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  5. "Salvete, Stephane et Marce."

"Salvete, Stephane et Marce."

Translation:Hello, Stephanus and Marcus.

August 27, 2019

53 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkTerpstra1

Why do names change depending on the language used in this case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davidvdb

Stephanus and Marcus are being addressed in this case; you are saying "salvete" to Stephanus and Marcus. Most masculine words ending in -us (2nd declension) will get the ending -e in this situation. Names ending in -a don't change. (Salve, Livia!)

This is the vocative case, used for people being addressed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/karasu4

However, words/names that end in -ius, regularly change that to -ī in the vocative, not -e.

Vergilius (nom.) - Vergilī (voc.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gepper

Thanks for that add on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatMiFi

same like in polish ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stoopher

So are you saying that it is considered incorrect to carry the vocative form over into English?

(I believe a similar thing happens in Russian - that is, names are declined for case. Although a bit of googling suggests that the vocative case has died out in modern Russian. Even so, would native speakers of Russian only use the nominative form of names when speaking another (case-less) language?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davidvdb

Imagine that this is a text you need to translate into English:

Marcus vir est. Marcum amo. Marco rosam do. Salve, Marce!

(Marcus is a man. I love Marcus. I give Marcus a rose. Hi, Marcus!)

Marcus, Marcum, Marco, and Marce are all referring to the same person (Marcus). Using the different forms in English would only cause confusion, so no, we don't carry the vocative form over into English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Catharine499251

Except for the name Jesus. Jesu is the vocative. (Admittedly archaic)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gigach

Vocative is no longer used in Russian, except for some very rare fixed phrases or for purely meme-purposes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Origin5world5_

In Arabic we also have a vocative


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConanDoyle11

Gaelic also has a vocative, generally formed by initial aspiration, so "cara", "friend" becomes "a chara", "oh, friend!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aerologia

Since there are five categories of vocative in Arabic, I just stick with one and try not to bother with the rest :p. But since we have that vocative particle "yā" plus the fact that Arabic allows us to not pronounce case-endings, I pretty much ignore all of them(except maybe when the vocative is indefinite).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Katja-z

It happens in a lot of Slavic languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatPavi

My knowledge of Russian is rudimentary. But I'm a native speaker of another Slavic language that has 7 cases. Trying to understand your question, but it's challenging. When speaking in another case-less language names are not being used in any other form except for nominative. It would not make a lot of sense to transfer vocative, especially to transfer only that one case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nlAo17

In bulgarian language there is vocative case, while there is no one in Russian. For example in bulgarian. Nominative - господин (sir), vocative - господинЕ. In russian it is always "господин".

But some archaic forms remain, usually when one addresses to God - not "Бог мой", but "Боже мой". The same "our father" ("Отче наш", not "Отец наш") and Jesus Christ ("Иисусе Христе").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/d.keyten

Actually we use the vocative case in Russian, but not the one you mean.

There was a vocative case in Old Russian - 'старче' (vocative of 'старик' - old man, you could read it in Pushkin), 'Боже' (vocative of 'Бог' - God) and so on. Everyone understands it, but nobody uses indeed.

And there's a modern vocative case in modern Russian - 'Саш' (vocative of name 'Саша' - Sasha), 'Юль' (vocative of name 'Юля' - Yulia) etc. It's used mostly for names and it's very much informal (only for your good friends).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/d.keyten

And we use nominative for names but it's more formal.

Actually there are two forms of every name - formal form and informal short form. For example: Dima, Sasha, Masha - short for Dmitriy, Alexander, Maria. There's vocative for informal short form, but the formal form is only used with nominative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/d.keyten

And using of nominative with the short form makes it sound a bit formal, but not very much - like addressing formally to your good friend.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/298yen

Thanks for the response.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gepper

Thanks, I though it might be nominative. Too long out of school.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kate967525

Thank you, davidvdb, that one was hanging me up as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewCast404242

I feel that this was not MarkTerpstra1's question (or probably I didn't understood the answer) but I have the same one, does the name have to change in the answer? If I write or say my name in Latin do I have to change it?. I think no cuz my/any name should be writed and pronounced as it is. Am I right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
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  • 2604

I'm not sure what you mean by "written and pronounced as it is".

Latin declines nouns. Names are nouns. Names get declined.
English does not decline nouns. Names stay the same.

Marcus iter facit. [nominative]
Marcus makes a journey.

Sellam ad Marco do. [dative]
I give the chair to Marcus.

Psittacus Marcum videt. [accusative]
The parrot sees Marcus.

Salve, Marce! [vocative]
Hello, Marcus!


