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  5. "He saves me and I save him."

"He saves me and I save him."

Translation:Ille me servat et ego illum servo.

August 28, 2019

48 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/norto

I tried "Is me servat et ego eum servo" and it's marked incorrect (30.09.19). Not yet tried to use hic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaJsemAdam

Accepted 3/11/2020 (US date format)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arturo.belano

that's how I translated it too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christos970882

Why not "Ille salvat me et ego illum salvo"? Doesn't salvare mean save as well?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Salvare doesn't have the same meaning.

Servare : For humans: to save, to monitor, to pay attention to, to guard.
For things: to keep, to conserve, to store, to preserve, to pay attention to, to study carefully.

Salvare: To heal (to give back health).
Religious use: to be saved, with the eternal salute.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Quidam_Homo

"Salvare" is not permitted in this course, as the course creators have said themselves somewhere in the discussions, because it is a post-classical word. It's not because of its meaning. In post-classical Latin it has basically the same range of meaning as "servare" (to save, to preserve) as well as the Christian sense of giving salvation, as you can see here in the entry from a dictionary of Mediaeval Latin: https://logeion.uchicago.edu/salvare


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Franz460815

All right for classical Latin, but aren't "Eboracum Novum", "California" and some others a little bit post-classical?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christos970882

Thanks for clarifying this. Put the blame on my musical background and plenty of singing in (probably Mediaeval) Latin!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sninguistics

Not sure about salvo-salvare-salvavi-salvatum, but pronoun objects such as me always come before the verb (me salvat). As far as I know, salvo isn't a Classical Latin word, it's a Vulgar Latin word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Quidam_Homo

That's not true about object pronouns always preceding verbs. A few examples found with a very cursory search: "cum videat me" (Cicero), "movet me" (Justinian), "scribendi amor rapit me" (Servius), "expectat me" (Seneca), "abdicat eum" (Quintilian), "coarguent eum" (Pliny).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rdrive

I'm going to keep experimenting on other questions but it doesn't seem like it accepts -que as an acceptable translation of and.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColinJParry

I have put in -que quite a lot. You won't find it much for joining clauses. Since we have to put in potential alternative translations by hand, using -que with an additional clause would triple our workload. Try it out when two simple direct objects are joined. It Will probably be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamLarge

Servo - A Roman shop/store attached to a petrol/gas station in Colonia Australiais. I won't get into the other Latin phrase associated with Australia ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heithr

What about seducere (to save in the sense of to rescue)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

In my dictionary "seducere" means the opposite of "to rescue".

Seduction, in English, came from a substantivation of the French séduire (from suduire).
(duire->duction), on the same pattern than con-duire (conduire), and the first meaning was: to lead away, to lead astray.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/seduce

Originally "entice (a woman) to a surrender of chastity.
(= to lead away from it)

It hasn't the rescue sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magister_Smith

It has been used as “to lead out of harm’s way.”

The OLD gives several authors, though I’d have to looks the passages up tomorrow to see full context.

That said, it wouldn’t be my first (or fifth) choice for “to rescue.”


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Thank you. It makes sense. But is it a later usage or no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/audrysilva

What is the difference between ille and is? Aren't both nominative?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewMar744674

Why can't I say "Is me servat et se servo"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magister_Smith

“Se” is the third person reflexive pronoun. It can only used when the subject is “he/she/it/they” and it means “himself/herself/itself/themselves.”


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hr.solei

If so, why is the translation "he saves me" and not "myself"? Wasn't "me" a reflexive pronoun as well?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

"Me" can be reflexive, but it's also just the normal accusative pronoun, translating to English "me." "He saves myself" doesn't make sense, since a reflexive has to be the same person as the subject of the sentence ("I save myself / (Ego) me servo"), so we know the correct translation is "He saves me."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hr.solei

Thank you! Damn hard to keep all those cases in mind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gaufridius5

A very interesting thread. I was surprised at, but humbly accept, servare as to save. I seem to remember ^servus^ as servant or slave. Notice how Latin cunningly frustrates expectations servare and servire! Who'd expect to have an everyday Latin sentence 'he saves his mother' as opposed to serving her. But i love some of the quirky sentences in this course "where are your daughters sleeping?" Made me laugh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christine969755

I translated Is me servat et ego ei servo, it was marked as wrong. Is it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

Yes, it's wrong. "Ei" should be the accusative form "eum."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yodo9000

I thought servare would use a dative object.
Hmm...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChiKaElektra

Can I say "me servat et se servo"? That's why I input


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

"Se" is a reflexive pronoun ("himself") and doesn't make sense here ("I save himself"?). You need a regular accusative pronoun like "eum servo" or "illum servo."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChiKaElektra

All clear. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AllemandeLeft

Why should I use > ego << servo ?? I thought that the ending -o in servo has the meaning of > I save << . I thought that the word Ego is used for strengthen the ending of the 1st person (-o). (Sorry for my English but I do my very best for to make me understandable...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magister_Smith

Nominative pronouns are grammatically unnecessary, but can be included. The reasoning for such inclusion would be for emphasis usually


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

It's not necessary to include "ego" (or "is" for that matter). I believe translations like "Me servat et illum/eum servo" are also accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/studygerman

Is ego optional/redundant here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

Since the verb conjugation already indicates the subject, subject pronouns are normally omitted. They can be included sometimes for emphasis ("I'm the one saving him, not someone else"), but otherwise subject pronouns like "ille/is" and "ego" are mostly redundant.

In this particular sentence though, including "ego" and "ille/is" is probably pretty reasonable, to emphasize that reversal of who's saving who. Either translation is fine.

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