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  5. "Hello, Marcus and Livia."

"Hello, Marcus and Livia."

Translation:Salvete, Marce et Livia.

August 27, 2019

112 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/que_lastima

Does anyone know why Marcus changes ending and not Livia?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

Marcus is second declension (-us) and Livia is first declension and here they are in the vocative singular form. Second declension (-us) nouns take -e ending for the vocative case, while first declension uses the -a which matches the nominative case. If I remember correctly, only the second declension (-us) nouns take a vocative form that is different than the nominative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardBro462679

Why is Marcus second declension, and Livia first?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J.C.M.H.

Because Marcus ends in -us in the nominative, and in -i in the genitive, and Livia ends in -a in the nominative, and in in the genitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardBro462679

Thanks. But quite hard to get one's head around, particularly as the course hasn't covered this stuff. There's a lot here for a newbie; not least, peoples' names and declensions. Is this suitable so early?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardBro462679

I'd like to reply to the comment below, but it won't let me.

There's no lightbulb icon in the android Duolingo app. Back to the browser!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CannedMan

It is covered. Press the lightbulb icon to read the relevant grammar, vocabulary and other information for the level you are trying.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Machiel35307

true this should have been in the tips


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatildeChi11

Well i understand that the grammar plays an important role, but they still haven't really explained any of this and it is very hard to guess when you don't know why it changes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

In an "inflected" language ( = where the ENDING of a word conveys meaning), you can't really learn vocabulary without simultaneously learning the grammar.

I guess they've shown you 3 different forms of the name "Marcus" by now:

Marcus = HE, Marcus (as subject of a verb, when he IS or DOES something), the nominative

Marcum = HIM, Marcus (as direct object of a verb, "we see Marcus", or as object of certain prepositions, "we run towards Marcus"), the accusative

Marce = Hey, YOU (Marcus!), the vocative, only used when addressing him directly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SGuthrie0

Duo doesn't do a lot of explanation. Perhaps you can find info on-line.

I do that for my Spanish.

Plus, these discussion pages have so far answered my Latin questions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/matthew809366

i found only the lightbulb help section on my desktop or computer browser. nothing on the app:(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyanSmith179546

This didn't happen in another question with the same name, it only accepted Marcus in the Latin answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

What was the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CeeCeeSong

they haven't even mentioned anything about declensions to us! This is only the second lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

Do you have access to the notes? Declensions are mentioned in the notes for the first lesson as far as I can tell.

You can find them all here if you want to read through them: https://duome.eu/tips/en/la


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LexiBlakeley

Thank you! This Will help immensely. I almost exclusively use my phone for duolingo. Do they have one for all of the language courses?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

As far as I know they have one page for each language's notes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ama261088

Moopish....your answer may as well be in Greek. Lol.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Look around on this page, and you'll see lots of explanations (of the same phenomena--the vocative, and the singular versus plural imperatives--over and over).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MayaHamilt5

When the ending of the name is -us it changes to an -e, if you went onto Legonium, there is a whole lesson, I think it is lesson six or maybe five?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aaronhinsi

Why is "Salvete" right but "Salve" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

Salvete is the plural form and you are addressing two people, Marcus and Livia. You would use salve when addressing one person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MayaHamilt5

Salve is for when saying hi to only one person, and salvete is for when you are addressing multiple people. You'd say Salve to Marcus, but salvete when saying hello to Marcus and Livia


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laetitia806793

Why do yo change marcus for marce


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

When directly addressing someone or something we make use of the vocative case. This is done here since we are saying 'hello' directly to Marcus and Livia. The reason Marcus changes to Marce is because it is second declension and the nominative singular ends in -us. With these types of nouns the vocative singular ending is -e.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DebF26
  • 1037

So in Latin, someone's NAME changes? This will take some getting used to!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J.C.M.H.

Yes; Latin is a declinable language; the name of a person (that is a noun) can change according to the case.

Declension of Marcus (second declension, masculine):

Case Name
Nominative Marcus
Genitive Marci
Dative Marco
Accusative Marcum
Ablative Marco
Vocative Marce

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/N1755L

Hehe... in a way, sure, it can be OH. MY. GOD., but then again, I'd say don't worry about it, so you'll get some people's names wrong here and there for a bit, or for a while maybe, but... as you keep at these lessons, and as Latin becomes more and more easy and instinctive to you, the mind is now freed to focus, or even subconsciously deal with all of this declensions thing-a-ma-jiggy, and will eventually piece it all together, and maybe even faster than you would have guessed if later on you read up a bit about declensions.

