Tips and Notes needed in new Latin course
I am pumped that the new Latin course is finally out, and really glad that they're using classical pronunciation for the audio. However, there are no Tips and Notes for the skills, and I would be very confused if I hadn't already been studying Latin for a couple years. Latin contributors, please add Tips and Notes to explain the basic concepts of conjugation and declension!
EDIT: I understand this is beta, I just want to make my request known nonetheless. Thank you!
I would also add macrons to the wishlist! It does teach Latin, but the proper pronunciation is not evident at first glance without macrons.
I do, however, understand that the Latin contributors have a lot on their hands right now, but I'm willing to wait for them to turn this good course great.
They're the accents in Latin. Horizontal lines above vowels. They define whether a vowel is short or long. Without a macron, it's short. With a macron, it's long.
NOOOO!!! Please, we should forget about macrons, the Romans didn't use them, we can live without.
Romans knew which vowel quality and quantity to use because they could also speak Latin. A non-Roman beginner in Latin in modern times doesn't. If you don't know the vowel length, you can't be sure about the vowel sound or syllable stress. Then you're just guessing. All that carefully crafted meter in poetry is lost. If Latin is to be taught, it should be taught correctly and thoroughly.
With all due respect, we have access to internet, "infinite" hours of audio/video files everywhere, we can have many people that traveled the path teaching an infinite number of people by audio/video records - without any need to butcher the written language (just like they did in the past).
I don't see how any of that is relevant to the pedagogical value that macrons add to a beginner course. Adding diacritics to teach pronunciation doesn't "butcher the written language", but leaving them off leads to butchering the spoken language.
Macrons also help to see differences in cases, for example this way the nominative and ablative case of the first declension look alike, although the ablative case is accented and nominative is not. For native English speakers or speakers of any other non-flective language understanding the system of cases is extremely hard even without further obstacles such as leaving out accents. Moreover, all dictionaries use macrons so that the learners can learn the words properly and be able to recognize them in spoken language and place the stress correctly in texts. It's not butchering the language, it's simply helping learners avoid confusion
Hebrew does this for its vowels for beginners. You can just use the macrons in your notes or not. Drop them when you don't feel like using them.
Personally I prefer macrons and other such accents to be specific. I don't really mind if it's inauthentic because, it would help to teach us how to pronounce the words correctly.
It's like with Arabic. Nobody is using the wovel signs, but they are used during education. The macrons here would be nice, but when there is some voice version of pronunciation, it is probably ok without them.
There are (first draft) notes available for several skills now. These are in no way complete, but it's a start. More to come!
I've only unlocked the first few skills as yet, but the notes are excellent by DL standards. Thank you and keep up the good work!
It's pretty typical for some of the newer courses to be released into beta without notes, with them being added in later. I seriously doubt they haven't already been working on notes for some time now, it may just take awhile.
I tried making some tips and notes for the first lesson (I'm studying Latin at school)
Tips and Notes - Intro
Latin Word Order
Latin generally has quite free word order - a common word order is SOV (subject-object-verb).
e.g. ego femina sum - I am a woman
Latin, like Spanish, generally drops the subject pronoun when it’s unnecessary. So, although ‘Ego femina sum’ would be a valid translation of ‘I’m a woman’, it places emphasis on the subject, similar to saying in English ‘I, myself, am a woman’. A more natural sentence would simply be ‘femina sum’.
List of pronouns
ego - I tu - You is - He ea - She id - It nos - we vos - you ei - they (masc.) eae - they (fem.) ea - they (neut.)
Latin changes the ending of a noun depending on something called ‘case’. A noun’s case is usually determined by the position/purpose it has in the sentence. In this lesson we will see the nominative, the ablative and the locative cases.
Nominative case - subject of a sentence (also the object of a copular clause - a clause with the verb ‘to be’.)
e.g. puella est - She is a girl (puella here is in the nominative) Corinna est puella - Corinna is a girl (Corinna and puella are in the nominative)
Ablative case - this has a wide range of meanings that you will see later. The structure we see now is -preposition ‘in’ + NOUN-ablative- to be in/at (NOUN).
e.g. puella in urbe est - The girl is in the city (urbe is the ablative of urbs, a third-declension noun)
Locative case - This is a very rare case in Latin, and only a few nouns take it. One noun we see here in the locative is ‘domi’, which is the locative form of ‘domus’, meaning ‘house, home’. The structure we see now is NOUN-locative - to be in/at (NOUN).
e.g. vir domi est - The man is at home.
- To be
The Latin verb ‘esse’ means ‘to be’.
1st p. sum - I am 2nd p. es - you are 3rd p. est - she/he/it is
1st p. sumus - We are 2nd p. estis - You (plural) are 3rd p. sunt - They are
Put ‘non’ before the verb.
e.g. puella dormit - The girl sleeps puella non dormit - The girl doesn’t sleep
et - and sed - but
One little correction: In order to say "the girl is in the city," it would be "puella in urbe est." Not "puella in urbem est." The ablative singular of urbs is urbe, while urbem is the accusative singular. When the preposition "in" takes the ablative case, it is translated as "in..." but when it takes the accusative case it is translated as "into..." Ex. Puella in urbe habitat. The girl lives in the city Puella in urbem ambulat. The girl walks into the city Everything else looks spot on though
Just added them. :) They are a first draft, so let me know if there are any mistakes/typos!
