https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TerryGatec

When will the new Japanese Tree become available to everyone?

I don't want to start a new account just to receive the updated tree. I thought that A/B testing would have wrapped up by now, and the expanded tree would be official. I'm really looking forward to this.

August 2, 2019

47 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ehartz

Unfortunately, we don't really have a firm answer about when the new tree might be expanded to all users. If the metrics remain positive, I hope it will be September, but I certainly can't make any promises.

But for those of you who created a new account in order to access the new tree - please continue doing exercises on that tree, preferably daily, if you want to make sure our metrics remain positive and the tree can get expanded to all users. ;P

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JpFan3

Please update us again in September if the target has moved or near September if release is immenient.

I know it isn't an exact science and can change anytime, but letting us know the current target and range that the metrics are pointing is greatly appreciated. Thanks for giving us the real answer as it stands.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ehartz

Sadly, I don't think it's going to work that way? We don't get those kind of updates, so it basically impossible for us to pass them on to you. September is, at best, an educated guess I have based on the information that I know, but based on what I've been hearing from other trees currently in (or possibly reaching the end of) A/B, it definitely isn't 100% clear even to us contributors what exactly the target is that triggers a new tree iteration passing.

If we do get some kind of announcement/advanced warning, I will try to pass it on to you, but I honestly don't feel totally confident that I'll know anything. It's entirely possible that we'll hear that the tree passed only once it's already being implemented to all users. This is actually why I rarely post anything about this on the forums - because it always results in people asking for information I don't have and can't give them, and often that leads to people being frustrated with the contributors. D:

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JpFan3

Understood. Well it is still nice to know the tree is staying positive in the metrics, and sharing that with us is nice to know as the compared to what little you know, it is even more oblique to the end user, so those breadcrumbs still mean a lot.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelvin401862

この非常に必要な更新をありがとう。

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DestinyCall

I bet the new tree doesn't even exist. It's all just an elaborate hoax to steal our precious lingots when we make a new account.

Sneaky owl, you won't fool me so easily! I'm on to you, Duo.

August 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaDun8187

you realize updating trees can be proven difficult.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Little_Tatws

I would've thought the new one would be available now for everyone. Rest assured, it's pretty well worth the wait. There are several new skills and old skills are updated. Overall the kanji learning mechanic is much better than before (though it could still stand to be more updated).

If you've finished or are close to finishing or are in the process of making your skills gold, I would wait and be prepared to lose a ton of progress. Maybe test out another language in the meantime? Navajo and Hawaiian (though this one is almost ready to be lengthened) are pretty short so they'd be easy to grind through.

August 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zanzaboonda

Ohh, hmm. I've been working on leveling up. Bummer. I'll take your advice.

August 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/testmoogle

I know how you feel about not wanting to create a new account to do the new tree.

I also don't have the new tree on either this account or my main account.

On this account I've been doing the original tree (1.0), which I completed 27 months ago... I've been keeping my streak going on this same Japanese tree all this time (831 day streak). I only made this account because the course was still in alpha when I started it on web, but I've ended up using for longer than planned and have been using this account for all my discussion posts...

On my main account I've been doing the reverse tree since back when that course was in beta. I want to return to that account completely one day... But, at the moment, I'm keeping my daily streak going on both of these two accounts...

Two and a half months ago I had to create yet another account in order to get the new Japanese tree (2.0) when the first A/B test for it began. For a while I tried to ignore the streak, but once you get a streak you don't want to lose it...

So now I've ended up with three accounts that I'm keeping my streaks going on. By the time I've extended my streak on my main account, this account, and my new account, I don't feel like doing many more lessons on top of this.

And since I know that I'll be deleting my new account the moment the new tree finally becomes available to everyone and then have to start over when I return to my main account, this is very demotivating towards wanting to put time and effort into progressing through the new tree on that temporary account.

Seems like most of the people who had long completed their tree have ended up in this unlucky A/B group that didn't get the new tree. When I see users like that posting on here I think "I hope at least this person got the new tree", and it seems most often it is "no" in these particular cases. ^^;

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elisabeth3789

Hi @testmoogle, I started the Japanese tree when it came out in beta and completed it ages ago. And I do NOT have the new tree either. I'll just wait though, at least for a while... Just keeping my streak going.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nanase-Miyuki

@testmoogle I am curious, what is the name of your main account?

