short/long "i" vowel sound argument in support of the use of capital "I." Thank you for that!

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qoraq

Thank you all for this enlightening discussion! I won't comment on tulpas93's last Klingon sentence for there are enough holy wars already going on...

Jeremy said something that I already suspected but did not know for sure (Hol tej jIHbe' 'ach DoyIchlanDaq mI'QeD, tamler QeD je ghojmoHwI' jIH.): The German i is closer to the Klingon yI; I even think the Klingon I is relatively close to some uses of the German e.

So, for me it makes sense to highlight those letters which have (for many) an unusual pronunciation.

Anyway, I simply accepted Marc Okrand's definition of the letters. He is the inventor, so I use them the way he wanted them to be used.

July 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qoraq

After all the discussion about letters here, I have another related question for which to ask I never found a place. Maybe it's here. The topic is the pronunciation of the letter o. Marc Okrand says in his dictionary that is sounds like in mosaic. The same word exists in German (Mosaik), but is pronounced differently. Both have in common that it is a closed o - so I have learned. But in English an o-sound often ends on what sounds to my ears like a u: o-u. We Germans don't do that, so it is perhaps more like oh.

In the past, I have heard Klingon spoken only by Germans or by actors of a Star Trek series. I've written off the differences to the fact that the actors simply didn't speak proper Klingon - and most of the time they don't! In Discovery most of the -moHs sound like -moh with a long o.

The question is now: Is it proper Klingon to pronounce the o like an English speaker would, or not?

July 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

Yes, Klingon o is a diphthong that sounds like o turning into w. TKD says that there is never a combination ow because ow would sound identical to o.

July 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qoraq

That is of great help! I seem to have overlooked that bit of information.

July 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

Qoraq: Thank you for calling attention to this pronunciation detail. I appreciate your perspective as a native speaker of German. I've learned that German speakers are far more consistent in their pronunciation from the part of your question "...like and English speaker..." From my experience in interacting with speakers of British English and having lived in many regions of the US, I've learned that there are few things all English speakers say the same way! While in the Southeast of the US I often have trouble discerning between the words "pin", "pen", and "pan" as they sound so similar to me when pronounced by many speakers of that region. Also of note, in some dialects of English it is common to hear "th" pronounced as "f", as if "Happy Birthday" and "Come with me" were spelled "Happy Birfday" and "Come wif me!" DavidTrimb3: I'd never noticed the lack of "ow" and now it makes complete sense! Humorously, yet perhaps culturally appropriate: I can't imagine a Klingon warrior saying "ow!" ;)

July 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

In Klingon orthography, English ow (rhymes with cow) would be spelled 'aw. The Klingon word 'aw' means sting.

July 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tulpas93

Mr Okrand is hilarious. I love all of the hidden gems in Klingon that are plays on English words! Cat = vighro (Figaro), Barrel=qegh (Keg), Ancient = tiQ (Antique), Throw = chuH (Chuck), etc. etc...

July 15, 2019
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