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"Your neighbor Omar is a fast translator, Mike."

Translation:جارَك عُمَر مُتَرْجِم سَريع يا مايْك.

July 31, 2019

12 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bravemane

جارك، تكتب بالضمة على الراء و ليس الفتحة.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Bravemane:

جارُكَ

You're correct :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

I don't know about the other learners but for now I still can't read too well, I'm slow and I need to think :)

and when I have to recognise a word my eyes often go to the beginning or to the end because the way letters are written in the middle is still a bit confusing for me. especially meem, noon, ghayn (the ones with "circular" shape). especially hamza is difficult to spot T___T

a question : do natives use all of those harakat when writing texts or emails etc? or is it a formal way to write? thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

mintchocolate190:

Hi, yes, it is difficult even for people who often recite Quran but cannot speak Arabic. When they learn Arabic and read the fonts, it become a different situation. So "keep practicing" is the only way to acquire this language :)

For your first question, as far as I know, they do not use any Harakaat for their daily conversations (like as "text messaging").

For writing, we can say that putting some Harakaat is also a formal way. We see that some books that are published only for non-native Arabic speakers contain many Harakaat at each word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

thanks for explaining :) yes I had never really thought about the fact that many people recite prayers in Arabic even if this is not their native language. it's the same situation we had in Europe with Latin during Middle Age I think, more or less.

anyway I'm practicing every day and I'm improving. but I don't really know in which kind of Arabic these sentences are expressed, I often read comments from other users so I don't think it is MSA. I don't know which is the best thing to start with, right now I'm just learning as much as I can about writing, pronunciation and letters' connection. I'm enjoying learning this language a lot :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

mintchocolate190:

You're most welcome :)

Yes, you're correct. People who cannot read Arabic fluently depend on the full-Harakaat and its translation. If not, they will be confused.

That's very interesting. I guess it was like in Europe, especially Roman Empire. (There's also Latin course in Duolingo).

For Duo's Arabic course, they try to mix up both MSA (Arabic fuS-Ha or standard grammar) and some Arabic dialects (perhaps, Egyptian and Levantine) as they want this course for instance/direct conversation purpose (so, it's Arabic for travellers like TJ_Q8 said).

For your question "the best thing to start", we will answer it by the following conclusion...

The ideal way to learn Arabic is by learning the closest language with the original/"ancient" one, (ie. standard grammar) as it will beneficial when we recite Quran and read many books. Also, it's practiced in many native and non-native Arabic countries.

Probably, some native Arabic speakers who don't understand the essentials (ie. we may say: 'they are ignorant') would laugh us because we speak like "ancient people". (But, actually "ancient" version is the best ever. Arabic people in the past didn't need any Harakaat or even any dot to read the fonts. So, in the past writing "ب" and "ت" were same. It was because their abilities were too high :D)

However, many good resources are not easy to be obtained for some people. Hence, we start studying Arabic with all resources that we can get now, whether it's standard or not (including Duolingo).

As long as we enjoy and keep continuing, nothing to worry about it, I believe someday we will acquire this language :)

So, the best way : we start the learning with what are available for us even though it's not ideal.

Learning Arabic really needs hardworking and persistent effort ^___^

Note: some contributors still try to improve this course and fix the issues.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

do you mean that in the past harakat didn't even exist? I didn't know that, interesting :)

yes the Roman Empire made Latin the most important language (it had the same role that English has today or that Arabic had regarding sciences and culture in the past). during the Middle Age Latin was the language of religion and culture. prayers and books about every subject were in Latin. to prove how important it is... we still study Latin (and Greek) in high school :)

Italian sounds different from Latin, language changed a lot. even if many words come from Latin (and Greek). anyway same story with italian, there are many people who don't perfectly know their language, for example they don't know how to conjugate some verbs (in everyday life we tend to use really "basic tenses") or the range of words they know is not so wide as it can be for someone who reads a lot.

I agree with the idea that we can't always wait for the "perfect" source to start learning. I remember that a month ago I was thinking about starting studying but I was clearly procrastinating because I didn't really know how to start, so I was just randomly looking for some useful apps and then I remembered I had subscribed here too ^^ so here I am. did you know that in Italian when something is really difficult or when we can't understand anything we say "this is Arabic"? hhh :D
I'm studying from multiple sources but this app has been really useful to start ^^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

mintchocolate190:

Yes, they didn't need it :) Also, that's why there are multiple valid narrations of how to read Quran as all are correct ways... For "ملك", some read "maa-liki..." "مٰلِك" with a long ma (means The Owner), some read "maliki..." "مَلِك" with a short ma (means The King). Absolutely, it's interesting, we will not waste our time for this. :D

Wow, that's interesting! So you all study Greek also. As far as I know, Ancient Greek was used for religion and culture, similar to Latin. But, some Greek fonts have been changing.

