https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DreamingOdelia

Who else adores the new French tree?

I just scrolled through the new French tree and was AMAZED at how much work the French team must have put into this tree!

I love the repetition of skills. This repetition is of course time consuming, but I think I will have better French skills than I had after going through the tree the first time. There are 156 skills!

I also love the new bonus point system. I find myself double checking answers because I don't want to lose 2 of the 5 points because I forgot and 's' or an 'e'.

Lastly I enjoy the emphasis on pronunciation. Even if French is not your target language, I recommend that you try the new French tree just to understand how different the French language pronounces certain groups of letters than the English Language. This is a real hoot.

How do you feel about our new French tree? I'd love to read your opinions.

July 9, 2019

26 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emir1989np

J'adore le nouvel français arbre :)

July 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gxxsh

'arbre français', non ?

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DreamingOdelia

oui gxxsh :-)

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jenny759980

Je l'aime beaucoup!

July 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DreamingOdelia

Wow! You know how to do the pronouns! (Is that the figure of speech that the l' represents?) Jenny, what skill are you presently working on? :-)

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bicolingo

I love it too. I find it so much better than the old tree, both in terms of motivation and results. It embeds the basic skills very well, and builds on those skills very methodically. I love it. (Looking forward to the new Italian version when it eventually comes out).

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@bicolingo

Quote: I find it so much better than the old tree

Were you on the tree2 (stable, 78 skills) or on the A/B tree3 from contributors with 96 skills?

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bicolingo

I'm not sure. I only subscribed to the French course in about February or March this year, if that helps to narrow it down. There are still 56 units of the old course tacked on to the end of the new material in the current tree. They range from "Vocab 1" through to "Spiritual".

EDIT: Having read your other comments in this thread, I'd like to add: I was not dissatisfied with the previous tree at all, and have no criticisms of any previous work. I thought the content and grammar notes were fine.

The main reason I like the new tree more is because of its overall structure. I like how the course is built around themes of conversation rather than grammatical features of the language (even though I am a grammar guy). I'm finding it more motivating and I find that I'm retaining the content more effectively as a result. I also like the new pronunciation tips, helping to distinguish between the various é, è, et, er, ez, ai sounds, and also the -on / -an / -en / -in / -un sounds.

I use the web interface, and there is still plenty of writing / sentence composition required, especially from level 4 upwards, which I like.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@bicolingo

I'm not sure. I only subscribed to the French course in about February or March this year, if that helps to narrow it down.

AFAIK contributor tree3 (A/B) roll outs where stopped.
This course (great tree design, grammar centric focus like EN->Italian) - with 96 skills - was available in 2018 to some new users (like me).

So either you probably got in 2019 the new tree12 (CEFR A2) or you already had been on the contractor tree8 (CEFR A1).

When you signed up for French in 2019 you probably either got the old stable tree2 (78 skills) or the newer tree8 if it was not the very latest version for you.

Someone wrote to me that finally the school classrooms got converted from tree2 (stable) to tree12 too, which might explain that you finally have been updated.

July 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thekatmorgan

I honestly hated the old French tree and gave up on it because it was such a mess. But the new one is really really well done. Have to say I’m impressed at how logically it has been laid out and how the grammar now makes much more sense (I’m about 30% through the tree) I’ve certainly learnt a hell of a lot more this time around and don’t feel like I will give up!

Looking forward to the Italian one being given the same treatment because it’s still all over the place..

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@thekatmorgan

Quote: I honestly hated the old French tree and gave up on it because it was such a mess.

Which one?

Were you on the tree2 (stable, 78 skills) or on the A/B tree3 from contributors with 96 skills?

The newer A/B contributor tree was rolled out for a selected userbase.

If you had it: What specifically was "such a mess" with it?

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DreamingOdelia

D'accord! :-) thekatmorgan is a very interesting name. Might I assume that you feel like you are a cat?

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmidwife

Was the tree automatically updated? What if you started before the update? What happens to your skills? Sorry confused.

July 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneBaker13

My tree has 122 skills not 156????!!!!! What is going on??

July 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@JaneBaker13

https://www.duome.eu/JaneBaker13
https://www.duome.eu/JaneBaker13/progress

You are on the latest tree12 with 156 skills.

Everyone should have this CEFR tree as someone told me that they have rolled it out even on classrooms.
This means this is the new stable tree and replaced contractor tree8.

July 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneBaker13

Hmm, okay. When I scroll to the bottom I see “Test out of 122 Skills”

July 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@JaneBaker13

Well, those are the remaining skills in your tree.
Right now I am not sure if there is a last checkpoint at the end which you can take without any skills coming after it, which might explain the different numbers.

  • Lessons: 222/741+3/6

You completed ~222 lessons (maybe Duome is counting the 2 x 5 unlocked lessons in the 2 skills or not)

  • Skills: 47/156+2

You completed 46 skills + you have 2 more freshly unlocked with each 5 lessons remaining.

There seems to be some imbalance with the math (test of of 122 skills vs 156 - 46 = 110) but I have no real idea where it comes from, sorry.

July 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneBaker13

You are very correct Thomas, I finished another skill and now it says "Test out of 111" . Thanks for the explanation. FYI jmidwife is me too, an old account started in 2014, it has been updated to the new tree. I am actually going to delete this one now.

