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- "You study Latin."
"You study Latin."
Translation:Tu linguae Latinae studes.
65 Comments
Why "linguae latinae" and not "linguam latinam"? Shouldn't it be accusative?
The literal meaning of "studes" is "you are diligent (in)..." or "you direct your attention (to)..." For this reason, it is used with the dative case.
This should probably be in a note in the grammar section. I know some Latin already, so I was confused about this as well because I didn't know this was the meaning of studere, but your explanation makes sense. But again, it should probably be mentioned if some verb requires a case other than the accusative, which some verbs do.
It should also be made clear that it's a dative and not a genitive, since those two cases are the same in the first declension singular.
So literally it means, "You (tu) devote yourself to (studes) Latin (Latinae +(Linguae))?
Tu being redundant because it's already implied in the 2nd person verb stud[es].
Tu is indeed redundant, but it may still be used to emphasize "you". Generally speaking, if you're trying to emphasize the "I", "You", or "They", you'll include that seemingly redundant pronoun.
The tu is unnecessary, personal pronouns are only used to stress their meaning, the are not oblihatory.
The sentence should be accepted without the tu. Including pronouns in early lessons help to ease students into the language.
There is no mention of the dative case in the grammar section of chapter "School"! This is a rather serious issue in my humble opinion.
That's why there are notes. We are rolling them out as fast as we can.
I really appreciate the notes, but the notes of this lesson deal with the accusative.
It might be better to move the dative sentences to a different skill to avoid confusion (especially for people who are completely new to Latin, unlike me). I can see why you want to introduce sentences like "I'm studying Latin" at this point of the course, but while I could imagine just learning that sentence as a phrase at this point without understanding why the noun needs to be in that form, I'd definitely leave the sentences with "litteris studet" for a later time in the course.
I agree. The lessons could stick to read, speak, write since these don't require a dative object.
I'm thankful for the notes, and just grateful to have the Latin course which I've been waiting on (as you might see) for a LONG time.
Not sure I follow; you mean grammar notes? Are they written after exercises are written? Should I wait for proper notes before I get on with the course? I keep getting wrong answers on declensions that are not part of the unit I'm on.
Tap the lightbulb icon.
https://i.imgur.com/jISoBEQ.png
It could also be the word TIPS now.
https://i.imgur.com/7gY0fgK.jpg
You must say "linguae latinae" because "latinae" all by itself does not suggest the language.
I disagree a bit.
In Indonesian, you need to add "Bahasa" meaning language, it gives "Bahasa Indonesia", meaning "Indonesian (language).
With Latin, it's common to say "Lingua latina", but, on the other hand, the language is called "latina" on Wikipedia.(latina.wikipedia...) when Indonesian is called "Bahasa Indonesia".
From Stackexchange:
The language names are adjectives in Latin. From Hispanicus [Spanish] you get lingua Hispanica and the adverb Hispanice ["Spanishly"]."
Lingua Latina is what the Romans called their language.
If you ever see Latina by itself to refer to language, lingua is naturally implied.
However, that typically wasn't the way they referred to speaking the language. Instead the adverbial form was preferred: Latine loqui "to speak Latin". This is done not just with Latin, but all sorts of languages."
If I get this comment, it was uncommon, but possible.
I've found "latina" with studere and discere in many course books, though. So it seems there are different opinions about this.
Anyway, the post says we can use "Latine" like "hispanice" to talk about Latin. I don't know whether it's possible to use this "latine" adverb with studere/discere.
Edit: It's possible: "Latine studere tacitus non possum.", found, and other occurrences in several XIX.c Latin courses books.
But I don't understand this one: https://sites.google.com/a/florencek12.org/fhsclassics/cur-latinam-studere-why-study-latin
I’m checking this out as an option for my students, and I believe not sticking to the accusative at this beginning level is so confusing. I have spent my morning trying to figure out why the dative was used instead of the accusative. My students are not going to do that, and I didn’t even know about grammar notes.
You're thinking like a teacher ;)
My Latin I's and II's both rolled with it without questioning. They just accepted that's the ending used here.
They accepted it, but didn't understand it. That's the problem.
When you learn a new thing, first you accept everything. It's new, you still don't understand the rules, you don't question anything.
When you are in the stage II of learning, you reject things that you can't understand. You start questioning everything. They are still in the stage I.
(And there's also a age matter. Children tends to "absorb" new material with lesser resistance than adults. It's not the same way to teach both targets.)
Latin is not a language you can learn without asking questions about grammar. Latin native children could, as the Latin logic was natural for them, we aren't them.
If you think it's natural to mix accusative and dative early, because it's part of the "natural approach" of the language, I strongly disagree: It's just confusing. Learners of this course, when beginners can tell you, and that's stronger than any theory.
Latin-speaking children knew that the words changed according to the sentence, we don't know.
True. Maybe just letting it roll as a natural language learner is the way to go, but I’m always analyzing the grammar. Thanks for the insight.
Glad to help. Be sure to let us know how it works.
I'm always looking for new ideas on how to use Duolingo with an existing curriculum :)
Languages are not capitalised in Latin. This is interference from English.
Nothing (or everything was capitalized) by the ancient Romans. They also lacked punctuation and and often spaces between words. These conventions are commonly included for the ease of learners.
Very interesting. Didn't know about the lack of spacing. One can read more about this on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua
A bit later capitals were what you used at the head (caput) of a document to make it stand out - often the Roman style used in inscriptions, that we now know as “capital letters”
why do you need to say 'linguae latinae' when 'latinae' should be enough??
Because it's not enough. Just "latinae" by itself does not suggest the language.
I typed 'linguae latinae studes' instead of 'tu linguae latinae studes' and it didn't work
Next time, flag it and report it. It is currently accepting that, however (at least in this sentence).
Because that's "to learn".
And before you ask, "linguae latinae" is in the dative because "studere" is literally "to dedicate oneself to".
What is the difference between "studes" and "studetis". I've met both of this forms with Tu, but I don't really understand when to use each one
Studetis is never used with tu.
Vos studetis - you (plural) study
Why do I not see a grammar section of the chapters? As in... no chapter at all? I am SO guessing my way through here...
Yes, it definitely can be. That's why it accepts both tu and vos forms.
Unless it forces the plural "studetis" with "you all", then both that and the singular "studes" are equally acceptable. If you were marked wrong, that means you had some error somewhere. From now on, please either copy and paste or take a screenshot of your full, exact answer so we can help you see why you were marked wrong.
