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  5. "هٰذا الْحائِط جَديد."

"هٰذا الْحائِط جَديد."

Translation:This wall is new.

July 15, 2019

50 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/7awliet

What is ئ? The first time it's used and without explanation. Also, how is it different from ءِ or إ or أِ? All four are pronounced the same? Some things in Arabic are >unnecessarily< complicated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

well it is "i" indeed. However notice that أِ is not quite a regular form (looks weird).
Anyway, the drawing of Hamza is actually orthographic. Meaning, the sound is still glottal stop (either I A or U) but drawing it goes under some specific rules (no change in sound). I think such rules were made to help readers read Arabic without much need for diacritics (or harakat).
I won't go into details here, but in the example above, the word حائط has a glottal stop in the middle (Há'iT). So, to draw this Hamza, we have to check the vowel on the last letter before the hamza. Here, we don't have a consonant but we have a long vowel (á) so it is not helping us here. Thus, we go back to hamza and see what is the short vowel of the hamza itself. It is "i" sound, thus we decided to draw it on ى to note that this hamza actually has "i" sound (not A, not U).
Just another example, hopefully that would help:
The male's name Fu'ád (another way to write this is: Fu2ád, using 2 for hamza). Here we look at the consonant before hamza, and it is (F). This (F) has -u vowel. This guides us that the hamza after that should be drawn on U. Hence, the name is written in Arabic as فؤاد


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jss.___

Excuse me, TJ Q8. Why is the d not pronounced, because of the hamza?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

The "D"?
if you are talking about ئـ then you got mixed up I guess. This is a Hamza (to be precise, Hamza on Sinna) which is a glottal stop, and spelled as (-i-). It's totally different from د
Here are they in bigger font:

ئـ

د


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jss.___

Thank you, TJ Q8. Now I see the difference. One lingot for you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

OK, it's different from د (I don't know about "totally different"!), but why do people refer to it as ى ? It looks nothing like ى to me. I think ئـ resembles the "totally different" د much more.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/not_a_thing

I think it's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yodh#Alif_maq%E1%B9%A3%C5%ABrah

Seems like one way it's different from dhal (د) is that dhal doesn't join/connect with the next letter in a word: ذكي, هذه.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thank you, not_a_thing, and for the lovely link. Have a lingot. (For all the use it can do you!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/poptropica5

You say the long vowel before the hamza doesn't help, so the hamza goes on a different letter, why then does it go on the U sound in Fu'ád?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

When Hamza (glottal stop that is) comes in the middle of the word, we look at the vowel of the consonant before it. If the letter before it is not a consonant, but rather a long vowel, then we take a look at the Hamza itself, is it ('i), ('u) or ('a) and we decide then how to write it accordingly.
In Fu'ád, فؤاد, the consonant before Hamza (F) bears the vowel (u) -فُـ- thus we write Hamza on Waw ؤ because the letter before Hamza here bears (u) sound.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emma890095

Hi! Could you please explain what you mean with F bears the vowel U? Does it mean that in this name U comes after F and it is not a long vowel so it can carry the hamza? So if after F came a long vowel the hamza would be placed on the alif? Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

First of all, we have to focus on the fact that the written word depends on the spoken word, and not vice versa.

Writing Hamza in Arabic, specifically in the middle (and the end) depends on the vowel on the consonant before this Hamza.
For example, in the name "Fu2ád" - we see that the consonant before the Hamza (2) is (F). "F" has the vowel (u) (as you can recall, in Arabic, short vowels are written upon or under the consonant/letter). Now, because of that, we write the Hamza on Waw as ؤ. The Dhammah on (F) فُ does NOT transform or anything; It is there, but we write the Hamza on Waw just as a sign for the reader that the short vowel on the consonant before Hamza is (U). Hence فُؤاد.

To extend this further, notice this: The plural for (Fu2ád) -as a word, which means heart or core- is (Af2idah). Hope you are getting used to using (2) for Hamza here.
Now, how to write this word in Arabic? The glottal stop/hamza is preceded by a consonant which has NO vowel (i.e. Sukún) -> af2idah. In that case, we look at the glottal stop or Hamza itself, what vowel does it bear? Apparently, it is (i). Thus, this hamza must be written on a Sinnah ئ, And the word af2idah would then be written as أَفْـئِـدَة.

