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  5. "عَفْواً يا كَري."

"عَفْواً يا كَري."

Translation:You're welcome, Carrie.

August 26, 2019

45 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adriannalatina

The words were excuse me, Carrie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

The word عفواً can be used as "welcome" (for thanks) and as "excuse me" or "pardon"
I know Duolingo might not have programmed all the possibilities - but just to let you know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

KatieC993112 : Well, I have to make a new thread, and I hope you get a notification about it.
Concerning the letters ع and غ; There are a number of videos on Youtube showing Arabs and non-Arabs even saying and teaching the sounds. However, غ is the easier one of these 2; It's similar to the French "R".

As for the grammar nowadays, well, the dialects of everyday life are loose in grammar in general and people don't really think grammatically when they talk. In schools we don't study the dialect but the standard of course and only there we hear about the grammar. Arabic language lessons in schools is typically one of the hardest for many despite being Arabs (me included). I was a failure then, and probably still. However, I didn't get my interest ignited in my own heritage and language till I reached about 30 years of age. I can, however, divide students who study Arabic back in school days to 4 types: Serious, Bookworm, Intuitive, and Ignorant (or fail).
The serious type are those who take these studies seriously because they consider it a heritage and a must to learn; Frankly, I've seldom seen this type, if any. Probably null nowadays with this sweep of globalization.
The bookworm type, is this type of students who are good in Arabic lessons in school because, well, it's school. They study it to get marks not that they are interested in it specifically nor because they do have a "belief" about it. It's like math and science to them; They must get good marks in it.
The intuitive type, is that type somewhere in between. Such students would realize that a word must be declined in that manner and this or that word must be here or there, but they don't know why exactly. In other words, grammar to them comes by sense and intuition sometimes and that comes by reading a lot of Arabic literature and texts, and mainly by reading Quran. This way they grab that sense of the language, but they still make mistakes nevertheless. I think I would include myself in this group.
The last type I guess you knew it by now. It's the type that is simply a fail in the language and it doesn't mean anything to them, but just something annoying and useless.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thank you! One good thing about Duolingo is that they do notify you about messages that include your name. Thanks for the tip about youtube videos for ع غ . I'm trying to learn the positions of the letters on an Arabic keyboard, so that I can teach myself to touchtype in Arabic. Won't that impress my friends! But I'm a long way from that, groping about like a blind person. Those particular letters are the qwerty Y and U. And my favourite letter is س, which is the same place as our S coincidentally. Or not? And my most beautiful word is سوس. I could gaze at that forever. But Google Translate says it means "mite", as in a small insect. Is that its only meaning? I know it comes at the end of the word for liquorice - عرق السوس.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Another thing: Duolingo forces you to revise earlier exercises, and in one of these I have to recognise the word زود, which I would have thought would be pronounced zuud, but the voice sounds like zawed. Is that just malfunction of the audio or something else?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

Believe it or not, I'm still considered a slow-typer when it comes to typing on the Arabic keyboard (maybe faster than a learner but nevertheless, slower than average I guess).
As for the word سوس I remember I've explained some stuff about it in some thread before when you asked about it .... it might have been the thread for فتاة أمريكية ذكية or something like that? I'm not sure.

Edit: As for the word زود ... well I would naturally read it as (zawwada) but I'm not sure what Duolingo really means by this exercise. I remember some people talking about exercises with non-sensical letters combined together just so the beginning learner get used to the letters - the combinations themselves have no real meaning. Unless it is in some context, I wouldn't really be sure what زود is supposed to be.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Hm. You would read it as zawada but Duolingo transliterate it as zuud, while the voice says zawed. Never mind. One makes allowances. And sorry for repeating myself about سوس. But do you know how one can access another thread?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

The quickest way if to return to the old notification emails if you haven't deleted them already.
The other way is by going to the Arabic course forum and then clicking on "sentences" tab and go through all the sentences in this section until you find the sentence you want. Would take a long time I presume.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mahya997274

As far as I know "عفوا" means sorry not "you're Welcome"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

Used for both, as well as for "excuse me"

However, "sorry" is more properly addressed as آسف (ásaf).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/padm915118

Afwan is used in reply to shukran


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

As well as "pardon" or "sorry" according to the situation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S.Sultan

عفوآ excuse me değil mi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/padm915118

in saudi arabia I've heard the word afwan being used when you bang into some one by mistake, or when you cough or sneeze during a conversation or when reply to someone who has thanked you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/padm915118

for excuse me, they say lo samahth, here is saudi arabia


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaKab8

OMG i got it wrong what the heck !! cuz i thought it ment excuse me but I didn't see an option so I saw it mustn't be right so I had no idea what to do so my God Duolingo you need to get your head in the game


