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  5. "أَنْتِ مِن أَلْمانْيا يا جود…

"أَنْتِ مِن أَلْمانْيا يا جودي."

Translation:You are from Germany, Judy.

August 2, 2019

46 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dirtynho

So, does يا behave as a vocative marker here? Like a comma in, say, Spanish, for example?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

Yep. It is a vocative article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mahrukhsoh1

How can we come to know the meaning of the word المانيا when u have not taught us that before ... come on plz teach the words with meaning l.. if your teaching us "3abad" plz let us know the meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EvemarieMo

The first section I did (until yesterday) was horribly repetitive. Now, all of a sudden, you are throwing Arabic words and letters at me that I have never seen before, and I feel I cannot even guess. Even having the sounds is not necessarily helpful because I am wearing hearing aids, and they do not correct my hearing completely. What exactly are you expecting of me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pszemekkk

Which letters didn't you see before, they were all in previous lessons. They were repetitive so you would remember them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikKaufma2

What is that character that makes the 'm' sound in 'ألمانيا' here on Duolingo? Google Translate spells Germany slightly differently.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

I think it's a font issue for you (not an issue in fact just a change of style of calligraphy). Sometimes in some styles of writing, مـ (m) is written under لـ (L) and it appears like a little notch or stroke under the لـ.

try to change the font of display if possible and see if that changes for you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AMHW12345

Meem "م" ( ـم ، مـ ، ـمـ)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe232102

Sorry, but what kind of Arabic grammar are we learning here...?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

I don't think Duolingo has any intention to focus on grammar really. They are merging MSA and dialects (specially Egyptian). It's improper for me as an Arab but probably they are aiming at teaching somewhat of a "traveler's Arabic"
The speech machine they are using are quite bad and not adequate to say Arabic words. I've posted before about having a real narration from a real person instead but I don't think this is coming.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arjuna973384

This is important, is there no way we can highlight this to them?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arjuna973384

Do you find the google translate voice is closer to the true pronunciation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

Not sure really. I didn't check thoroughly with Google Translate. However, I think GT is just another machine. So, I'm expecting errors as well. Not sure how to highlight that to them but they are supposed to check these forums and see what problems people are facing. I don't see much contributors re-acting here anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mad.Bsa

Grammar pretty much the same for all dialects.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

@TJ_Q8 - long comment but read if you have some time :) I don't know why but I can't quote you anymore in that thread. ....cases' function is identifying which role a word has in the sentence. this is an article from the web but I simplified it a lot ^^ : {1) nominative : case for the subject of the sentence. 2) genitive : case that expresses possession, easily translated by the preposition "of". 3) dative : case of the indirect object, the person "to" something is given ["dare" means "to give"]. 4) accusative : case for the direct object of transitive verbs. 5) vocative : usually the same as nominative, used when you address someone directly. 6) ablative : the most complex case. It can be used by itself or as the object of prepositions, it's used to express ideas translated by the prepositions "from, by" and "in" (to give idea of origin, instrumentality, place where, time when etc) } :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

Yeah the reply button disappears when the thread gets long.

Yes, I know about the cases - this system is the typical way used in teaching, but not all languages follow this "scheme" - so what I see, usually, is that linguists or teachers try to fit a language into that scheme; That doesn't work properly always.

For example, in Arabic, the "case" and the "declension" are two separable things. Another example, the "dative" case is not exactly there in Arabic; However, when the verb is about "giving" or "doubting" (and maybe some few), such verbs in Arabic are said to take two accusatives; We don't have a special terminology for "dative". Example:

  • The man gives Ahmad a gift: الرجل يعطي أحمد هدية (ar-rajulu yu3Tí aHmada hadiyyatan).

In this example, we say that (Ahmad) is a first accusative, and (gift) is a second accusative. The accusative takes the status of منصوب (mancúb) and the sign for (Mancúb) in singular nouns is fatHa (-a) on its end.

And there are other examples of such sort, like: مفعول مطلق (absolute accusative?) or ظرق زمان (temporal adverb?) and ظرف مكان (spatial adverb?) - these names in English are my own translation actually; I'm not sure if they are correct under the Western scheme.

When a noun comes after a preposition, we don't consider a case (i.e. we don't call it a special name like prepositional for example as in Russian). We simply call the preposition حرف جر (Harf jar: dragging particle) which causes the noun after it to get (-i) ending (again for a singular regular noun), and the noun is said to be Majrúr مجرور

The ambiguity arises when some books trying to teach Arabic, call the Genitive مجرور (majrúr); Majrúr is not a case, it is just a name for the effect inflicted on the word (be it a noun or a verb). The proper name for Genitive in Arabic is إضافة (iDHáfah) which translates as (addition) because nouns are simply added to each other without the help of any medium (this is how "of" works in Arabic). AND... in the Genitive, the second noun in the compound comes as Majrúr (i.e. it ends with -i in normal condition).