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/testmoogle

It's probably one of these:

droidmoogle, droidmoogle2, mog86uk, tempmoogle, testmoogle, testmoogle1, testmoogle2, testmoogle3, testmoogle4.

It's never been much of a secret anyway. I'm not very creative with names and profile pictures, so they're pretty easy to spot in my following/followers lists. You can guess which one my main is. :P

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nanase-Miyuki

If I can remember months back, you took a screenshot of your Duolingo desktop and the English courses for CJK speakers were on your account. That was when Japanese and Korean courses for Chinese speakers came out. The account you are using currently has no English course, and I always thought that is your main account.

UPDATE: This is where I found it.

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31880028

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/testmoogle

Funny and awesome coincidence! Look at the new course which has appeared in the Incubator today!

Japanese course for Chinese speakers!

Ladder trees in both directions! Now I really am confused about which would be called a "reverse ladder"! :D

But I'm really happy they're starting to make this course. I hope Korean for Japanese speakers is in the works too. I'll do these courses instead of continuing the English speakers ones. :P

August 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mog86uk

Ah! Yeah, that thread! (Or maybe this one?)

I wanted to be the first to post a thread in the ladder Japanese course (or is it "reverse ladder"?) forum, the same as I did in this Japanese course's forum too. :P

Looks like I took the screenshot on my testmoogle2 account, but posted it while logged into my testmoogle account. Oops. ^^;

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rizzeau

Same here mate. I've finished the original tree in September/October 2017 or something, and yet I'm still on the old tree. It is kinda annoying.

I've also made a new account and it took me four or five tries to get the new tree on a second account. I'm also trying to keep the streak on those two accounts.

For some reason I still hope that the new tree will be available for all users before September

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

Patiently waiting without question will help you understand the Japanese culture. Seriously.

August 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelvin401862

I too am looking forward to getting the new tree.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jkentala

So, I made this account when DuoLingo first released the Japanese tree. I just now picked it back up for supplementary studying. How do I know which version I have? Truth be told, I didn't even know there were different versions! ^^; If I have the older version, would it not benefit me to continue on this account? If I make a new one will I receive the update!? So many questions!

For reference, I passed the JLPT N5 last December. I had heard that, with the new update, it would cover up through N4. Does anyone know if this is true? I heard that quite some time ago and I feel so out of the loop haha is that the version 2.0 everyone is mentioning?

Thank you for the knowledge friends!

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike-lima

If your tree ends with the "Olympics" exercises, then it is the old tree. If the "Olympics" exercises are around halfway through the tree, then you have the new tree. I don't yet know about how much new grammar is there... I just started dipping my toes in the new material -- and I don't know how much additional grammar is there in N4, really.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TerryGatec

Thank you for the responses! I still have quite a bit of the old tree to work on, and revising older lessons is definitely helping some of the grammar to sink in. Thank you again!

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SPOONPAIold2

I tried creating a new account to gain access to the new tree. Sadly it did not work and I still received the old tree.

Is there any way to activate it on my main account? I'd love to have it now due to me starting over now to refresh my japanese.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Procellis

I think the trick is to create a new account, but without creating a profile, and without registering an email address for the account. If it fails you do it again and again until you get the version of the tree that you want. This is the only new account you need to keep, and the only account you need to create a profile for.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xinverse

Instead of creating a new account for the new tree, do we get access to it if we simply reset progress and delete the course by going into settings?

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DestinyCall

Nope. Your A/B test status is account-bound.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike-lima

I am also looking forward to the release of the new tree, as I am now keeping a second account around to try out the 2.0 tree. I just reached the point where lessons are starting to show new material, and things are getting interesting again.

I like the kanji in the earlier lessons, but it would really help to have an hiragana transcript to refer to when needed. I noticed many time I could complete the exercise, as I remember the meaning, but I couldn't pronounce the kanji word.

Maybe the hint feature could be (ab)used to show the hiragana version of the word in addition to the meanings (say use the first slot for the hiragana, and the following for the meaning).

The other thing that is missing is a section on the kanji introduced in the lesson in the lesson notes.

