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  5. "Num Marcus Novi Eboraci habi…

"Num Marcus Novi Eboraci habitat?"

Translation:Surely Marcus does not live in New York?

August 29, 2019

66 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I'm a native (US) English speaker; personally, I rarely use the "surely" structure. I would recommend accepting "Marcus doesn't live in New York, does he ?", which is how I would express the 'expects the answer "No, of course not!" 'structure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexroseajr

This shouldn't be downvoted, this is the modern equivalent of num and nonne.

"Eww, you aren't going to eat that, are you?" rather than "Surely you aren't going to eat that?" is far more common despite having the same meaning.

Likewise with nonne,

"You are arriving on time, right?" or is similar to "Surely you are arriving on time?"

If anything that's more correct because "You are doing x, aren't you?" implies more like "this is within your hands and I expect you to say yes. Whereas "Surely you'll be on time?" sounds more expectant of something out of your hands interrupting. It could be implying all sorts of things like, "Surely the bus isn't going to break down?" or "surely your taxi driver won't be that incompetent?"

Whereas "You are doing x, right?"/"You are doing x, aren't you?" firmly places the responsiblity in the listener's grasp, which is the original intention of the word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I think, for the question with Nonne ("expects the answer Yes, of course!"), which puts the negative (non) into the question formula , we'd want to use the negative in English.

Don't you want your ice cream? (with negative coming at the beginning) or You're going to finish your ice cream, aren't you? (with negative put at the end) are both examples of what would be Nonne questions, directed at a small child (presumed to love ice cream!).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ollie-Benson

What's the difference between "Novi Eboraci" and "Novum Eboracum"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

Novi Eboraci here is the locative case meaning "in New York". In general you only use it with cities, towns, small islands, and only a couple of other nouns (domus being one) and usually denotes the location something 'occurs'. Other nouns you just use in followed by the ablative form.

Novum Eboracum is the accusative case. It is usually used as the direct object of a verb (the thing being acted up).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MattSchoon

Don't call me Shirley.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GustavoI.2

No one would say "surely... " This transalation is just awful...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Exodus_08-2020

I use it at least, but it's not as popular as other ways to get the point across


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Focused-Way

I put : Marcus surely does not live in New York? Do you think the 'surely' should be more lenient on placement?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brainfork

I answered "Marcus doesn't live in New York?" which was marked incorrect. Is it safe to assume "num" in a sentence requires the use of "surely" or should I report my translation as correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexroseajr

The only way this should be acceptable is if stressed like:

"Marcus doesn't live in New York, does he?"

the "num" stresses that you expect the answer "no" in the same way "nonne" expects "yes". Like "You ARE coming to the party, aren't you?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/itsC14

O geezaz, thank you for this comment, I've finally get it!!!thanks!! Now i've understood what does all these strange question mean!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ukaunz

I looked up the meaning of "num":

adverb if, whether; now, surely not, really, then (asking question expecting neg)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Maximilliano

Certainly Marcus does not live in New York, ...WRONG! Come on, there is no difference between Surely and Certainly, surely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Correct; no real difference, in real life. But sometimes (often?) Duolingo is extremely word-specific. This can be a problem, when translating Latin into English, since English has such a wealth of synonyms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akifbulut

i think this sentence was testing my english not latin because i understood the meaning of it in turkish but i could not translate it to the english ahahaha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Oddly, it's called a typo when I put in "New York City" for the locative Novi Eboraci.

In fact, if we talked about Marcus living in NY State, we'd have the preposition "in" plus the ablative case: in Novo Eboraco. (It's just cities/towns/small islands and a couple of special words that dispense with prepositions and still have "locative case".)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MCarson29

I didn't think the Romans lived at a time when New York existed, so how would they have a phrase for New York?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

The city of York in England was called Eboracum by the Romans. So, add the Latin word for 'new' and you match New York.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MCarson29

Thank you! That makes so much more sense now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

And you'll find Novi Eboraci in the seal of Columbia University, for example (situated in NYCity).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneBeaton

My answer "Marcus does not live in New York does he" which seemed to me to express adequately that the answer "no" is expected was marked wrong. But when I went to Report it gave me no relevant option. I had expected "My answer should be accepted" which was there the last time I went to Rport. Confused now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ivyboy2

"doesn't Marcus live in New York" is wrong for some reason, why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

That question would be translated using Nonne at the beginning: note that that's the negative "not" (non), with the question-marker (-ne) added to it--just the way you made your English question with "doesn't" in it.

"Doesn't Marcus live in New York?" : Nonne Marcus Novi Eboraci habitat? You're expecting the answer, "Yes, of course he does!"

In English, there's a shift if you say, "Marcus doesn't live in New York, does he ?", and that's the question (expecting the answer No, of course not!) that translates the Latin question with Num (for which Duolingo wants the "surely ... not").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ivyboy2

The sentence we have to translate is a question, but the correct answer given isn't, how does that make sense?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adrienne929217

In uk english we would say Surely he doesn't.....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrendaniusFruust

Which part of this sentence represents the "not" part? I thought it had to be the Num, but that's "surely."

So if we take the rest of it, "Marcus Novi Eboraci habitat?" which part in this is "not"?! All I see is Marcus, New, York, and lives (in the third person i guess as in he/her/they live?)--no "not".

Very confused, thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

It is the num that represents a negative. It's a particle that "expects a negative answer," and so indicates the kind of question that one would ask of a child, like this: "But you don't actually like spinach, do you?" (or, "Surely you don't like spinach?"). Asking it this way shows that you're expecting to hear, "Of course not!"

