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"La boutique va vendre les chapeaux."

Translation:The shop is going to sell the hats.

April 16, 2013

55 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rachel66E

I am still a little confused on when to use 'les' = the plural or 'les' = them. Here I used 'the' and it was correct but them would also have made sense in English so would that also have been correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

la boutique va vendre les chapeaux => la boutique va les vendre

the boutique is going to sell the hats => the boutique is going to sell them


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rachel66E

Sitesurf, I was thinking more of selling hats ' to them'. The boutique is going to sell 'them' hats. As in the people who come to buy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Ok, in that case, you would need to tanslate "them" by "leur" as the indirect object form of "ils/elles":

la boutique va leur vendre les chapeaux = the boutique is going to sell them the hats (or... the hats to them).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rachel66E

Thanks again. I know deep down I still struggle with all these different forms of pronouns. I suppose with time and practice it will eventually sink in.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pudgiebudgie

Could you not also say "la boutique va vendre les chapeaux d'eux"? Or is that wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/codeandcoffeh

That wouldn't mean: "The shop is going to sell the hats to them." It would mean: "The shop is going to sell the hats of them." Or, more correctly: "The shop is going to sell their hats.", though you wouldn't say "les chapeaux d'eux" if you meant that, you would say "leurs chapeaux."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nihilo

how do you know from the listening that the solution is "les chapeux" and not "le chapeau"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

the vowel sound in "le" is the same as in the English "THE". But "les" sounds LEH


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/edumelo

I still can't get the difference between the sounds of "le chapeau" and "les chapeaux" =(

Does someone have some other tips?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaM

There is no difference in the sound of "chapeau" and "chapeaux". The only difference is between the articles, "le" and "les", as Sitesurf explained. You do learn to listen for these differences, which seem minute at first to an ear not accustomed to them. If you speak the two words, "le" and "les", you should notice a distinct difference in the position of your lips: somewhat pursed, as if to make an "oo" sound for "le", and more open and wider for "les".

We have homophones in English, too (there, they're, their; your, you're) and we distinguish between them in speech through the context. That's what we're doing here. Hope that helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/edumelo

Thank you DianaM, your message was very useful. But in this case don't you think that Duolingo should accept the sentence "La boutique va vendre le chapeau" as a correct sentence in this sound exercise?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaM

Our RoboGirl doesn't always have the best, or most clearly audible, pronunciation. If you go to Google Translate and put the French word you wish to hear in one of the boxes, you can then hit the Listen icon (lower right corner) and it will speak the word clearly. If you listen to both "le" and "les" a few times, your ear should begin to discern the difference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

No, because the voice said "les" LEH and not "le" LEUH, which makes the word "chapeaux" plural, with an X at the end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/edumelo

Ok, thank you Sitesurf and DianaM, I'll pain atention to the sounds and try to get the difference between the sounds.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/edumelo

Nice, I am going to do this! Thank you =)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madhav_Malhotra

Les has the same sound as they. Le has the same sound as the.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ssevi

I wrote ...sell them hats, without "the", and it was accepted. If something is countable, like a hat, both des and les could be translated into nothing in certain cases? As I remember, des in case of partitive, and les in case of generality, is it right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ssevi

Not long before thete was a sentence with lemons, where I also omitted "the" as a case of generality, and that was not right, just in case of partitive could have it been omitted. So I am a bit confused about des, les and the lack of "the".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"des" is not partitive (which is only for singular), but the plural form of "un" or "une".

In English "a/an" does not have a plural form, the article is just dropped:

  • un chapeau, des chapeaux = a/one hat, hats.

But le/the, as definite articles, point to something specific (definite)

  • le chapeau, les chapeaux = the hat, the hats.

If you are given an English sentence where the noun comes with "the", you can be 99.9% sure that the French translation will have "le, la, les"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krashman

OK. But when the french sentence has a "les", can't that mean either "the specific ones clear via context" (which we can't possibly know for these exercises) or "all such things"? For instance, the sentence "Les femmes mangent" could mean "Women eat" or "The women eat" depending on context, no?

In this case, I would think that the store would sell hats (in general), rather than "the" hats (unless context indicates which hats are being sold, such as at a consignment shop). Am I totally off base here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Not off base, but you probably forgot to take into account which language was to be translated to which:

the hats = les chapeaux

les chapeaux = the hats or hats - depending on meaning and construction

des chapeaux = (some) hats - plural of un chapeau = a/one hat

the women = les femmes

les femmes = the women or women - depending on meaning and construction

des femmes = (some) women - plural of une femme = a/one woman


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaM

@GoGoCommerce - "La boutique va vendre des chapeaux."

People are often confused about when "le/la/les" introduces a generality and when not. It actually took me some time to realize that it depends on the verb in the sentence.

Je vends les chapeaux. = I sell the hats.
Je vends des chapeaux. = I sell hats.
BUT
J'aime les chapeaux. = I like the hats (the ones we've been discussing) OR I like hats (in general).

Verbs like aimer, adorer, haïr, and préférer are called "verbs of appreciation" and they are the ones that have this effect on "le/la/les".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krashman

I honestly don't mean to condescend, because you're obviously MUCH, MUCH more experienced at DL than I, so I'm probably missing something important here, but: You know that the same comment section appears whether you're asked to translate F->E or E->F, right?