Here is a plain-English overview of what the cases are and how they work:
Latin cases, in English

Here are the noun and adjective declension charts:
declensions 1-3
declensions 4&5

Adjectives must agree in gender, number, and case with the nouns they modify, but they have their own declensions. Sometimes you get lucky and the adjective just happens to follow the same declension as the noun, but that is not a guarantee.

For good measure, here are the verb conjugation charts:
1st Conjugation
2nd Conjugation
3rd Conjugation
3rd i-stem Conjugation
4th Conjugation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AMONGERBRUH

That "Marcus"(in english)=Marce,Marcus


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarolinaFr555127

When to use "Salve" or "Salvete"??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
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  • 2604

It's a verb that literally means "be well" (imperative mood). So it needs to conjugate to the person. Singular is "salve" and plural is "salvete".

Salve, Marce!
Salve, Livia!
Salvete, Marce et Livia!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scian4

Interesting! The Māori greeting "kia ora" also means "be well"!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JesseGaronP

Some are saying that English doesn't have declension.

Nouns are declined according to number. Pronouns are declined according to case and nouns have possessive forms (unlike e.g. French). I think you would have to look at non-Indo-European languages to find one without any declension.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
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  • 2604

English used to have a full declension system, but we lost it a while ago and only a vestige of it remains in the pronouns*: nominative, possessive (not genitive), and oblique (lack of differentiation between different types of object). I don't think having a different form for singular and plural per se is considered a declension.

*And in the way plurals are formed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stoopher

I don't think having a different form for singular and plural per se is considered a declension.

Why wouldn't it be?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
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  • 2604

A declension is a template for how a word is formed in different cases. If you look at a chart of how any given noun is declined, it lists all of the cases in both singular and plural. Therefore number is not a matter of case or declension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QhpM9hG-TI


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stoopher

You've switched from talking about English to talking about Latin now. JesseGaronP said:

[English] Nouns are declined according to number.

You seemed to be disagreeing. If you weren't, never mind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
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  • 2604

"Puerum" is accusative.
"Pueros" is accusative.
Both are forms of the 2nd declension masculine noun "puer". The fact that one is singular and the other is plural doesn't change that.

If you mean that the singular and the plural have different forms, of course they do. But that doesn't change their role in the sentence. Inflecting to show plural doesn't automatically make it an entirely separate declension. Please re-read the entirety of what I wrote.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2604

The general definition of declension is the same across languages, and it's easier to find discussions of declension with regard to Latin. The principles remain the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stoopher

So this was a general statement?

Therefore number is not a matter of case or declension.

Try doing a web search for the phrase "declined for number".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OzXDkf

The vocative case exists in Ukrainian; the sentence sounds natural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Why "Marce" is pronounced "marke".
When does "c"+ vowel = /s/ sound?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaJsemAdam

This course uses Classical Latin pronunciation. Among other features you might not be used to, C is always pronounced /k/.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ReganCuthb

..... What is a macron?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

What is a macron?

A horizontal line, often used above a vowel to show that it is long, as with the difference between malum (evil, misfortune) versus mālum (apple).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nicholasha485446

she clearly says 'Stephane' yet 'StephanUS' is the given answer????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
Plus
  • 2604

That's a bug. The vocative case is needed here, so it must be "Salvete, Stephane et Marce." Please flag it and report it, and/or submit a bug report with screen shot to:
https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/sections/200864570-Reporting-Issues


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ricardo354663

Don't you have to pronounce "Marche"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
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  • 2604

In Classical Latin, "c" is pronounced "k".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AaronD.2

Salvéte, Stephane et Márce.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BlyatifulLearner

I just want to know how to differentiate the congregations of -e and -ete


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
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  • 2604

The infinitive is "salvere", which means "to be well". The conjugation here is the present imperative "be well".

Addressing one person (tu) it's "salve" and addressing multiple people (vos) it's "salvete".

https://www.latin-is-simple.com/en/vocabulary/verb/6232/
https://latin.cactus2000.de/showverb.en.php?verb=salvere


Here are the verb conjugation charts:
1st Conjugation
2nd Conjugation
3rd Conjugation
3rd i-stem Conjugation
4th Conjugation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefanos441240

In ancient greek they did vocative and greek spoken today retains the vocative like in this case. Stephanus counterpart in Greek is Stephanos (Στέφανος). Vocative case = stephane (Στέφανε).

Why did Italian and other modern romance languages get rid of this form?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ferret956209

Why does the male speaker pronounce 'Stefane' instead of 'step-hane' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LizmarieDiaz

I'm a natural Spanish speaker. It confused me because Marce is the shorter version of "Marcela" (in Spanish). Also, I'm not used to change the pronunciation or way of typing a name.

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