So, glossing num as "surely" is a little misleading; I guess "surely ... not" would do a better job. (I don't happen to say "surely" very much, in real life, so I always try to find alternatives.)

If, on the other hand, you expect someone to answer, "Yes! Of course!", you have a different set-up particle, namely, Nōnne . Note that that's the negative adverb (nōn) attached to the question-forming particle, -ne. I think of this as specifically putting the negative into the question, as when you ask, "Don't you want to finish your ice cream?" ("Surely you want to finish ...?" "You want to finish it, don't you?")

It's a little hard to learn what num is without at the same time learning nōnne . Hope this helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nicholasha485446

how then would you say surely he lives in..? num is the negative what is the positive with surely?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I'm thinking you mean "a question that expects the answer Yes, of course". Latin would start that with "Nonne" (notice that the negative adverb, non, is here combined with the question-marker -ne).

Nonne Marcus Novi Eboraci habitat? "Marcus lives in New York, doesn't he?" is how I would translate that. But you could say "Surely Marcus does live in New York?" as a translation of the nonne sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theo639847

doesn't is the same as does not


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aevuh

I just now realized the um we all say when we are not sure, it must be ancient. Ummm, marcus doesnt live in new york does he? Sounds so of our times, but it is latin!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lee686655

So shoot me! I spelled York as Eboracum not Eboraci


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/souravdatta

Should not the correct answer be a question, it seems the suggested answer is notva question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/itlva

when do you say Novi Eboraci when Novi Eboracum?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Whenever you say "IN" New York, use the locative (Novi Eboraci).

If your sentence has "New York" as a subject, use the nominative (Novum Eboracum). New York is a big city: Novum Eboracum est magna urbs.

If your sentence has "New York" as a direct object, or object of one of the prepositions that governs the accusative, use the accusative: We love New York: Novum Eboracum amamus. We're traveling to New York: Ad Novum Eboracum iter facimus.

(Yes, for Novum Eboracum, the nominative (subject form) and the accusative are identical: it's a neuter noun.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RashiSingh882046

I answerd correct but its showing incorrect


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JouleCheva

Hi, my answer was perfectly correct. Please be notified because I wasted 1 life


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardBac13

Its hard to inderstand the acsent for some of this. In Latin it should be pretty phonetic but like this example i can't equate what is said to the letters


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sondos889573

What is wrong?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sondos889573

I wrote: "Surely Marcus dose not live in New York?" And that was mistake! Why? I lost my score twice!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Is it possibly the spelling of "does" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ILF17

What about this? "Does Marcus surely not live in N.Y.?" Would this not sound better?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Expecto20patronu

Why do you say ,,novi eboraci" and not ,,novum eboracum"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Novum Eborācum is a 2nd declension noun; such nouns use the ending -ī for the function called "locative," meaning, when giving the location IN or AT this place, you say: Novī Eborācī . (for "in New York")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clau899824

Deberían dar la respuesta por válida cuando es incorrecta gramaticalmente en inglés, ya que hay personas que no sabemos inglés, pero queremos aprender latín. Salve.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zU60uNOa

Num is so weakly heard!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yo_Its_A_Weeb

Unfortunately for you, he does.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PedroDiaz417553

Why Marcus does not live? , habitat is afirmative is live, not negative


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

But Num conveys a negative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sipiro

What is that? Is it correct English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dragon409717

If it is a question, you have to switch the subject and the verb


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Do you mean, in English?

Since the Latin word Num marks the question, and comes at the beginning, there doesn't seem to be a need to invert the subject and verb in Latin (e.g., the way they tend to do, in a "yes/no" question like Habitatne Marcus Novī Eboracī? , "Does Marcus live in New York?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ryan.jolly27

Why on earth do words endings change, it don’t make any sense, wouldn’t it still mean the same thing if “novun eboracum” stayed the same all the time, and how am I supposed to know when the ending changes, and how it changes?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Can you compare it to how "pronouns change" as in (in English): HE can only be a subject, HIS can only be possessive, and HIM has to be some kind of object?

So: "_ comes to the door" has to be subject-function HE; " I borrowed _ book" can only be HIS, the possessive; " We took _ to the movies last night" has to be the object-function HIM.

For whatever reason, Latin nouns (adjectives and pronouns) retain many different functions, 6 or so of them, represented by the different 'cases.' For what it's worth, I understand that Russian and other Slavic languages have some 7 cases in active use.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ryan.jolly27

I will never touch Russian


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angie236709

Ryan, latin has a structure full of something called "declensions". There are patterns that you need to follow to add these endings to nouns and the meaning of the noun changes with each of them. Novum Eboracum, for example, means New York, while Novi Eboraci means IN New York. You can find more information about this online :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VendelVeilandics

Why does it have a ? if the answer says it is an affirmative sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrisSwain

Listen Duolingo: "Marcus surely does not live in New York" is just as acceptable, in English, as "Surely Marcus does not live in New York". I might be coming to you to learn Latin -- but I don't need any lessons from you in how to speak English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

The course is in beta and does not have all possible answers yet. Report it and hopefully it will be added soon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AageNielsen

I had the same problem. Like others have said, it is in beta, so it will take time to incorporate all possible answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Felix839568

My forte is in Spanish and French, and I'm wholly new to Latin. Yet, no one should downvote on your translation in my own opinion. As my old Parisian professor told me ages ago: "Translation is an art", so it's not a precise art.

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