Exposure and/or immersion is the key... time, basically.

No fret :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahWinde1

When I learnt Latin at school (some time ago now) nouns were declined differently, i.e. Nominative, Accusative, Genitive, Dative, Ablative, Vocative.

Is this a change in how things are done?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

The order doesn't really matter. The order given above (the order I am most used to) and the order you gave both seem to be fairly common.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Were you at school in the UK? So far as I know, the US (and Canada?) follow the German pattern (nom/GEN/dat/acc/abl (voc)), whereas the UK has the accusative second, as you say. Same endings but different listing in the chart!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Notice that it's not only -us NOUNS (of the 2nd decl; there are also -us nouns of the 4th decl., and some -us neuters of the 3rd decl., to which this rule does not apply) that switch the ending to -e in the vocative case; but also the -us adjectives. Salvē, Rōmāne! (Hello, Roman male person!) Minimē, sceleste! (No way, you wretch!--from scelestus, a, um, adj., wicked, evil).

For whatever reason, the noun deus (god) keeps that form (deus) in the vocative. (Probably for euphony.)

It must be mentioned that there are -ius nouns of the 2nd declension, like the family name Iūlius; in the vocative, -ius is replaced by -ī: Ō Iūlī , "O Julius".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andres.Campe

Do all names declinate to a vocative even if they are post Roman, foreign or current names? I guess Livia is also in vocative even though it doesn't change its form from the nominative one.

Can you provide a link to more info on Latin names?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J.C.M.H.

Yes, Livia is vocative too, because it is a feminine noun of the first declension:

Case Noun
Nominative Livia
Genitive Liviæ
Dative Liviæ
Accusative Liviam
Ablative Liviā
Vocative Livia

An easy link to the Latin declension:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_declension

The first declension is explained in the section First declension (a stems).

However, I recommend you read a decent Latin grammar if you want go deeper.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andres.Campe

Multas gratias tibi ago!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahWinde1

Thank you for replying to my query about the order of noun declension.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiroCalln

Cómo se sabe cuándo poner Marcus o Marce. Parece que la opción correcta es aleatoria


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

If "Marcus" = "HE" (is doing or being something), use Marcus .

If "Marcus" = "YOU" (talking to Marcus), use Marce .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stientje15

This is a really good answer I understand. LOL. Thank you Suzanne!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I'm so glad to hear it; thank you for letting me know!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_Mixture

Is there any reason for it to sometimes accept Marcus instead of Marce and other times it doesn't?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Marcus is the subject-form of the name, when Marcus IS something (Marcus est fessus, "Marcus is tired") or DOES something (Marcus ad forum it, "Marcus goes to the forum"). Marce is the direct-address form of the name, when someone talks to Marcus directly: "Hey, Marcus, where are you going? What are you doing? Where is Livia?", etc. We have nothing like it (changing the name, for direct address) in English, but you can think of it as the "Hey, YOU!" form of his name.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/o4tuna

The message that gets displayed when you make a certain mistake contains an error.

I erroneously entered "Salve, Marce et Livia". The message displayed in response to this error said the answer should be "Avete, Marce et Livia".

"Avete" isn't right--it should be "Salvete".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Interesting: Avē/Avēte are basically synonymous with Salvē/Salvēte.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexey914898

Yes, but it's more formal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChubbyDragon

I had this same issue! When I entered "Salve, Marcus et Livia," it corrected me with "Salvete, Marce et Livia." Obviously I used the wrong form of Marcus there. However, when I entered what it had told me was the correct sentence, it considered it wrong and corrected me with "Avete, Marce et Livia," which was considered incorrect when I answered with that thereafter. Finally, it decided to accept "Salvete, Marce et Livia."

Is there a linguistic reason for this debacle that I am simply not understanding, or should this be reported as a bug?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J.C.M.H.

That is because there are two persons, Marcus and Livia. Salve and ave are only for one person; they are singular imperatives; instead, salvete and avete are plural imperatives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

Inserting a completely different correct word is something Duolingo does in some languages when we make a mistake and it wants to show us the/a correct answer. Why this is done, or happens, who knows?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Im-Coldy_Froze

Why does "et" (and) change into "ac" ??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Not sure what you mean, about 'changing into...'