Another example: Take the proper name (lu2ay). The consonant before the Hamza is (L), and it bears the vowel (u). Thus, the hamza must be written on Waw (regardless of what vowel happens to be on the Hamza), and thus the name is written as: لُـؤَيْ.

Long vowels in this rule are treated as (silents) or like letters with (sukún). Treated as and NOT spelled as. Take the word for airplane for example: Tá2irah. Since there is a long vowel before the Hamza (2), which is (á), we look at the Hamza itself and see what vowel does it have? It is (i). Thus, the word is written as: طائِرَة.

So, in a nutshell: The shape or writing of the Hamza, depends on the vowel of the consonant before it. If the consonant has a short (a) then Hamza is written on Alif أ, and if the consonant has a short (i) then Hamza is written on Sinnah ئ, and if the consonant has a short (u), then Hamza is written on Waw ؤ. If the consonant before Hamza has a long vowel attached or has a sukún (i.e. no vowel, stable, or clustered, all expressions mean the same thing), then we look at the vowel of the Hamza itself and write it accordingly under the same rules.

Hope all this is clear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jss.___

I think that he means it should be a short u (damma) if there were no hamza. I guess that you cannot write the hamza on the F being there already a short vowel, so you change the damma for a waw.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fargulio

Why not this is the new wall


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barbalea

If i understand correctly it would be "haza al-wall al-jadid"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThereseDrum

All walls are new in the eyes of a baby. But if no one is there to observe a wall - does it age? That is the question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaariele

what is the correct pronunciation of الْحائِط ? al-Haa2iT?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

In the audio it is correct as it is. Al-Haa2itu. Maybe if you are confused about the usage of numbers, it can be written in a different way: al-h^á'it^u
Anyway, it sounds OK in the audio


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaariele

But why you put a "u" in the final? why Haa2iTu and not Haa2iT ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

Ah, this is actually how the grammar in Arabic works; By changing the endings of the words to fit into that specific position. Here, the word الحائطُ is the subject of the sentence (the sentence here being "nominal" sentence). Subjects of sentences are said to be in "nominative" status. Words in Nominative status in Arabic, under normal simple conditions like this one, should end with -u (or Dhamma ـُ ).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaariele

ok, thanks. I think duolingo doesn't explain these grammatical rules...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

To what I see, it seems Duolingo is more like teaching the language for a traveler. They are mixing Arabic with dialects, Some words here are not perfectly Arabic. Also, they don't care much about the cases and grammar. I've noted many mistakes in the audios. The audios here are done by a text-to-speech machine which ironically does not know how to speak. On many occasions there were words ending with (-a) where it should be (-u), and many many other mistakes. I don't know where are they going with this but at least people can focus on some vocabulary to enrich their gain a bit and then maybe, if they want to get serious about it, learn Arabic elsewhere with more accurate settings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EricAlsaid

Could جدار be used here as well?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

Yep. Not sure about Duolingo though but جدار and حائط have the same meaning in general (those who are deep into literature and classical Arabic might differentiate between the two as one being the wall of a garden specifically and one is a general wall for a house or some construction but nowadays in general use, both words work)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nahin359525

What is the difference between this wall is new and this is a new wall


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

The answer is above, quote:

Nope. The meaning is different whether in Arabic or in English alike. As beginning, I'll translate both sentences:

  • This is a new wall: هذا حائطٌ جديد (háδá Há2iTun jadíd).
  • This wall is new: هذا الحائطُ جديد (háδá al-Há2iTu jadíd).

Where (δ) is similar to the English (th) in (this).