It's a long post, sorry, but it's kind of a mess to match the terminologies in the two systems. Basic line is, in Arabic, the case is something and the declension is something else.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

thank you so much :) I just started learning Arabic, I like it a lot ! alphabet and sounds are beautiful ❤️ I'm trying to practice writing while taking quizzes here, my notebook got full in few days XD I'll write down your explanations too^^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

Best of luck.

Just remember, Duolingo is not quite the best place to learn Arabic but could serve just a push in the beginning. The audio here has a lot of mistakes beside the fact that many sentences are closer to dialectal rather than standard Arabic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

you are right, I know an app is not the best place to learn but it helped me a lot in understanding the way in which letters are connected, which was something really difficult when I began. now I know more about harakat sounds too. I'm looking for some online courses to understand more but I just needed something really basic to start. we can say I started by chance, I gave it a try and I liked it so here I am. I hope I will improve, I'm practicing every day :) it's good to realise you understand more day by day. it's a long way but I'll keep practicing :) thank you again !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

Best of luck :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mahum160463

I really learnt soo much Tysm doulingo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mahum160463

Do u learn so plz ^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/faria280387

I gave the right answer but it was shoing wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe232102

I would like to know where is the adding conjuction, I mean...The conjuction "E", please? You are using la "Ya" instead of "waw".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

Waw و means "and"
Ya يا is a vocative article to call names. Almost equivalent to "O" in Classical English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Md.Al-Amin12

What is the difference between 'You're' and 'You are' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Demonym281

Usually nothing, I don't know why they include both options if they are going to say one is a "typo". Both would be fine in this translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichelleDa878143

There is no difference in meaning, although "you're" is more informal. Both should be accepted as correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DSMLMD

What is different between 2anta and 2anti?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

2anta = "you" to a male person. 2anti = "you" to a female person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rob596018

You, Judy, are from Germany would be fine, I would think. Changes the emphasis a bit, but comprehensible


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pszemekkk

Not really the emphasis but it changes the case of the noun. "You, Judy, (...)" is nominative and "You (...), Judy" is vocative. The meaning is the same I guess but it's not the same case I think.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

This is the problem I'm facing here on Duolingo with other languages, specially Russian and Turkish. Duolingo, unfortunately, doesn't work with "comprehensibility" but rather by a word-to-word or a matching translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

what does " يا " exactly mean in this sentence ? is it used to refer to that specific person ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

It is the "vocative particle" in Arabic (along with few others). It is used to call a person (or something).
Somewhat like the classical English (O) I'd say, or if you are familiar with Irish, they use (A) in that language.
Usually the purpose of such article or particle (in any language) is to get attention.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

the closest thing I can think about is the vocative case in Latin. thanks for explaining me :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

Most welcome.

Yep, Latin would work. I know it has a vocative case but I don't remember if they used a specific particle before the word


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mintchocolate190

talking about Latin cases, there is no particle before the word, words have different suffixes which help recognising the case. I remember the easiest declension (from 1st group) with the word "rosa, rosae" (rose, f. ) which is literally the first thing you are taught when studying . 1) nominative : rosa (rosae) 2) genitive : rosae (rosarum) 3) dative : rosae (rosis) 4) accusative : rosam (rosas) 5) vocative : rosa (rosae) 6) ablative : rosa (rosis) * plural forms are in brackets :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

Thanks!

yes, now I see how linguists usually try to understand a language - they are using this hierarchy.

I'm having hard time explaining "cases" sometimes because when we study Arabic we do have another system and few points meet up in one way or another but not in a direct way


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cristian685360

Omití la coma y me marcó mal


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichelleDa878143

No se marcan mal por las comas. Debe de haber otra cosa. Repáselo bien, porque yo he buscado un error por cinco minutos o más, antes de encontrarlo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulBrehen2

It looks right to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sayful_Islam

Actually this question?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1416

No. To make it a question one would add (in a perfect question format): هَلْ (Hal).

So, هَل أنتِ من ألمانيا يا جودي؟ = Are you from Germany, Judy?

This said, in a typical conversation (whether in standard Arabic or dialect) one can ask questions like this using the change of the tone of the voice. I guess this is available in every language.

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