Let's see if I got this one right:
The verb here, i.e. andarsene, is a pronomial verb, where -se- is in fact the reflexive pronoun si but where the i is switched to an e when preceding another pronoun, in this case the pronominal particle -ne. Ne indicates »something» or »somewhere».
So if I break this one down I have:
[verb] = andare, »to go» +
[reflexive pronoun] = se, »oneself» +
[pronominal particle] = ne, »somewhere»
= [to go][oneself][somewhere]
When put into work the pronomial verb is split up into its components, like in the sentence in this exercise:
[the reflexive pronun] = mi -> me +
[the pronominal particle] = ne +
[the conjugated verb] = vado
Is this just about right ..? If not, I'll delete the comment :)
These pronomial verbs took me a while to grasp. Hopefully this will help some people. When we think of "andare" we think of "to go". There is another verb called "andarsene" it is like andare but it means "to go away" and is conjugated as follows: Me ne vado Ce ne andiamo Te ne vai Ve ne andate Se ne va Se ne vanno Therefore when you see this, conjugate it as you see above. To interpret this sentence. Me ne vado = I go away/ I leave a casa = to home "I go away to home" OR "I am going home"
Thanks, you've helped a lot. I would still use the easiest way to form a sentence. I hate to admit that I have to cheat to get through this chapter. Once I learn that a certain clitic means one thing, the tables are turned. "Ne" still is nebulous. I kind of get your explanation, but ask why it's necessary to use it. I'm no language scholar, just wanting to have fun with a language that I always wanted to learn because of its musicality. Nevertheless, you are good teaching material. Maybe I would learn this weirdness if you were my teacher.
Thank you for the explanation but I do not understand one word that you said. "reflexive pronoun"? "pronominal particle"? This is a whole new language to me and I have a college degree. What the heck are these things and why can't I understand what you are saying. I am a native English speaker and I have never heard these words. So frustrating but again I thank you for trying to help.
This is not an issue of your college education. These are concepts that should have been taught in jr. high and high school. It certainly isn’t your fault. It is due to the weakening of the educational system. For those of us in our 60’s, this was drilled home to us in our day.
@Bill98991 With all due respect, many of us did learn these concepts in school ("drilled" into us or otherwise) but as native speakers of English (or any other language) we don't have occasion to recall all the terms...in other words we just speak the language fluently with no need to break down sentences conceptually. Fast forward to adulthood when here we are trying to learn Italian and our memory may not be so great with regard to these concepts. Bravo to you for having such tremendous recall of everything you learned in junior and senior high school! Have a little empathy.
"No, You can only choose between "Vado a casa" or "Me ne vado a casa" with the slight difference in meaning. The first is neutral >> I am going home and the second is rather >> I am leaving for home." I answered "I am leaving for home" and it was not accepted. This is very frustrating.
Conjugations of Andarsene http://italian.about.com/library/verb/blverb_andarsene.htm
In this case, the word 'ne' is a part of the verb 'andarsene' (the verb given in this sentence) and means ‘to go away’ or ‘to leave’. 'Andarsene' is a pronominal verb, which means that it has two pronouns that go with it ('si' and 'ne') and those two pronouns modify the meaning of the verb ‘andare’.
Andarsene = andare + si + ne (in this sentence it means 'to leave for' = me ne vado a) The first pronoun 'si' (which changes to 'se' in front of 'ne') is a reflexive one and changes according to the subject, whereas the second pronoun (ne) always stays the same. Reflexive pronouns for all persons are:
mi (myself), ti (yourself), si (himself, herself, itself), ci (ourselves), vi (youselves), si (themselves)
All these Italian reflexive pronouns (mi, ti, si, ci, vi, si) change the final 'i' to 'e' in front of the pronoun 'ne' and thus become: me, te, se, ce, ve, se.
This is how you change it for all persons in the present and past tenses:
io me ne vado (= I am leaving/going away)
tu te ne vai (= you are leaving)
lui/lei se ne va (= he/she is leaving etc.)
noi ce ne andiamo
voi ve ne andate
loro se ne vanno
io me ne sono andato/a
tu te ne sei andato/a
lui/lei se ne è andato/a
noi ce ne siamo andati/e
voi ve ne siete andati/e
loro se ne sono andati/e
I hope this helps!
Do you work for Duolingo? If not, you should. Your explanation is clearer and more detailed than the one they offer in the section on clitics. I found their explanation unintelligible, but can find no way to make suggestions to them about their "tips", only about individual lesson items. Thanks for taking time to write something so useful and clear.
I do like Duolingo but I sometimes fail to see why things are made unnecessarily complicated at an early stage of learning this language. I want to be able to make myself understood in Italian, not to write a new Divina Comedia.
Clitics as such are a pain in the ass. Why add to the confusion with verb forms as "andarsene", when we haven't reached that point of learing yet ..?
It is my understanding that the present progressive tense isn't used nearly as much in Italian as it is in English. It is used only if you are actually doing the action at the time. I.e., you would not say "sto andando" unless you are literally moving toward home. A couple of links:
The following one says "A good rule of thumb is, only use the present progressive if you’re describing an action that’s unfolding while you speak."
crumbs! andar+se+ne. Hold on to your cappelli, miei amici! 1)Andare, to go--easy peasy. 2) Skipping to ne, we know it so far as "of it" or "about it"and NOW"from it." 3)The "me" is a variation of "mi"--the reflexive 3rd person sing. (I hear you sigh!) Here's the rub--before "ne" "mi" changes to "me".
Howcome? you ask. Euphony, my guess, most likely: "Me ne" rhymes and is easy to say.
Me ne vado thus seems idiomatic to me.
Duolingo, couldja please group sentences firstly for pronouns as direct objects, then pronoun indirect objects and then objects of a preposition. Then give us reflexives. My head hurts!
Nobody jostle me, please, or all this grammar is gonna fall out.
Me ne vado: Myself from it I go. "I'm outta here!"
This took a long time for me to get. The concept isn't that hard, it's just that Duolingo doesn't spend much time explaining these verbs.
When you see "me ne vado" don't think of the verb andare, think of the verb andarsene.
andare is conjugated as:
tu vai lui/lei va noi andiamo voi andate loro vanno
Now for andarsene it is: me ne vado te ne vai se ne va ce ne andiamo ve ne andate se ne vanno