But there is more than one word for "and" in Latin. There is atque , "and (also)", which can be shortened to ac . Notice that the enclitic -que by itself is also a word that means "and."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Petrus-Iustitiae

I shouldn't have to use a comma for a correct answer! Punctuation didn't matter elsewhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Petrus-Iustitiae

A comma shouldn't be a requirement for a correct answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/That_red_herring

why does "salve" change into "salvete" sometimes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Salvē! means "Be well!" or "Greetings!" addressed to one person; when you're talking to more than one, you add the plural ending -te: Salvēte!

(Formally, these words are commands or imperatives. In Latin, they are always distinguishable by singular vs. plural endings.

"Go away, Marcus!" would be, "Abī, Marce!"; whereas "Go away, Marcus and Livia!" would be "Abīte, Marce et Līvia!"

Or, to think of some verbs we've learned in Duolingo: "Wash me!" (sing) = Mē lavā! "Wash me!" (plur) = Mē lavāte!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerald90847

Will we learn about cases and endings?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerald90847

I don't understand yet hhy the ending changes to Marce.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

There are comments on this comment page that attempt to explain it. I'd be happy to add to my own comments, if I understood what it is that you still don't get, about the shift from "Marcus" = HE (talking about him) to "Hey, Marcus" = YOU (talking to him).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LorencitaEE

I typed Marcus for Marcus and it said i shpuld have typed Marce?? The sentence itself says Marcus


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

(It says "Marcus" in English, but we don't change people's names when we talk to them.

However, Latin does change a name that ends in -us like Marcus, when we talk to that person: it's changed to Marce.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElanaDewey

Please explain when one uses Marce instead of Marcus again? Thank you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Is Marcus "HE" in the sentence? Use Marcus (= nominative case, for subject of the verb. "Marcus sees the drunk parrot": Marcus psittacum ēbrium videt .)

Is Marcus "YOU" in the sentence? Use Marce ( = vocative case, for the person directly addressed. "Where are you coming from, Marcus?" Unde, Marce, venīs?)

We don't have ending-changing vocatives in English, but we certainly can understand when Marcus is being spoken to , and called (in effect) "you," and so we'll use Marce in Latin under those circumstances.


[deactivated user]

    Why is marcus and marce are the same?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChessPro15

    This might be a really stupid question, but why is it 'Salvete' instead of 'Salve'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

    Salvete is the plural form and you are addressing two people, Marcus and Livia. You would use salve when addressing one person.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RimzimAcha

    There was no salvete in this...so i had to click salve andddd it came as wroy


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/night_star237

    Why does Marcus' name change and not Livia's. I'm quite confused


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    If you scroll around on this page, I think you'll find several attempts to answer this question.

    Here goes another: The Romans had a form of each noun (and a name is also a noun!) used for "direct address," or talking directly to a person. I call it the "Hey, YOU!" form, in my Latin classes.

    So, there's a noun (TEACHER) that, in Latin, has different forms: nominative (magister), when the teacher does something (SUBJECT of verb: The teacher explains everything badly .); accusative (magistrum), when someone affects the teacher (DIRECT OBJECT of verb: They blame the teacher .); genitive (magistrī), when the teacher possesses something (It's the job of the teacher to explain things well .); and so forth. One such use of "teacher" is to speak to him ("direct address"): _ Hey, teacher ! I need help! . This use is called the VOCATIVE form of the noun. For this noun, magister, the vocative is identical to the nominative. For most nouns in Latin, the vocative and nominative are identical in appearance (obviously different in use). This explains why the name _Livia doesn't change, between nominative and vocative. All plural nouns are identical in nominative and vocative, too. The ONLY nouns that change, between nominative and vocative, are: 2nd declension nouns that end in -us, like Marcus: vocative Marce; 2nd dec. nouns that end in -ius, like Iūlius: vocative Iūlī.

    (Most Latin methods try to introduce the extremely common change of nomin. in -us to vocative in -e very early on; that's why Duo has the sentences with vocative Marce.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JAN860814

    Marcus equal Marce??


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

    We have to use the form Marce since we are directly addressing Marcus (and Livia). This is called the vocative case which is normally the same as nominative, as seen with Livia.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Debbie697250

    Why in some cases is marcus accepted and in others marce is required?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

    Marcus is the nominative case and is used when Marcus is doing an action (he is the subject of the sentence).

