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- "Hello, Marcus and Livia."
"Hello, Marcus and Livia."
Translation:Salvete, Marce et Livia.
112 Comments
917
Marcus is second declension (-us) and Livia is first declension and here they are in the vocative singular form. Second declension (-us) nouns take -e ending for the vocative case, while first declension uses the -a which matches the nominative case. If I remember correctly, only the second declension (-us) nouns take a vocative form that is different than the nominative.
- 680
Because Marcus ends in -us in the nominative, and in -i in the genitive, and Livia ends in -a in the nominative, and in -æ in the genitive.
Thanks. But quite hard to get one's head around, particularly as the course hasn't covered this stuff. There's a lot here for a newbie; not least, peoples' names and declensions. Is this suitable so early?
I'd like to reply to the comment below, but it won't let me.
There's no lightbulb icon in the android Duolingo app. Back to the browser!
It is covered. Press the lightbulb icon to read the relevant grammar, vocabulary and other information for the level you are trying.
Well i understand that the grammar plays an important role, but they still haven't really explained any of this and it is very hard to guess when you don't know why it changes.
In an "inflected" language ( = where the ENDING of a word conveys meaning), you can't really learn vocabulary without simultaneously learning the grammar.
I guess they've shown you 3 different forms of the name "Marcus" by now:
Marcus = HE, Marcus (as subject of a verb, when he IS or DOES something), the nominative
Marcum = HIM, Marcus (as direct object of a verb, "we see Marcus", or as object of certain prepositions, "we run towards Marcus"), the accusative
Marce = Hey, YOU (Marcus!), the vocative, only used when addressing him directly.
Duo doesn't do a lot of explanation. Perhaps you can find info on-line.
I do that for my Spanish.
Plus, these discussion pages have so far answered my Latin questions.
i found only the lightbulb help section on my desktop or computer browser. nothing on the app:(
This didn't happen in another question with the same name, it only accepted Marcus in the Latin answer.
they haven't even mentioned anything about declensions to us! This is only the second lesson.
- 917
Do you have access to the notes? Declensions are mentioned in the notes for the first lesson as far as I can tell.
You can find them all here if you want to read through them: https://duome.eu/tips/en/la
Thank you! This Will help immensely. I almost exclusively use my phone for duolingo. Do they have one for all of the language courses?
Look around on this page, and you'll see lots of explanations (of the same phenomena--the vocative, and the singular versus plural imperatives--over and over).
When the ending of the name is -us it changes to an -e, if you went onto Legonium, there is a whole lesson, I think it is lesson six or maybe five?
- 917
Salvete is the plural form and you are addressing two people, Marcus and Livia. You would use salve when addressing one person.
Salve is for when saying hi to only one person, and salvete is for when you are addressing multiple people. You'd say Salve to Marcus, but salvete when saying hello to Marcus and Livia
- 917
When directly addressing someone or something we make use of the vocative case. This is done here since we are saying 'hello' directly to Marcus and Livia. The reason Marcus changes to Marce is because it is second declension and the nominative singular ends in -us. With these types of nouns the vocative singular ending is -e.
- 680
Yes; Latin is a declinable language; the name of a person (that is a noun) can change according to the case.
Declension of Marcus (second declension, masculine):
| Case | Name |
|---|---|
| Nominative | Marcus |
| Genitive | Marci |
| Dative | Marco |
| Accusative | Marcum |
| Ablative | Marco |
| Vocative | Marce |
Hehe... in a way, sure, it can be OH. MY. GOD., but then again, I'd say don't worry about it, so you'll get some people's names wrong here and there for a bit, or for a while maybe, but... as you keep at these lessons, and as Latin becomes more and more easy and instinctive to you, the mind is now freed to focus, or even subconsciously deal with all of this declensions thing-a-ma-jiggy, and will eventually piece it all together, and maybe even faster than you would have guessed if later on you read up a bit about declensions.
Exposure and/or immersion is the key... time, basically.
No fret :-)
When I learnt Latin at school (some time ago now) nouns were declined differently, i.e. Nominative, Accusative, Genitive, Dative, Ablative, Vocative.
Is this a change in how things are done?
- 917
The order doesn't really matter. The order given above (the order I am most used to) and the order you gave both seem to be fairly common.
Were you at school in the UK? So far as I know, the US (and Canada?) follow the German pattern (nom/GEN/dat/acc/abl (voc)), whereas the UK has the accusative second, as you say. Same endings but different listing in the chart!
Notice that it's not only -us NOUNS (of the 2nd decl; there are also -us nouns of the 4th decl., and some -us neuters of the 3rd decl., to which this rule does not apply) that switch the ending to -e in the vocative case; but also the -us adjectives. Salvē, Rōmāne! (Hello, Roman male person!) Minimē, sceleste! (No way, you wretch!--from scelestus, a, um, adj., wicked, evil).
For whatever reason, the noun deus (god) keeps that form (deus) in the vocative. (Probably for euphony.)