In any case I look forward to the time when I can use my main account for the Japanese study. I don't particularly care I will have to do a bunch of exercises now... but if I go too far in the new tree, I may lose a bit of motivation.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ehartz

Sadly, we can't (ab)use the hint function to include the hiragana, because Duo's system uses hints (among other things) to generate the tiles you use to answer the question (if you don't turn on free typing). In this case, all the "distractor" tiles (tiles that aren't used in the actual answer) might end up being in Japanese for "write the answer in English" questions. This would render the distractor tiles entirely useless, since it is clear hiragana wouldn't be part of the correct English-language answer.

Trust me - if the fix were this easy, someone would have done it already. D:

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike-lima

Ah! Thank you for the explanation.

So, it looks like the Duolingo developers baked in too many assumptions in the way the course should work, that break apart for many languages.

This is not a Japanese specific problem, I think all languages with non phonetic writing system would benefit from a way to recall pronunciation hints.

It would be nice if more effort was directed towards the support of more languages instead of the gaming part or the user interface...

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

I think you may be underestimating the difficulty of the task at hand, across three platforms (iOS, Android, Web). Programming such things with double byte characters across displays can be a monumental task.

August 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mokurai

In any form of software development, it is well known that

The first 90 percent of code construction uses up 90 percent of development time, and the remaining 10 percent of code construction accounts for another 90 percent.

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/21014/ninety-ninety-rule

Duolingo is doing much better than that.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doalty1

I wonder if I should even bother starting the Japanese tree now or if I should just wait until the new one comes out.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/testmoogle

How will you know that you don't already have the new tree if you don't start it now? (Or have you checked already?)

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doalty1

Hmmm, how can I tell whether or not I have the new tree?

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/testmoogle

If it has 40 skills (the final skill being "Olympics"), then it's the original tree (1.0).

If it has 92 skills (the final skill being "Colloquial"), then it's the new tree (2.0).

There are two A/B tests currently running which decide who gets which tree.

The first A/B test is giving the new tree to 50% of brand new Duolingo accounts.

The second A/B test has given the new tree to 50% of preexisting Duolingo accounts.

I had eight accounts before the A/B test began. Four got left on the original tree; four got switched to the new tree. (Unfortunately, the ones I wanted to get the new tree were the ones which didn't...)

It's just down to luck whether you ended up in group A (keep the original tree) or group B (get the new tree). At 50% chance, it's the same probability as a coin toss for which one you have right now. ^^

August 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doalty1

Thanks for the detailed information, much appreciated. My account has kept the original tree. I guess I'll work through it until the new tree takes over.

August 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nanase-Miyuki

We don't know, the tree might still be on A/B test for another few months but there is no word from contributors for a while. I have been waiting too, and I have been checking the Japanese course (currently not doing it) every day for the new tree and only see the old tree every time.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaDun8187

i hope they add kanji lessons to the new and improved tree. lol.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidNorman3

I think I have the new tree... Is that wrong???

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DestinyCall

No?

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidNorman3

I mean... It's either that or just a really updated version of the first tree.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/5IS3RY7k

So if I'm reading all of this right, in order to access the new content when the Japanese tree updates, I will have to start a new account entirely and lose my streak, lingnots and XP? I mean, I'll do it if I have to; I'm here to learn the languages after all, but that's pretty frustrating. I'm pretty new to Duo, though, and I'm hoping that I'm misunderstanding something.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pez620341

No, the tree will get an update on your main account eventually. Creating a new account is just for those who can't wait and are ok with the current new version where there are still bugs to fix.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/5IS3RY7k

Thank you for the clarification. :)

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DestinyCall

Also, if you made your account recently, you may already have access. About half of the users are part of the open beta (A/B test) right now.

August 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/THason

I've had my account for a long time, and last year I more or less stopped using the Japanese course - I felt that it didn't work at all. Then a couple of months or three back I decided to try it again, just for the heck of it - and that's when I found that everything was new (I was sent through an initial test too). So I was one of the lucky ones who got 2.0 without creating a new account. I wonder if it had anything to do with my status on the old one (the majority of it at gold due to myself getting bored and just going through the motions, not really learning anything). Or just random luck. The latter I guess. In any case - the 2.0 three is much better than the old one. There are still lots of problems with the audio though. I strongly suspect that the 2.0 tree won't fully replace the 1.0 tree until those issues are solved.

August 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aki-Mugetsu

I have this problem with TWO of the languages I’m learning, it’s actually quite frustrating, even more since I’ve finished the Japanese tree ages ago. I know that contributors themselves are not really informed about this, I wish we could have a way to know.

August 12, 2019
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