    Marce is the vocative case and is used when Marcus is being directly addressed by the speaker (like "Hey Marcus!").


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Conor697532

    Marcus, Stephanus, Brutus, all transformed to an -e ending. Are there only male names that are affected this way, or are there any -us female names? -us is only a male name ending, is that correct?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    Personal names that end in -us (or -ius) are all masculine, yes.

    There are also masculine names that don't end in -us or -ius. Kaesō is an unusual masculine personal (given) name, or praenōmen . Many of the surnames (cognōmina) are either 1st declension (like Seneca or Cinna) or 3rd declension (Cicerō , Caesar , Mūs ).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheBroadwayBoy

    Did anyone else get it wrong merely because they didn't put "Marce" instead of Marcus?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AVAX3M
    • 1186

    Everyone does.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    What does "merely"mean, in this context? It's incorrect to write "Marcus" when "Marce" is grammatically required.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/N1755L

    Yep, I did, no biggie, part of the learning curve... now you come down to the comments and you learn.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paulbarret20

    I understand what you say about salvage

    I understand what you say about salvete being plural but I don't understand about Marcus


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paulbarret20

    I understand what you say about salvete but I don't understand about Marcus


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

    Are you asking why it becomes Marce?

    This is because we have to use the vocative case when we are directly taking to someone. The vocative case is usually just the nominative except for second declension nouns that have a -us ending in the nominative (like Marcus). These get the ending -e in the vocative.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    What is it, that you don't understand about Marcus?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wendybiscuit

    Anothwr answer: Salvete, Marce Liviaque. Marcus and Livia beinf vocative and Que being and.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MoonwatchertheNW

    quick pronounciation question : if my name was, for example, Selviara (i couldn't think of a good name so i made one up) and my original language was english and all that stuff, would it still be pronounced with the "W" sound in latin even though that would literally be an incorrect pronunciation of "my name"? or would it be pronounced with the v sound like it's supposed to be even though it's being spoken in latin?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Savannah551213

    The use of "salvete" is a little confusing, as that is the response to an initial greeting, "salve."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

    What are you trying to say/ask?

    Salve is for one person, salvete for multiple people.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Im-Coldy_Froze

    Salve is saying hello to ONLY ONE person in Latin and Salvete is saying hello to MORE THAN ONE PERSON in Latin.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sanjay75888

    What is declension ? I have never before come across such a word! Why marcus is not accepted. How to go forward without answering this question ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    Declension means "set of nouns following the same pattern of endings."

    For example, there is a set of nouns (a declension) like puella , where the singular subject-form (or "nominative") ends in -a, the plural subject-form (for "they, the girls") would end in -ae (puellae), the singular direct-object form (or "accusative") ends in -am.

    Another declension is the type of noun like Marcus : nominative singular ends in -us, nominative plural ends in -ī, accusative singular ends in -um, and so forth.

    There are a total of five declensions for nouns, and three for adjectives, in Latin.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sanjay75888

    Why marcus is not accepted? How can i move forward ? Please help.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    I think if you read the notes on this very page, you will find many explanations for Marce , given over and over. (When you're talking to him, you can't call him Marcus .)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jason84889

    why doesn't marcus work ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    Rule for nouns that end in -us (of the 2nd declension): change ending to -e when TALKING TO the person. Marcus: Marce. (Think of "Marcus" as HE, Marcus; think of "Marce" as "Hey, MARCUS!")


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DiamondGir631478

    Difference between Salvete and Salve?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    Salvēte! is a plural form, and Salvē! is the corresponding singular. Both mean "Hello" or "Greetings!"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grunaugen777

    Whats the difference between 'salve' and 'salvete'


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

    Salve to one person. Salvete to multiple people.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Muyil

    Where's the lightbulb?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/giogio53782

    Nobody askink why it says salvete


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

    Singular vs plural form. If that was what you meant, this has been asked.

    salve is used when greeting one person Salve, Marce!

    salvete when greeting more than one person, as seen here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nuninhow

    What? Salvete or salve?????


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaCG276850

    Why "salve " is wrong?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

    The 'hello' is directed at two people so we have to use the plural form salvete. Salve can only be used when saying hello to one person.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BlueCarno

    Why is salve wrong?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    Are you speaking to one person, or to two?

    Salvē is "hello" or "greetings" to one person; Salvēte is used for more than one person. (Formally, it's a command or imperative verb form; and comes in both singular and plural forms.)

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