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  5. "غُرْفة اَلْأُسْتاذة رانْيا"

"غُرْفة اَلْأُسْتاذة رانْيا"

Translation:Professor Rania's room

July 16, 2019

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bonjour689181

The room of professor Rania, should also be accepted. Why to have possessive form all the time? I have written similar comments elsewhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/somynasrollahi

Because ال refer to professor. Not for "room"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

But in English, "professor Rania's room" means exactly the same as "the room of professor Rania". It's just a question of style. "professor Rania" is equally definite in both English phrases, ال or no ال .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zambak0800

"Professor Rania" sounds strange to me. If we are familiar, I will call her Rania (not professor). If we are not familiar, I will call her Professor [surname]. Is it different in Arabic cultures?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1356

Usually if the person is a teacher or some sort of academic of higher status, they would be called with a title, even if he or she is familiar. As long as the person is not a family member, or a friend, or a regular acquaintance, then the title is kept.
I'm from an older generation and this is how we used to respect people; Nowadays, I really don't know how "culture" goes. I'm 40 now, and I would still call my teacher in high school as Ustáth أستاذ (here it is used for professor, but it basically is used for "teacher") when I would see him.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zambak0800

Thank you for the prompt answer and the context about generational differences. There is one part of my question that is still not answered. As an example, Emran El-Badawi is a professor in Texas. I can't see a context where he would be "Professor Emran". If he is my friend or my brother, he is just Emran and I don't use a title. In a professional context, he would never be "Professor Emran" because using the first name is too familiar; he should be called Professor (actually Dr.) El-Badawi.

My example works in English, but does the same idea hold true in Arabic?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1356

Oh you mean using the title + last name?
Hmm to my experience (here at least), the last name is typically used between friends in fact. For calling people with the title (like calling my teacher, my professor), we would just say the title. I don't recall using title + first name or last name when calling one of my teachers or professors in college. Unless we are talking about them then we usually use title + (famous name); Famous name here can be the first name or the last name whichever is more widely used for this person specifically, and sometimes even both names. To my own experience, I think I've always used the title+first name when talking about my teachers and professors.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

This is very interesting. So there really is a marked difference between English/American custom and Arabic. I agree with zambak 0800 that we would never dream of saying eg Professor Mary. I was also surprised that "the last name is typically used between friends", which I think is the opposite of what would be done in the west. Here friends would be more likely to use the first name. Or have I misunderstood? Did you mean with or without the title? Also, to clarify, by "last name" we mean the family name, and "first name" means the given name. When you say "calling people", I suppose you mean "addressing people"? Calling could mean phoning. But, wow, I had no idea that it would be normal, in Arabic, to talk about someone with a title using the title and their FIRST name. Completely different from here. Thanks a lot. So here, for once, DuoLingo is showing us an interesting part of Arab culture, not just giving us an absurd phrase to translate. And well done, zambak0800, for raising the matter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1356

Yes, I meant "addressing" people.
And yes, friends sometimes call each other with the last name instead of the first. Some even closer friends, might call each other with things equivalent (sort of) to "dude" or "man" or "bro" (approximating here).

Just as an example, let's suppose someone that goes by the name: Ali Al-Sálim (As-Sálim), -hypothetical name here- his friends might call him Sálim. My last name (family name) is Al-Shemaly, some friends would call me Shemaly (notice how AL is dropped in these examples).

Worth noting this is a cultural thing, at least maybe in the Gulf region specifically. It has nothing to do with linguistics and I'm not sure if it is something that is "pan-Arabic". It is just how people in this specific region sometimes call each other. Nicknames are also used sometimes - so there is really no "absolute" rule or system for such behavior.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Well, that's very interestingly different from how it's done in English. Thanks. And once again, thank you to zambak0800 for bringing this up. The rest of us probably thought DL was having one of their regular jokes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NachshonB

[I don't think this usage of family name is a dialect thing or even an Arabic thing. I think this is a masculine thing. Young men in groups of their peers tend to use last names for some of the members as a way to express casual familiarity, so I found in my country.

Does it exist in other cultures? I think so, but not sure. Judging by american media, I can find hints for the existance of this fenomena, even if as a rarity. For example, in the last season of survivor, one contestant, a female cop, asked the host to call her by her last name, as he does sometimes to some male contestants.

But this is probably more prominant in muslim Arab-speaking cultures, where there is sometimes an abundance of "Mohammed"s or similar common name, creating confusion.]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zambak0800

Nachshon, I agree. In the US, some friends can call each other by last name. However, we can't call the teacher by first name.

I'm from the US, and in middle school I had a math teacher who was equally likely to address students, male and female equally, by given name or surname. He was trying to be cool, but I think the female students found it a little strange. I think it may be more common among (some groups of) male friends or among (either gender) sports teams. We were math nerds in the advanced class, so, at least for me, it came off a little strange. However, this math teacher was also the wrestling coach, so at least I can see where he was coming from.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarbaraLeitgeb

The room of professor Rania.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdirahman751232

Is the اَلْ necessary here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1356

Yes. It connects the two nouns in a genitive relation: غرفة and أستاذة

In dialects though they wouldn't care about it and simply say the same sentence without care for the short vowels and the AL.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mihai-Seba1

Tell me why "the professor Rania s room" is wrong:/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1356

I'm not a native English speaker, but I don't think anyone says (the professor Rania's) in English. Typically it would be Professor Rania's without (the) - or the room of professor Rania (but some people reported that Duolingo doesn't accept this answer).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan569895

Im getting this new possession exercises right but not sure i understand it...it's very difficult!

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