"Ego sum vir, sed non femina sum."

Translation:I am a man, but I am not a woman.

August 27, 2019

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amazingcaio

This doesn't make much sense, at least in English. No one would use "but" in this context because "but" is used between clauses that express opposite meanings. In this case being a man and not being a woman are kind of complementary, not opposite, so it would make more sense to say "I am a man, so I am not a woman", as "so" gives the idea of a clause having a logical deductive conclusion.

August 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph_1980

Assuming sed has the same meaning as but - I can't see how this sentence makes sense in Latin either. Every language I've looked at the equivalent word for "but" means you are introducing a contradictory clause. So, and, therefore - there are plenty of words that would work here - but surely not "but"...

August 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blankino-182

Yes, you're right, and it doesn't make much sense in Latin either.

August 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yohanesindonesia

We need Latin grammar lessons...

August 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aephex

The use of but is questionable in my opinion. Also the audio is missing.

August 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Semeltin

Yeah, I don't get it. People have commented on the audio but I am not getting any.

September 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mariamelawady

Must the second "sum" go to the end?

August 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davidvdb

Not necessarily. :)

August 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alantrousers

This sentence seems to imply that if you are a man then you would expect to be a woman, too.

August 31, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2033

Duolingo is famous for its wacky sentences that no one would really say. It's meant to teach grammar and vocabulary, not to be a handy phrasebook.

September 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph_1980

This is different to a bit of wacky grammar though - every language has a preposition to agree and one to contradict. If this sentence is right in Latin, then "but" is not the correct translation in English, "and" is. If "sed" does mean the same as "but", then the sentence is nonsensical.

September 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2033

Grammar and semantics are two different things. Yes, "sed" means "but". The word for "and" is "et". It is entirely possible to have perfectly grammatical nonsense, for example "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."

September 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

In this case, the grammar and the meaning are linked, as "sed" is used as a logical word. If I say It's not black, but black. It's perfectly fine grammatically, but this sentence shouldn't be taught, as it makes the word "but" losing its logical opposition meaning.

And grammatically, since there's a logical problem in the sentence, it becomes wrong too, as the right use of "but" is to introduce a logical proposition, as in maths. If a student who tries to learn English says "I'm a man but I'm a chemist" it simply proves he didn't understand the use of "but" in English.

There's a biiig difference between being a sentence book (it's not, and it's a very good thing), and teaching wrongly logical link words with altered meaning deduced from the sentence. Duolingo is supposed to teach us (a bit) the natural way, (a bit) the way children would learn to talk. A children will deduce the meaning of the word "but" from logical sentences. "I'm a human but I'm a woman" is as much wrong than this sentence, and would teach you another meaning for the word "but". I'm confident they'll fix it since this course is still in beta.

September 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

I think this sentence will be removed, as it's confusing about the meaning of "sed".

September 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Or it may also implies that you "can" be a woman too.

September 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gsp732649

ego sum vir sed non sum agrícola (aut miles, nauta, pater, etc). como piensan?

September 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

My first thought was that this was in response to a Macbeth-style cryptic divination, something along the lines of "To defeat the monster, you have to be a man and you have to be a woman. Are you those things?"

September 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

But what would be the answer to the enigma in this case?

September 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dulcinella

‘Sed’ has the same meaning as ‘but’, so it does not really need to be there. Also, why put the ‘sum’ once at the end and once in the middle. It belongs at the end. The exception to this rule in normal sentences are not really important on a basic level.

August 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

Latin sentences did not always have verbs at the end. SOV was the most common, but SVO was also very common. We want students to see the word order is flexible.

August 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom729640

Yes that's fine, but don't mark SOV sentences as wrong.

September 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

The course is in Beta and we are trying to add the alternative translations. Please use the Report Button.

September 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dulcinella

Ok, a solution would be to use the most common order as a rule in your examples and sometimes the less usual.

August 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

I understand, but I read some purists in Latin considers some word orders in some sentences as "dog Latin". Is it right? In this case, I think the highest standard should be taught, and letting the alternative to be accepted, but explaining the difference in the meaning. As in French, when you change the place for a word, it introduces subtle meaning variations. It's impossible to change a word place in French and to have exactly the same meaning. I guess it's the same in Latin. Language subtilities, that makes the mastering and the beauty of the language.

September 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Noisytoot

"sed" means "but" in both Latin and Esperanto.

September 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Wouldn't "ergo" better than "sed" here?

September 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/triklogl

What kind of linguists are those? Teaching a language is not at all computing machines (and human beings happen not to be machines, in case some forgot). So sentences with sense and content are much more likely to be understood and kept in mind!

September 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hafizen

Perhaps if the translation was I’m human, but I’m not a woman. That works but only if vir also means human.

September 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom729640

I think that 'homo' would normally be used for 'human', rather than 'vir'.

September 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

No, vir is specically a male. Like in "virile".

September 10, 2019
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