"I like running and eating also."
Translation:أُحِبّ اَلْجَري وَالْأَكْل أَيْضاً.
In formal Arabic sun letters are those representing sounds that were traditionally produced in the same place of the mouth as ل i.e. with the tip of the tongue. This does not include ج.
However, assimilation of ج is common in colloquial Arabic today as most pronounce it like j in jump or su in measure (rather than g as in Egypt, for example).
Thanks for your excellent reply. Yes, I'd looked up sun and moon letters in Wikipedia, and thus learned the word "coronal". I can see that if ج is pronounced like J in jump (isn't G as in Egypt the same sound?) it would want to be assimilated, . But I'm puzzled why it should want to assimilate if it's pronounced like S in measure. When I say it - ʒ, the tip of my tongue is not involved. Perhaps I've got a weird physiology. And I have the same problem with ش . I find the action is made by the middle of the tongue against the palate. And I've just found an IPA chart which lists both ʒ and ʃ as velar fricatives. So it puzzles me why Arabic considers them to be coronal. Can you see why?
When I said as in Egypt, I meant the place, not the word, my bad haha.
So just be to clear, by /g/ I'm referring to the sound in go, produced in the same place of the mouth as /k/ (as in kit).
Anyway, to answer your question, ʃ and ʒ are produced in roughly the same place as l. "Roughly" because ʒ (as well as ʃ) is produced with the blade of the tongue (this is ever so slightly behind the tip) and the middle of the tongue is raised towards the velum. To contrast, most native speakers of English produce l with the tip of their tongue and the tongue is not raised elsewhere.
However, ʒ is still very much coronal (not velar) because the (at least primary) place where air is obstructed occurs between the front part of your tongue and, in this case, the alveolar ridge.
I hope that isn't too long-winded. And note assimilation will occur naturally as it is something we all do to aid speech. This is why (when speaking fast) you probably say something like hambag rather than handbag.
No! The bad is mine. If something is in the least ambiguous, something perverse in me makes me choose the wrong meaning. Apologies. No, not too long-winded at all. Re assimilation, yes it occurs naturally, but different languages do it differently, innit. Eg, in English we tend to turn /n/ into /ŋ/ before a velar consonant, but I happen to know that Russian doesn’t. And so on. And course I say hambag with the best of them, but I don’t think we tend to assimilate /l/ to a following coronal consonant, do we? I’ve tried saying eg “altogether”, “all sins”, but I don’t think the /l/ assimilates, any more (or less) than it does before a non-coronal consonant, as in “all people”. I think the dark /l/ is just a bit of an indistinct sound, no? You say “like j in jump or su in measure”. But those two are different, aren’t they? In “jump” it’s an affricate, and in measure it’s a fricative… oh, have I misunderstood again?! It now occurs to me that your “or” was exclusive, so you meant the two pronunciations exist? Sorry. OK. And I’ve just looked up ج in classical Arabic, and find it was pronounced as a hard G. So no wonder - if it’s now d͡ʒ or ʒ - that it’s treated as a coronal. One problem remains for me. All the sun letters involve the tip of the tongue, except for ش, which involves the blade. That puzzles me, as the tongue movement between /l/ and ش is bigger than for all the others. Perhaps ش was pronounced differently in classical Arabic? Same puzzle for modern-day Arabs treating ج , if it’s pronounced ʒ, as a sun letter, though if it’s pronounced as d͡ʒ I think that’s more comprehensible. What a mysterious place the world is, for me. I wonder if you have time to read all this.
There's no need to apologise :)
I can only assume /l/ is assimilated in Arabic because, as you say, the sound is softer, and little clarity is lost because the following sound is doubled (something that doesn't exist in English, at least not phonemically).
Hypothetically you could producing all the so-called sun letters with either the tip or the blade of your tongue, and they will all be relatively similar. However, it is likely that you produce /l/ closer to your teeth relative to most native speakers of Arabic, exaggerating the difference. Either way, ش is still coronal and should assimilate.
Do you have something else that I can contact you on to discuss about Arabic and/or languages?