I and the original poster got the French and were told to translate to English. In that case I saw "les chapeaux" and didn't understand why it translated to the English "the hats." Idiomatically, I would assume that it meant that the store sold hats in general, not some specific hats. I could be and probably am totally wrong! I don't know French! What I was hoping for was an explanation of why in this context "the hats" was considered right and "hats" was considered wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

No problem, I can explain that.

  • a man sells a hat = un homme vend un chapeau: an undefined man, an undefined hat = indefinite article un/a or one.

  • the man sells the hat = l'homme vend le chapeau: a specific man, a specific hat = definite articles.

  • a man sells hats = un homme vend des chapeaux: an undefined man, more than one hat = indefinite article for the man and "des" as the plural of "un" for hats (there is no plural for a/an/one in English).

  • the man sells the hat(s) = l'homme vend les chapeaux = specific man, specific hat(s)

  • men sell hats = des hommes vendent des chapeaux = several men, several hats

In addition:

What English speakers generally define as 'in general' is less precise than what the French call 'generalities' (constructed with le/la/les, always) :

  • in general, men are stronger than women (universal truth) = en général, les hommes sont plus forts que les femmes.

  • j'aime le fromage, je déteste les légumes, je préfère le chocolat (appreciation verbs naturally introduce generalities) = I like cheese, I hate vegetables, I prefer chocolate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrKnightley

Ok, so to clarify... can this be translated as "The boutique is going to sell hats." and if not, then what would be that construction in French?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraemeSarg

But what both Sitesurf and Duo seem to overlook is that a hat shop sells hats: conceptual, hypothetical, imaginary hats (les chapeaux). But of course, if it expects to make a profit, it needs to also sell real hats (des chapeaux). But it is true to say, even before it opens its doors for business and sells its first hat, that the hat shop sells hats.

If a hat shop is going to sell hats, then it can only be selling hats (les chapeaux), because it has not yet sold any hats (des chapeaux)!

My French is probably flawed but: "La boutique va vendre les chapeaux, parce qu'elle n'a pas encore vendu de chapeaux."

But the point is that the boutique is going to sell hats, NOT the hats.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaM

@GraemeSarg - I believe barbers recommend a good conditioner for excessive hair splitting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

@GraemeSarg. I happen to be the one who wrote this sentence, which is unequivocally about specific hats. By no means can this sentence be about anything else than "the hats", for all the reasons already explained at length on this thread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackMcCoyDA

What do you do when the audio doesn't play? I'm missing hearts for no reason.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alphabeta

I usually hit 'slower' and it plays, and then the fast audio kicks in too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Persikov

If you have a torrent running or other high-bandwidth process, you need to cut that. it's happened to me recently. C'est ennuyeux.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaldwinII

The boutique is going to sell hats. Marked wrong. Please duo, things like this drive people nuts!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"The boutique is going to sell the hats" is accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Yanshi_

What does this sentence mean?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaM

It seems clear to me. What don't you understand?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Yanshi_

sorry, now I understand


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArkanGaulson

"The boutique goes to sell the hats" Was marked wrong, is it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InvertedGo

What your sentence means is that a store goes off somewhere and starts selling hats to people. Outside of fairy tales, this seems very unlikely.

"Is going to" is a future tense in English that equates to the future proche in French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shazzamatazz

I got French audio and was asked to write it in French. The "va" sounds like "veut" to me, but in turtle-speed it sounds like "va". Is there an audio error or am I hearing it incorrectly?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/n6zs
  • 2309

Hey, Shazz! I have run across audio that definitely sounds different on regular and slow speed. To me (native English speaker) this regular speed audio is clearly "va". Duo is not perfect but it will force you to listen very closely. Believe it or not, there are many times when a close listen will even allow you to distinguish clearly between those pesky "il" vs "ils" conjugations. Hang in there!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pandarowe12

"goes to" is the same as "is going to" so why not allow it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"be going to" is continuous and the required form to express a near future.

"goes to" expresses a movement.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PauHage

I chose store not boutique and it was incorrect. Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

A store is much bigger than a shop or boutique. Hats are usually sold in shops or boutiques, rather than stores.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoryBarnes3

Can this not be the boutique is going to sell hats too?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anne720

I cannot go forward with this question, because the answer given is 'store' not 'boutique'. The word 'store' does not appear in the options to click. In any case, 'boutique' is commonly used in UK English whereas 'store' would not be used in the context of this kind of shop.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"Shop" and "boutique" are accepted in translation, as well as "store", even if I agree with you about the latter being suboptimal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gerritjans5

I was not given the word STRORE as an option!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Anyway, "shop" or "boutique" are far better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UnaDonna213779

Why is boutique not accepted as a translation of 'boutique'??? Acceptable in earlier module, but not this one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BruceSmith51040

Going from French to English, "vendre les chapeaux." This means to sell hats in general, not just the particular stock it currently holds. So why is the "the" required in the response "to sell the hats."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

In this sentence, "vendre les chapeaux" is not a generalization and "les chapeaux" are specific (mentioned before or in sight). So you need "the hats" in the translation.

You would find "les chapeaux" as "hats in general, all hats, the whole category" in such sentences as:

  • J'aime les chapeaux = I like hats
  • Les chapeaux sont sujets aux caprices de la mode = Hats are subject to the whims of fashion.
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