In the first sentence, you would be pointing to some "new wall". Grammatically speaking, the adjective (new) is attached to the noun (wall), and this is called an attributive adjective. Attributive adjectives with their nouns are dealt with a single entity. So, in the first sentence, the subject is (this) while the predicative, or the information to be delivered is (a new wall). In the second example, the subject altogether is (this wall), and the predicative, or the information to be delivered is (new).

concerning situations, imagine for example that you are explaining to someone something about walls; Most of them are ancient, while one of them is relatively new, so you would say (this wall is new). Meanwhile, if you are pointing to some wall (let's say it was not there before), you would be using (this is a new wall). All in all, such differences in pointing out what is the subject and the predicative do exist in most languages and they make a difference in the idea to be delivered, and Arabic is no exception. This difference is made in Arabic by controlling which noun and which adjective would be getting the definite article (AL).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SafaaAsif

exactly what I am thinking I feel like the answers are WAY WAY WAY too specific


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shilgalis

هذا الحائط جديد should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AyaanAhmed20511

How would you say "This is the new wall" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

This would be: هذا هو الحائط الجديد
The usage of هو (he/it) here is kind of emphatic and does not equal (is) in English (I have to say this because some teaching books make up this point to make people understand Arabic in English terms).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AyaanAhmed20511

Thanks. Have a lingot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sameer643882

What about 'This is the new wall.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

The answer is above in this thread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hebzzzzzzz

Shouldn't this sentence be translated to "this is the new wall"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

This is the new wall: هذا هو الحائط الجديد


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sooleyone

my answer should be accepteted. This wall is new is the same as this is a new wall


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

Nope. The meaning is different whether in Arabic or in English alike.
As beginning, I'll translate both sentences:

  • This is a new wall: هذا حائطٌ جديد (háδá Há2iTun jadíd).
  • This wall is new: هذا الحائطُ جديد (háδá al-Há2iTu jadíd).

Where (δ) is similar to the English (th) in (this).

In the first sentence, you would be pointing to some "new wall". Grammatically speaking, the adjective (new) is attached to the noun (wall), and this is called an attributive adjective. Attributive adjectives with their nouns are dealt with a single entity. So, in the first sentence, the subject is (this) while the predicative, or the information to be delivered is (a new wall).
In the second example, the subject altogether is (this wall), and the predicative, or the information to be delivered is (new).

concerning situations, imagine for example that you are explaining to someone something about walls; Most of them are ancient, while one of them is relatively new, so you would say (this wall is new). Meanwhile, if you are pointing to some wall (let's say it was not there before), you would be using (this is a new wall).
All in all, such differences in pointing out what is the subject and the predicative do exist in most languages and they make a difference in the idea to be delivered, and Arabic is no exception. This difference is made in Arabic by controlling which noun and which adjective would be getting the definite article (AL).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

If the sentence says, هَذا الحائطُ "hadhaa 2al-Haa2iT(u)" (ie. this wall), it can also mean:

هَذا الحائطُ اي: هَذا هُو الحائطُ

(This is the wall)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SafaaAsif

I wrote "this is a new wall", guess what though it's wrong but my problem is WHY THE HELL IS IT WRONG?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

the answer is above


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SafaaAsif

My friend thank you, I knew the answer is above but my point is both things mean the same thing so why has my answer been considered wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SafaaAsif

Thanks for the help though


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

Actually, nope they are not the same thing. Logically and linguistically or syntactically.

Arabic aside, there are moments when you would use this is a new wall and other moments where you want to use this wall is new.

A sentence is typically divided into 2 essential parts: Subject, and predicative. The subject is typically the thing that does the verb or action, and predicate is the outcome or result. For the case of simplicity, I will remove the adjective (new) from the sentence above:

  1. This is a wall: In this sentence, you are identifying something to be a "wall". In this sentence, "this" is a subject, and "a wall" is a predicate.
  2. This wall is…: In this sentence, you are telling something about the wall; You telling its status. I've removed the adjective (new) here as I've said but here, the predicate can be anything. This, you are not really identifying an object, but rather telling the status of an object (by some adjective or anything else).

Such order of subject and predicate (and the location of the verb "to be" in some languages) play a major role in logic and in what is being delivered to the listener: Is it identification, or is it a new item of information/description of something that is known already to the listener.

Hope that helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SafaaAsif

O so then "Al-" means "the" ok that makes sense thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

Yes, (AL) is the definite article in Arabic, equivalent to (the) in English, but, there are quite some differences in its functioning, specially that Arabic originally has no (of) and no verb (to be) in nominal sentences (sentences starting with nouns) and such differences are gauged and controlled by the presence and absence of (AL).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tish829597

can't get my head round the difference 'this wall is new' as opposed to 'this new wall'. Keep fluffing this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1357

The answer is down in this thread

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