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gudrun392655

You are and you're have the same meaning, one is only a shortcut


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

What's the difference between the last letter of 3afuun and the N we learnt earlier - nuun?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

The -an sound at the end of عفوا is more of a grammatical "tool" let's say and it is considered a vowel. It's called Tanwin or Nunation in English.
Tanwin or Nunation has a history in most of the Semitic languages with varying degrees. For example, in Akkadian (an extinct Semitic language), this sound was (-m) and hence it was called by linguists "Mimation" (Arabic: Tamyeem). Anyway, the theory is that such sounds, Nunation or Mimation, were originally nasal, and they do have specific grammatical rule. The case with Arabic, in theory, developed and the nasalization became full (N) sound instead.

Now, to keep it simple. Nunation in Arabic is used in various situations but keeping it to the basics, you can imagine Nunation is like the indefinite sign for a word, just like the English (a/an). Thus, the definite article (AL) cannot occur in the same word with Nunation, in the same way that you cannot merge (the) and (a) in a single English word. This is one of the basics.
Tanwin or Nunation has other uses in the Arabic language, like in this case here with عفوا (3afwan), which is an adverb. Adverbs are typically (not always) noted with Tanwin (-an) at their endings. Of course here, the whole word is just an abbreviation for a sentence; The word عفوا alone means (forgiveness), and in this place as an adverb it stands for something like (please forgiveness for any negligence/failure), and it is the common response to (thank you: شكرا).
Worth noting as well that Nunation or Tanwin would come in 3 flavors: -an, -un, and -in, and this change in the vowel depends on the grammatical status of the word (because in Arabic grammar, the word endings specify the status of the word in the sentence).

Hope it's all clear now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

MUCH APPRECIATED, TJ_Q8! I didn't dare hope for such a full answer. Could you clarify one more thing, though not linguistic: what does XL mean in Duolingo? I see you have 65 in Arabic, but 39652 in Irish. Are you studying Irish, Russian, Turkish and Arabic?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

Well, yes, I do study Irish, Turkish, German and Russian here. Well, trying to. I don't know about the XL thing though I don't see it here on my monitor beside my name or anything.
Also the numbers you've mentioned, I don't see them beside my name but I see the number of the level only (my Irish level is 25). Maybe you are on mobile? I guess some of the displayed info change by changing the system (I always do Duolingo on my laptop or PC, using Windows here).

For the Arabic, I do have (2) beside it. When the Arabic course started I just did some exercises to see what kind of Arabic they are doing or using, but I didn't go deeper into the exercises since I'm a native speaker anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

How interesting. Which dialect of Arabic do you speak? I was hoping this course would teach Levant, but I gather it's MSA, is that right? And I'm proud to say that today I taught myself the Arabic numbers. They seem very daunting at first, but it's quite easy to put some logic to it. Incidentally, do you know if the circle for 5 has anything to do with it being half of 10? There would seem to be some sense in that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

I speak a variety common to Kuwait. Each place might have little variants of the spoken word even between families who live next to each other. However, the major 2 groups of sub-dialects in Kuwait are the Hadhar or Hdhiri (city people) and Bdiwi or Badawi (Bedouin). The major difference though is the tone of the speech and majorly a change in the (J) sound to (Y) in Hadhar. Long story.
As for the numbers, actually, the variant you are talking about is the "Indic" variety. At some point and up until recent times, this variety was the common one across the Arab world and even some people would call them "Arabic numbers/numerals" (specially elders, some still do). However, this is not a precise scientific name. Arabs adapted numbers from the Indian system, and in time it had developed into 2 branches: Western Arabic numerals (which is what we now formally call Arabic numerals), and the Eastern Arabic Numerals (which is sometimes marked as Indic or Indian). Worth noting that speakers/writers of Farsi (Persian), Urdu, and some other languages that adapted a version of Perso-Arabic scripts to write their languages, do have majorly an indic numeral system but different in some numbers' shapes (e.g. "6" across the Arab world would be "٦", but in Farsi it's "۶"). You can check some Wikipedia articles in English for comparison between numerical systems. Farsi shapes and the like are even closer to the older Indic shapes, I would say.
So, generally speaking, I don't think that "5" has anything to do with "10" about its shape. But there is a theory that says that Arabic numerals (1,2,3, etc) were actually developed in such a way that the number of angles in writing each number coincides with its value; But I'm not sure if this has any scientific or historic background at all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Oh, and I don't do Duolingo on my phone. On my computer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeff891289