I was a bit disappointed in that too. Since they didn't make any official annnouncement about Latin yet though, I am still hoping they are working on it and will add them in. I am managing okay with my knowledge of French and Spanish, but notes would really help out.
We are very busy trying to add alternative translations at the moment. The rest of the contributors have poured months into this and still haven't taken a break. I told them they deserve a rest ;)
Really appreciating all your hard work! I can see that the course is still a bit rough around the edges, but I am enjoying it so far (I was planning just to try a few skills out of curiosity and am about halfway through now... I just can't seem to stop). You guys deserve some r and r!
The other contributors do, but I wasn't able to help when they did all the heavy lifting, so I'm trying to make up for it now ;)
Thank you! I can see all of you have put a lot of work into it. The course is really enjoyable, well-paced and even amusing at times.
I agree that "tips and notes" would be a great addition eventually, but the course is already off to a great start!
Yes, take a break, guys. For a course in beta, it is already quite good. You did a really good job so far. Keep it up...:)
I am going to work on latin a little, and of course I'm not a contributor! They might add tips. It's just Latin words and roots are used in schools for the most part- you should be able to take some connection, especially if you're English speaking or honestly any Romance language speaking (I say this only because you have American English as level 16. If it's not your native language, your grammar and overall English is beautiful! If it is and you switched to another language, cool!), I guess they expect you to know something.
Geo = Earth
Obvious from the word ''geography'' is the study of the earth.
But I see where you're coming from and it's pretty much neccessary anyway!
There are indeed many Latin roots in English and most (Indo-European) languages, but geo is Ancient Greek, it comes from γῆ/gè, meaning earth. :)
I just realized I looked up ''Roman'' roots instead of Latin, you're correct ty!
You make a good point with just the root words being used. The Latin course I was taking was very intensive about memorizing conjugations and declensions, and I got a really good foundation from it. If you are learning Latin just for the vocab, then you don't need to waste your time memorizing all the rules. If you want to learn Latin so you can read ancient writings such as the Iliad in their original language, then the rules are a must.
I believe @linguallightning meant the Aeneid, the Roman version of the Iliad.
Not geo. Geo is Greek. But terra ...
Terra, terrae is the word for 'ground' in Latin. From whence we get extraterrestrial, subterranean, Terra Sol ... :)
Volgav vitsenanieff nivya kevach varatsach.
There are tips there already - it depends what you are accessing on.
I can see tips when using chrome from android. I cannot see tips when using the android app.
The tips are excellent.
Duome also collates the available tips - if you look at your "progress" pages, you can expand each skill and see both the tips, and the word list for each skill.
I am not a contributor, but I would like to give a tip. Learn Spanish and/or English with this course. Spanish and English have a lot of Latin roots in it, so Latin helps a LOT.
I'm a spanish speaker and yes, of course learning a Romance language will help you a lot since the language structure is very similar.
UPDATE: It appears there are tips and notes now, at least through the first eight lessons that I've unlocked so far.
Great job, Latin team!
If you want more knowledge, there are also many, many Latin language resources on the Web, many of them free.
If you're on a tight budget, with Latin, it would seem that even long out-of-print books from a library, a used-book sale or posted as a PDF on a website, likely still have value. (I'm not the one to ask, just an educated guess.)
I have never studied Latin before but I have always been interested to so I am happy that this course is finally here. The only thing that confuses me is the fact that v is pronounced like w xD I guess the pronunciation just changed over the years but as an English speaker it is confusing haha. This is the only course where I have to listen to the audio every time.
Without grammar, the course is not going to make a lot of sense to those who have never taken Latin.
The course is brand new. We are still adding translations. Tips will come in time.
You can infer a lot of grammar by doing the sentences, if you treat them as comprehensible input. You can also check the discussions and ask questions.
It's a work in progress. We should all be patient.
Until the course contributors are able to do their own tips and notes, there are a lot of sources on the Web.
Here are a few examples I found just when I wanted to satisfy my curiosity about something. I'm sure there are many more sources.
The 6 Cases of Latin Nouns
Latin Grammar -- from THE Ohio State University (THE charts and THE notes accessible from THE menu on THE right)
I started to try latin too, and yes is true, there is any tip about the idiom. but, I hope when the idiom will be launched everything that will be fixed.
It will be nice to do a complete Latin course, God bless the contributors!
I second that heartely. There is especially a need for a decent (clear) explanation of the Nomative, Locative, Ablative, Genative etc. etc cases, and how and what they signify in terms of word endings. It would be really really helpful for us utter newbies. At the present they just appear at random, forcing us to our best (and getting it mostly wrong or that could be just me).