It must be mentioned that there are -ius nouns of the 2nd declension, like the family name Iūlius; in the vocative, -ius is replaced by -ī: Ō Iūlī , "O Julius".
- 692
Do all names declinate to a vocative even if they are post Roman, foreign or current names? I guess Livia is also in vocative even though it doesn't change its form from the nominative one.
Can you provide a link to more info on Latin names?
- 680
Yes, Livia is vocative too, because it is a feminine noun of the first declension:
| Case | Noun |
|---|---|
| Nominative | Livia |
| Genitive | Liviæ |
| Dative | Liviæ |
| Accusative | Liviam |
| Ablative | Liviā |
| Vocative | Livia |
An easy link to the Latin declension:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_declension
The first declension is explained in the section First declension (a stems).
However, I recommend you read a decent Latin grammar if you want go deeper.
Cómo se sabe cuándo poner Marcus o Marce. Parece que la opción correcta es aleatoria
If "Marcus" = "HE" (is doing or being something), use Marcus .
If "Marcus" = "YOU" (talking to Marcus), use Marce .
Is there any reason for it to sometimes accept Marcus instead of Marce and other times it doesn't?
Marcus is the subject-form of the name, when Marcus IS something (Marcus est fessus, "Marcus is tired") or DOES something (Marcus ad forum it, "Marcus goes to the forum"). Marce is the direct-address form of the name, when someone talks to Marcus directly: "Hey, Marcus, where are you going? What are you doing? Where is Livia?", etc. We have nothing like it (changing the name, for direct address) in English, but you can think of it as the "Hey, YOU!" form of his name.
The message that gets displayed when you make a certain mistake contains an error.
I erroneously entered "Salve, Marce et Livia". The message displayed in response to this error said the answer should be "Avete, Marce et Livia".
"Avete" isn't right--it should be "Salvete".
I had this same issue! When I entered "Salve, Marcus et Livia," it corrected me with "Salvete, Marce et Livia." Obviously I used the wrong form of Marcus there. However, when I entered what it had told me was the correct sentence, it considered it wrong and corrected me with "Avete, Marce et Livia," which was considered incorrect when I answered with that thereafter. Finally, it decided to accept "Salvete, Marce et Livia."
Is there a linguistic reason for this debacle that I am simply not understanding, or should this be reported as a bug?
- 680
That is because there are two persons, Marcus and Livia. Salve and ave are only for one person; they are singular imperatives; instead, salvete and avete are plural imperatives.
- 659
Inserting a completely different correct word is something Duolingo does in some languages when we make a mistake and it wants to show us the/a correct answer. Why this is done, or happens, who knows?
Not sure what you mean, about 'changing into...'
But there is more than one word for "and" in Latin. There is atque , "and (also)", which can be shortened to ac . Notice that the enclitic -que by itself is also a word that means "and."
I shouldn't have to use a comma for a correct answer! Punctuation didn't matter elsewhere.
Salvē! means "Be well!" or "Greetings!" addressed to one person; when you're talking to more than one, you add the plural ending -te: Salvēte!
(Formally, these words are commands or imperatives. In Latin, they are always distinguishable by singular vs. plural endings.
"Go away, Marcus!" would be, "Abī, Marce!"; whereas "Go away, Marcus and Livia!" would be "Abīte, Marce et Līvia!"
Or, to think of some verbs we've learned in Duolingo: "Wash me!" (sing) = Mē lavā! "Wash me!" (plur) = Mē lavāte!
There are comments on this comment page that attempt to explain it. I'd be happy to add to my own comments, if I understood what it is that you still don't get, about the shift from "Marcus" = HE (talking about him) to "Hey, Marcus" = YOU (talking to him).
- 644
I typed Marcus for Marcus and it said i shpuld have typed Marce?? The sentence itself says Marcus
(It says "Marcus" in English, but we don't change people's names when we talk to them.
However, Latin does change a name that ends in -us like Marcus, when we talk to that person: it's changed to Marce.)
Is Marcus "HE" in the sentence? Use Marcus (= nominative case, for subject of the verb. "Marcus sees the drunk parrot": Marcus psittacum ēbrium videt .)
Is Marcus "YOU" in the sentence? Use Marce ( = vocative case, for the person directly addressed. "Where are you coming from, Marcus?" Unde, Marce, venīs?)
We don't have ending-changing vocatives in English, but we certainly can understand when Marcus is being spoken to , and called (in effect) "you," and so we'll use Marce in Latin under those circumstances.
This might be a really stupid question, but why is it 'Salvete' instead of 'Salve'?
- 917
Salvete is the plural form and you are addressing two people, Marcus and Livia. You would use salve when addressing one person.
There was no salvete in this...so i had to click salve andddd it came as wroy
If you scroll around on this page, I think you'll find several attempts to answer this question.