Talking about changing, do you know that Arabic is one of the most stable language? It doesn't have much alteration. (That's why standard Arabic is preferred).

Wow, I don't know that Italy was influenced a lot by Greek, I thought it was only by Latin.

haha that's a coincidence, Russians and Ukrainians also feel the same, some says their new generations make many grammatical mistakes. Some Chinese descendant says young people aren't taught how to write the Chinese fonts as much as like their previous generations. Javanese youngsters couldn't speak "basa krama" well (our polite language) but we just use "basa ngaka" (less polite). [Javanese not Japanese, both are different. Javanese is in Indonesia].

So, I think it's a global issue.

Yes, same like me. I began the study arbitrarily, luckily, there were many available free sources for Arabic. So, I tried to use them all. And, now I am still in here.

haha perhaps, it's because Italian is near to Latin and far from Arabic. I think all languages have tendency at each own. Arabic is near to Hebrew, Persian, and Urdu so Arabic people should be easier to learn Hebrew than other people. Japanese is near to Chinese, Russian is near to Ukrainian. Meanwhile, Indonesian is near to Malay, etc. But, many of them (Russian, Chinese, Indonesian, etc.) are struggling to learn English. "English is difficult".

Glad to hear that you have found how to start your learning's journey ^____^

I give you a lingot for your nice info and excellent efforts :)))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

@Away54 : I can't reply anymore on that thread. I didn't know anything about Indonesia and Javanese language ^^ anyway I remember that Roman Empire was influenced a lot by Greek culture. the Romans were really practical and simple people their main activity was agriculture, so I don't think they were too much into literature, poetry and philosophy, as far as I remember most part of these things were inspired by Greek culture (especially South of Italy was a Greek colony). and Greek culture itself had been influenced by the Arab culture and wisdom. some Italian words are similar to Arabic I think . for example the names of the months, I looked for them yesterday ("gennaio" is January, "febbraio" is February, "marzo" is march, "aprile" is April, "maggio" is May etc). thanks for giving me a lingot, one lingot for you too ^^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

mintchocolate190:

Ok :) don't worry there's also Indonesian course in Duo ^^

That's very interesting, indeed! It's relevant because Greek Empire came before Roman's.

Wow, it's great if some Italian words are similar to Arabic! I don't know much about Italian words. But I see Italian has many similarities with Spanish (if I am not wrong) and some Spanish words are correlated with Arabic (though it's debatable by some) like "Usted" and "Ustaadh". :)

So that's why Italians give a name "Gennaro" for their sons because they are born in Gennaio :D

For the names of the months, Ancient Arabians didn't take Gregorian and used their own months' names (like rajab, sha3ban, ramaDan, etc.). Then, it was established and spread by Islamic Empire. They named it "hijriyya" (هجرية) calendar as we known it now. If there's some month names like "فبراير" ie. fibraayir (February) , it's taken from other languages, not originally Arabic.

When Roman and Persian Empires were in their Golden Age, Ancient Arabians didn't have a king (no empire) but they applied tribal leaders' system. Romans and Persians weren't interested much to Arabians as there was no much benefit, only dessert and barbarians. They looked like "free land" or isolated area. Maybe, that's why Arabic language was more stable (no much change) because in the past there wasn't influenced too much by outsiders for hundreds of years.

You're welcome and thanks a lot for the lingot, it's iterated then haha ^^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

@Away54 : I want to take many other courses ! at first I was attending more than one but I'm focusing on Arabic right now because it's the next goal and it requires more attention ^^

Italian and Spanish (and other few languages) come from Latin so they have many similarities, especially among common nouns (for example: "cat" is "gatto" in Italian and "gato" in Spanish, "red" is "rosso" in It and "rojo" in Sp, "year" is "anno" in It and "año" in Sp etc... but for example "yellow" is "giallo" for Italians but in Spanish is "amarillo" so nothing to do hhh).

yes as far as I know Gennaro is a really common name in some areas, especially near Napoli I think. Gennaro is the name of a Saint but it must be related to the month of January.

I must have understood those months' name were the translation of the Gregorian months, I didn't know Arabic original months' names, I just knew the most important ^^

Best wishes and keep studying :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

mintchocolate190:

Yes, mine either! I focus on one language first "Arabic" :)

You all are lucky then ^^ studying Latin-based languages will be easier... hhh

It's interesting!

Arabic months are different, they have their own calculations. The maximal days in one month are 30 (no more than that) and the minimal days are 29. Originally, changing months is counted by "ru2ya al-hilal" (seeing the month's change directly by our eyes, ie. the smallest crescent is seen).

Thanks a lot, best wishes to you too. Hope you're successful in your study :D

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