"He saves me and I save him."
Translation:Ille me servat et ego illum servo.
19 Comments
18
The correct Latin translation doesn't require the use of the demonstrative or the first person pronoun.
I typed "Me servat et illum servo" and told that I was wrong as of 28 Aug 2019. Is it OK?
I think duolingo is correct on that one. unless you speak latin really fluently?
No, the personal pronouns are not strictly necessary, and thus shouldn't be marked wrong if they're excluded.
No. The latin accusative pronoun for he (him) is eum which would be used instead of the demonstrative illum, which translates to the masculine form of "that." As well, you definitely do not need the nominative personal pronouns at all.
https://www.thoughtco.com/latin-personal-pronouns-120438
Near the botton, all the declensions for personal pronouns are provided for your reference.
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@Zig-Zag19, while you are correct that eum is personal and illum is demonstrative, but @Magister_Smith is 100% correct that hic and ille, while demonstratives, are frequently translated as "he." See a Latin grammar guide, like Bennett's New Latin Grammar, which is a better resource than thoughtco for nuances such as this.
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I tried "Is me servat et ego eum servo" and it's marked incorrect (30.09.19). Not yet tried to use hic.
Why not "Ille salvat me et ego illum salvo"? Doesn't salvare mean save as well?
Ille/Illa/Illo is a demostrative pronoun meaning "that", it shouldn't be translated to he/she/it (see Spanish ése/ésa/eso)
It can indeed be translated as a simple personal pronoun.
You can see examples and usage in textbooks such as Wheelock’s Latin, as well as the oxford Latin dictionary.
Well, I checked the Oxford Latin Dictionary, Is, Ea, Id is a Personal Pronoun FIRST, Ille, Illa, Illud is Demonstrative FIRST. So while you can use both, the part that steams my clams is that they should introduce Ille as a demonstrative first, not as a personal pronoun. Teach them Latin correctly before taking off the training wheels. Not only that, but they use eius and eorum in this same section, not illius and illorum, which strikes me as odd. If you're going to insist, and one of the mods has insisted that they are interchangeable, then why bother including eius and eorum. It's inconsistency that's frustrating. And while I know it's still in Beta. We have to literally tear this thing apart, break it as much as possible. Both sides here get passionate and offended, myself included. I personally find it not worth it to start students off with every possible meaning of a word. O di immortales, when they get to introducing Ad while they use the 44th and 45th senses of the preposition first before addressing that it means to or towards. If I wanted to, I could warp every possible translation, by sitting here with the OLD and marking sentences as wrong because one of the half-dozen possible meanings wasn't used. Why is it save, and not preserve, or conserve, or guard, or mind, or watch, or follow, or observe (as a custom) and so on and on and on. The course should start with the FIRST, primary definition before it goes to -well technically it can also be he/she/it-
But "hic" and "ille" are used quite often as simple pronouns. It isn't an arcane or unusual use of the words.
I agree there is no need to complicate a course like this, and I probably would have used a form of "is, ea, id" as opposed to a demonstrative. That said, in the context of this sentence, the use of a simple pronoun translation fits pretty well with Latin.
I reckon the use is proper to Vulgar Latin; classical latin grammarians critized the use of demostratives.