Here goes another: The Romans had a form of each noun (and a name is also a noun!) used for "direct address," or talking directly to a person. I call it the "Hey, YOU!" form, in my Latin classes.
So, there's a noun (TEACHER) that, in Latin, has different forms: nominative (magister), when the teacher does something (SUBJECT of verb: The teacher explains everything badly .); accusative (magistrum), when someone affects the teacher (DIRECT OBJECT of verb: They blame the teacher .); genitive (magistrī), when the teacher possesses something (It's the job of the teacher to explain things well .); and so forth. One such use of "teacher" is to speak to him ("direct address"): _ Hey, teacher ! I need help! . This use is called the VOCATIVE form of the noun. For this noun, magister, the vocative is identical to the nominative. For most nouns in Latin, the vocative and nominative are identical in appearance (obviously different in use). This explains why the name _Livia doesn't change, between nominative and vocative. All plural nouns are identical in nominative and vocative, too. The ONLY nouns that change, between nominative and vocative, are: 2nd declension nouns that end in -us, like Marcus: vocative Marce; 2nd dec. nouns that end in -ius, like Iūlius: vocative Iūlī.
(Most Latin methods try to introduce the extremely common change of nomin. in -us to vocative in -e very early on; that's why Duo has the sentences with vocative Marce.)
- 917
We have to use the form Marce since we are directly addressing Marcus (and Livia). This is called the vocative case which is normally the same as nominative, as seen with Livia.
Why in some cases is marcus accepted and in others marce is required?
- 917
Marcus is the nominative case and is used when Marcus is doing an action (he is the subject of the sentence).
Marce is the vocative case and is used when Marcus is being directly addressed by the speaker (like "Hey Marcus!").
- 343
Marcus, Stephanus, Brutus, all transformed to an -e ending. Are there only male names that are affected this way, or are there any -us female names? -us is only a male name ending, is that correct?
Personal names that end in -us (or -ius) are all masculine, yes.
There are also masculine names that don't end in -us or -ius. Kaesō is an unusual masculine personal (given) name, or praenōmen . Many of the surnames (cognōmina) are either 1st declension (like Seneca or Cinna) or 3rd declension (Cicerō , Caesar , Mūs ).
Did anyone else get it wrong merely because they didn't put "Marce" instead of Marcus?
What does "merely"mean, in this context? It's incorrect to write "Marcus" when "Marce" is grammatically required.
Yep, I did, no biggie, part of the learning curve... now you come down to the comments and you learn.
- 331
I understand what you say about salvage
I understand what you say about salvete being plural but I don't understand about Marcus
- 917
Are you asking why it becomes Marce?
This is because we have to use the vocative case when we are directly taking to someone. The vocative case is usually just the nominative except for second declension nouns that have a -us ending in the nominative (like Marcus). These get the ending -e in the vocative.
Anothwr answer: Salvete, Marce Liviaque. Marcus and Livia beinf vocative and Que being and.
quick pronounciation question : if my name was, for example, Selviara (i couldn't think of a good name so i made one up) and my original language was english and all that stuff, would it still be pronounced with the "W" sound in latin even though that would literally be an incorrect pronunciation of "my name"? or would it be pronounced with the v sound like it's supposed to be even though it's being spoken in latin?
The use of "salvete" is a little confusing, as that is the response to an initial greeting, "salve."
Salve is saying hello to ONLY ONE person in Latin and Salvete is saying hello to MORE THAN ONE PERSON in Latin.
- 246
What is declension ? I have never before come across such a word! Why marcus is not accepted. How to go forward without answering this question ?
Declension means "set of nouns following the same pattern of endings."
For example, there is a set of nouns (a declension) like puella , where the singular subject-form (or "nominative") ends in -a, the plural subject-form (for "they, the girls") would end in -ae (puellae), the singular direct-object form (or "accusative") ends in -am.
Another declension is the type of noun like Marcus : nominative singular ends in -us, nominative plural ends in -ī, accusative singular ends in -um, and so forth.
There are a total of five declensions for nouns, and three for adjectives, in Latin.
I think if you read the notes on this very page, you will find many explanations for Marce , given over and over. (When you're talking to him, you can't call him Marcus .)
Rule for nouns that end in -us (of the 2nd declension): change ending to -e when TALKING TO the person. Marcus: Marce. (Think of "Marcus" as HE, Marcus; think of "Marce" as "Hey, MARCUS!")
Salvēte! is a plural form, and Salvē! is the corresponding singular. Both mean "Hello" or "Greetings!"
- 917
Singular vs plural form. If that was what you meant, this has been asked.
salve is used when greeting one person Salve, Marce!
salvete when greeting more than one person, as seen here.
- 917
The 'hello' is directed at two people so we have to use the plural form salvete. Salve can only be used when saying hello to one person.
Are you speaking to one person, or to two?
Salvē is "hello" or "greetings" to one person; Salvēte is used for more than one person. (Formally, it's a command or imperative verb form; and comes in both singular and plural forms.)
