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"Marcus familiaris benignus est."

Translation:Marcus is the kind relative.

August 28, 2019

40 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thkgk

familiāris familiāris = means "familiar acquaintance/friend" or "member of household (family/servant/esp. slave)" not relative. Latin words for relative are: perpropinquus, propinquus, cognatus etc. A better translation would be: "Marcus is a kind acquaintance."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Familiares means everything from family friend, slaves, servants, everyone who is part of the family. It's an extended family that doesn't exist anymore in our cultures (who, nowadays, has servants and slaves, or could have the right to kill anyone in one's house?).
It includes family members (and sometimes very close friends)

A relative is someone who is part of the family.
Blood connection explained: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/relative

So, they are not 100% the same, because the concept of "familiares" doesn't exist anymore now, but as familiares could mean family members, and relatives means family member, the translation is correct.

I think the definition of "properpinquum" in the dictionary mean adjective, very close, relative to, not a relative.

https://glosbe.com/la/en/perpropinquus

But for "cognatus", it means "similar to", not a relative (noun, defining a person), but it's also included as "blood-relation", so you're right, cognatus could probably be used here too?

https://glosbe.com/la/en/cognatus


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I suggest using "family member" as a synonym for "relative" and translation of "familiaris."


[deactivated user]

    “household member”?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    I was also wondering if hyphenation (family-member or, as you say, household-member) would make it more 'acceptable', as if keeping the 'word-count' the same is important.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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    The phrase is not hyphenated, and word count has nothing to do with it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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    IvorLudlam

    familiaris - “someone” (because masculine) “pertaining to” (-aris) “the family” (famili-). The adjectival ending serves as well as a genitive would here.

    Thank you! I always love learning etymologies.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    I agree; word count should have nothing to do with it; meaning should count for all. Family member would be a good term, or member of the family. (Would it matter, that 'there's nothing genitive' in the Latin? Not to me, but opinions will differ.) .

    Although Duolingo likes some phrasal translations (captare = to grab at; concupiscere = to be greedy for), it balks at others, which I think is too bad.

    In general, I mean my suggestions as suggestions, which moderators and any chance readers can take or leave.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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    Moderators do not take suggestions from the forums. They only take suggestions from answers marked as wrong that were flagged and reported as "My answer should be accepted."


    [deactivated user]

      familiaris - “someone” (because masculine) “pertaining to” (-aris) “the family” (famili-). The adjectival ending serves as well as a genitive would here.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

      Well, I flag the answers I think should be accepted, for the moderators to see.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gill714966

      That seems closer to the original sense than “relatives” i.e. connections by blood or marriage, which as already noted many members of your typical familia were not.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Esteban313452

      I don't get this translation. English is not my native language but what is it supposed to mean? "Is the kind relative?" The rest of them are not kind? Certainly the Latin phrase is not implying that.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

      Yes; I suppose the other relatives are not as conspicuously "kind" (benignus) as Marcus is!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinjakuHinjaku

      I wrote "Marcus relatives are kind" which was marked incorrect. Why is this wrong and how would you translate my sentence?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

      familiaris is not a plural form here so it cannot be translate as 'relatives'.

      If you are to say 'Marcus's relatives are kind' maybe Familiares Marci sunt benigni?

      (I didn't put benigni beside Marci since it would make it unclear if it was agreeing with Marcus or relatives.)


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinjakuHinjaku

      Thanks for answering. What about Marcus's relative is kind would that be translated differently from the given Latin sentence ?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

      Probably something like Familiaris Marci est benignus or Familiaris Marci benignus est would work.

      Just a note: Marci here is the genitive form of Marcus, would mean "of Marcus"/"Marcus's" denoting possession. There are other uses of the genitive as well. I just wanted to point that out since it has the same ending as the nominative plural for -us second declension nouns.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinjakuHinjaku

      Thanks for answering again. So If I understand correctly since Marcus is in nominative in the sentence we are talking about him, not his relatives which would require genitive


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

      Yes, normally the nominative is the person or thing 'doing' the action of the verb (at least in the active voice).

      I am not sure if the course notes are done yet, but I am sure they will eventually explain noun cases and uses better I can.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elin.7-1

      @Moopish

      The Skills above the first checkpoint have course notes now. They're good but don't contain full declension tables.


      [deactivated user]

        There’s a similar ambiguity with “familiaris Marci” - “familiaris of Marcus”; or “of the familiaris Marcus”


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Debbie697250

        Why does the program tell me I have typed in English, when I had not?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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        Sometimes it glitches. When that happens, take a screen shot and submit a bug report.

        https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204728264-How-do-I-report-a-bug-


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gouru

        As I understand "familiaris benignus" is just one whole adjective here, right?

        So, both in singular nominative case. Familiaris is a derived adjective from "familia" by adding the suffix "-āris" and both are in the same case like "novum eboracum" even though they have different timbres.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

        Yes, well put.

        The word familiāris belongs to the 3rd declension, and benignus (and Marcus ) belong to the 2nd declension.

        So, both are singular nominative, as you say (and masculine); but with different endings, because they belong to different declensions (or "sets" or "types").


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loi123456

        Can we use "Marcus familiar benignus est"? Because nom. masc. 3rd declension is "_"


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loi123456

        Thank you so much.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JesusRogel3

        Marcus is the good relative.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Septimus734191

        The correct answer is an awkward English sentence, at least in the U.S., but I suppose with a limited vocabulary at this point, it has to be. More natural English would be either, "Marcus is the nice relative" or "Marcus is the relative who is kind."


        [deactivated user]

          I’d say Marcus is a kind relative. “The” kind relative marks him out as differing from all the other relatives who are either unkind or apathetic.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

          I put, "Marcus is a nice relative," but it was not accepted. Reported 30-09-19.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWhit470186

          Surely "Marcus of the family is kind" is just as good a translation as "Marcus is the kind relative". Nonne prius est translatio tam bona quam alterum?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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          No. No one talks like that.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWhit470186

          No-one talks like, "Good morning, the boy is a glass of milk" (Goedemorgen, de jongen is een glas melk), but that's just the sort of sentence I'm finding in my Dutch course!!!


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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          Those examples aren't parallel. You can say "The X is a Y." People don't say "So-and-so of the family".


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWhit470186

          How about, "The head of the family is a right so-and-so". Seriously though, what about, "There is Marcus the milkman and there is Marcus of the family. Marcus the milkman is greedy, but Marcus of the family is kind." (Marcus lacticinator est et Marcus familiaris est. Marcus lacticinator cupidus est, sed Marcus familiaris benignus est.)


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWhit470186

          Thank you for your comments, Rae.F.

          I suppose a strict translation of "Marcus of the family" would be "Marcus familiae". Nonetheless the Glosbe Latin-English dictionary gives "belonging to a family" as one of the definitions of "familiaris, -is, -e". I was considering the possibility that "familiaris" was an adjective qualifying "Marcus" rather than a noun meaning "relative". Because of the freedom of word order in Latin different interpretations are often possible. Context determines the most appropriate one, as in Japanese.

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