How can you tell when it means "You're welcome," and when it means "excuse me"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

It seems Duolingo still having problems in accepting valid answer.
Anyway, I will answer this from a real-life point of view. It is simply dependent on the context or the situation.
If you used any of these 2 and Duolingo considered it wrong, then report it (though I'm not sure this does anything really).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thats a good idea, reporting it. Perhaps I can one day persuade Duolingo to stop using "amazing" as the translation for ممتاز !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

Well, good luck with it. I've been reporting things in other courses here for the past 3 years ..... nothing changed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

You say you've been reporting things. But yesterday I finally decided to report something, and it turned out that you can only tick one of multiple choices. There's no opportunity to specify what your criticism is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

I don't know how it works in this course but in other courses usually there are several options, like (Audio is not correct) or (My answer should be accepted) and so on ... 4 or 5 options typically would be available. Anyway, Not much has changed with me reporting some "correct" answers in all languages I'm learning here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

That's terrible! Is there no moderator who checks on these things???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

Well, first things first, the letter you see here is ى (no dots) and it is called (Alif Maqcúrah) meaning "shortened Alif". It is Alif (á) and its presence is simply orthographic (it is needed to write some words instead of the regular Alif for various reasons related to grammar or simply to differentiate between some 2 words). So basically, it is like (Alif) in sound: á (or aa).
Now, The word you've mentioned, رنى (raná) is a verb meaning (to see at a distance/at far). Classical Arabic is full of such delicate words that describe specific status of regular actions. Anyway, I'm not sure of the context of the exercise you are doing, but there is also another word which is رنا (raná); It sounds the same, but this is a female's name. It has a meaning but I'm not sure what it is, but generally speaking it is a common female's name nowadays. So as you can see, the two words sound the same, but written differently. Another example of such words: عصى (3acá: to disobey) and عصا (3acá: stick/cane).

Worth noting that this letter specifically, and unfortunately, typed in a wrong way nowadays, as some people add dots to it making this Alif change to (Y) and this is wrong of course. On the other hand, some people write words that must have (Y) at the end with Alif Maqcúrah instead and it's common (specially in Egypt). In Farsi, people use ى in general for (Y) because they don't the concept of Alif Maqcúrah anyway.

Edit: Saw your other replies after typing the post hehe


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

In theory there is, in practice there is none. Some languages are better updated here, like German and probably French (didn't try it). Some others, are quite forgotten. This course of Arabic was supposed to be in Beta phase, but still I don't know if it is still so or not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Apparently, رَنى is tranliterated as ranaa, (in an letter-recognising exercise I'm doing) but what is that final vowel? I would have expected an alif, but it looks like ii without the two dots underneath. Help please!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

But there also exists the word رَنا ! What's the difference between that and رَنى ? and this word is transcribed exactly the same: ranaa. What's going on?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Sorry sorry. I looked at the tips, and it told you it was an alternative alif. But what's that word, that sounds like ma3sura (the sound isn't brilliant) for the squiggly alif?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Dear TJ, thanks very much for your reply about the two alifs. I loved the detail. And interesting that contemporary Arabs are as careless about spelling (and grammar?) as their European counterparts. And thanks for glossing Maqcurah, which I heard wrong. Great that both ranas are pronounced the same. Simplifies things. My main task - completely different topic - now is to learn to pronounce ع and غ nicely. But I'll probably have to meet a live Arab and not a computer to do that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julia457741

I I honestly didn't understand the meaning of يا


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

يا is a vocative article/particle. Used in before names (other objects sometimes in literature and such). It is almost equivalent to "O" in literature English. Some languages in Europe still use some form of vocative, like Irish.
The purpose is simply to bring the attention of the listener or the one to whom the call is dedicated. In Arabic, there are a number of vocative articles/particles but the most common one is .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julia457741

Thank you! Amazing explanation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

Most welcome


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Suzan502737

Excuse me, which Arabic is this Duolingo course teaching? Classical/fus'ha, modern standard Arabic, eqyptian dialect or something else? Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

A mix. Something I'd call "Traveler's Arabic".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Delta767095

"affedersiniz" and "uzgunum " are Turkish, for heaven's sake! so many Phds here it's no surprise the whole thing is such a ludicrous activity


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1414

?

it seems you are commenting in the wrong forum.

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