July 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@jmidwife

Yes, there are "tree updates" on old accounts when A/B test phases are finished.

Normally new A/B trees are available only on new users / users who have never added e.g a French language course to their course list.

What if you started before the update?

Either you stayed for a while on your old tree version and when the "tree update" was rolled out incrementally or in batches you got it with a bunch of other users.

What happens to your skills?

They get converted (or reset).

With "tree updates" you can actually lose crowns!

As the new CEFR Spanish and French trees are quite incompatible with their former tree designs, many added/converted (content moved) skills got reset to the L0 crown level.

This is especially true for French tree 2 or 3 (grammar centric design) -> tree 8 or tree 2/3 -> tree12 conversions (theme-oriented skills, grammar mixed in, 26+ dedicated grammar skills eliminated).

Check these threads if you want to here more and find other linked threads:

July 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randall654620

I like it. I was to the point of abandoning the old tree due to lack of notes. The new tree has much better notes.

It also changed my approach to using the app. Previously, I had the top of my tree at level 5, then one row of level 4, one row at 3, etc. This meant I was only working on 8-12 skills at a time. When they switched me, I had whole sections of skills active, so I started doing one section at a time progressing all 20 or so skill from 0-5 in lockstep. I find I greatly prefer this method.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@Randall

Quote: I like it. I was to the point of abandoning the old tree due to lack of notes

Are you a mobile app user?
Looks like you have missed the most/the best what was available last year and before.

What tree were you on?
Tree2 (stable, 78 skills) or Tree3 (A/B, 96 skills)?
Both had the html formatted "tips and notes" (T&N) on the www.duolingo.com web portal!!
I was on the contributor tree3 last year and could take a look.

Quote: the new tree has much better notes.

Wow, what a generic statement.
I would say 50-70% is probably wrongly expressed here?!?

How come this, as you put it, can live here on the forums without the French moderators and contributors coming and cutting your head off?

I was told that contractors have added "mobile grammar skills" on the mobile app for their new CEFR A1 (Tree8) + A2 (Tree12) skills.

MANY people suddenly seem to miss a lot of T&N which were previously available - this applies to the old (or restructured) skills.

You cannot access the (new) tips for the old (or restructured, or deleted) skills on the mobile app.

The only way to currently access T&N for old (not new CEFR A1-A2) skills is to use the updated moderator/contributor notes, which are available on the French discussion language forum or here: http://www.duome.eu/tips/en/zz

Please do your homework:
Compare those really great updated T&N notes with a clear focus on grammar with those limited staff/contractor French "mobile grammar notes" (=tips) for the newer CEFR skills.

A French moderator had already confirmed the above to me last year about "only tips available for new CEFR skills" in the other 2-3 French threads.

Generic (and surely quite wrong!) statements as you put it here publicly, can really hurt feelings, especially when there is a limited group of willing French moderators and contributors who work their a.. off to give YOU concrete "grammar notes" (on the web)...

...but you guys are just interested in using their cr.p.y mobile app in "tapping and multiple-choice mode" and too lazy to check what the www.duolingo.com web portal might also could have provided to you.

I hope we do not have to discuss the basics here that some months ago you could actually use their web portal in typing mode (higher ratio!) to learn to construct your own sentences and learn from your own (typing) errors.

In the meantime some app features got ported over to the web portal and many challenges now give us - instead of typing - only picture-/and multiple-choice (M-C) exercises: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31856908

Now even their web portal almost feelings like turning OFF our brains and being restricted to M-C type questions.

I always hated multiple-choice questions on the Memrise web portal and I have completely turned them off for classic reviews with the help of Tampermonkey and Cooljingle's "all typing" userscript to be able to correctly do RECALL testing!

Q: How much did you learn in French only with tapping (on the mobile app)?

Had I been mainly using the "mobile apps" over the past 2,5 years (I did not, instead of I use Memrise for true L1->L2 recall typing tests) honestly think I would be NOWHERE in Portuguese...

The recent web code updates have basically ruined by two reverse trees and typing experience!

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randall654620

Wow. Sorry for any offense given.

I am, however, not at all sorry for my opinion. If I am in my tree and I click on a skill, and there is no button for notes, then the tree does not have notes. If I am in my tree and I click on the notes button and the notes are poor, then the tree's notes are poor. The existence of better notes elsewhere that one might find if one knew to look doesn't change that.

The question asked for my opinion. I gave my opinion. Thank you for letting me know my opinion was wrong.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DreamingOdelia

Bonjour Randall, Merci de nous donner votre avis :-) I agree with the experience with the old tree, whichever one that you had. The first group of skills were a solid five FOREVER! I am now enjoying my leisurely pace down our new tree.

I love your polite and chill attitude ;)

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Roody-Roo

This is a bit harsh, but I guess you have a lot of axes to grind. I do a lot of typing on my phone, but I'm not sure it helps me learn French. At any rate, I'm happy with my learning. All the levels give me lots of spaced practice on this new tree. Sorry you're so unhappy.

July 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

Quote: There are 122 skills!

The latest staff/contributor tree12 actually has 156 skills and 741 lessons, not 122 skills!

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DreamingOdelia

I will make the correction.

July 10, 2019
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