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  5. "Iuvenis cum psittaco irato i…

"Iuvenis cum psittaco irato in foro est."

Translation:The young man is in the forum with an angry parrot.

August 29, 2019

79 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elin.7-1

I should be allowed The young man with the angry parrot is in the forum.

Issued reported.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elin.7-1

And forty minutes later, the sentence has been updated in line with my comment.

Thank you Contributors :o) [edit] for sending a mail saying you have made the update.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeriltheDragon

That's weird. I typed in The young man with the angry parrot is in the forum just now and it counted it as incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elin.7-1

It can take a few days for the DL website engines to feed the updates through to the end users after the contributors have made updates. It's only been 9 hours since the update.

I've edited my comment above to be clearer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BobbyManson

As for Sept 11th @ 01:01PM, "The young man with the angry parrot is in the forum", they give me wrong. I don't use the keyboard to type because sometimes, the jumbled up words can give some clue to what the "correct answer is. But, I still make mistakes. long sigh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewArc6383

I just typed it that way and got it wrong. At the very least it should allow both.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Limeila

I know it's seven months later, but that's what I typed and it was counted correct, so thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/teacon7

I get the sense that, if this course was designed as a committee.... The person who nade this section is the crazy one. Great grammar, decent teacher, and maybe drunk half the time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

It's not the crazy one of the drunk one, it's the genius one.
Gave me a lot of fun with my learning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

A mouse designed to the specifications of an elephant? At least it's grey...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidBetz

I was just thinking that. I do NOT like whoever came up with the Latin forms for "New York" and other non-words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/H.E.P.

'York' and 'New York' are proper nouns, rather than a 'non-words' and there happen to be a correct and accepted Latin version which is surely why the contributors have used this to the satisfaction of all those familiar with these places.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Yes, lots of cities in the modern world have had Latin versions of their names in use for centuries... Look at the seals of various universities, or cities and towns, and you'll see Latin names that Duolingo didn't invent, Novum Eboracum among them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Latin name of New York is on their motto, so how is it bad?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rustywolfefrank

I actually looked this up and found that it is not on their motto, nor their state seal. It is, in fact, on their coat of arms. Their seal states their two state mottos-"Excelsior!" (Ever upward!) and "E Pluribus Unem" (Out of many, one).

Super cool that Novi Eboraci has actually been in use since at least 1625, I also had assumed it was a type of new latin used by hobbyists!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

(Ē plūribus ūnum , which is the motto of the US.)

If you look here, you'll see the seal of New York City, which includes the Latin name (Novī Eborācī) in the genitive case, because it says "seal of the city of New York":

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/dcas/about/green-book-city-seal-and-flag.page


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick_Pr

Don't hit the angry parrot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scian4

Buy it a drink, it'll start writing songs. You could make a fortune...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnAlienHere

Just a normal day is Greece.. A PAROT IN A MARKET JUSTA NORMAL DAY


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Sadly, parrot markets do exist. I won't paste a photo here because it's too horrible. But if you are curious, google it. It's in Asia and Africa.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/not_a_thing

Why Greece and not Rome?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aline843468

The answer says I have a typo in my answer because I wrote an angry parrot and they say it should be a angry parrot. Lol, what?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

For this kind of thing, open a thread on the troubleshouting part of the general forum. If you can paste a screenshot, it's even better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brantyr

I got the typo notification but at the level where I just select words rather than type, and it shows the result is exactly the same as what I entered


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Please, take a screenshot, and post it on the troubleshooting forum.


[deactivated user]

    idem, the same here


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ste-n-Dee

    The pronunciation kind of sucks. When writing this as dictation, I always start out writing "iuvenes"—because THAT'S WHAT SHE SAYS. Then at the end of the sentence, when I hear the singular verb "est", I realize that she was supposed to have said "iuvenis", and I have to go back and correct it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John481518

    Yeah, it seems that way to me as well. I got it wrong though. Also, she seems to be saying psettaco instead of psittaco. And her pronunciation of in sounds like a middle American pronunciation of the English word "in". The i in irato is the only i in the sentence that is pronounced the way I anticipate the Latin i to be pronounced. But heck, they all have odd ways of pronouncing Latin at times. Although to my ear my Latin sounds perfect, I'm glad I'm not being recorded.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alan778044

    I had the same problem, only I keep being too quick on the enter button for my own good! I've reported it as the audio sounding wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Septimus734191

    A few people here have pushed back against the usual claim that in Latin, word order doesn't matter. They counter that word order can matter, especially for emphasis; or so I understood. Well, this is certainly the case in English, as with this very sentence.

    This is a subtle thing, but: I think there is a difference -- in English -- between, "The young man with an angry parrot is in the forum," and "The young man is in the forum with an angry parrot." In the first sentence, "with an angry parrot" identifies which young man we are talking about; the second is ambiguous; it could mean that, or it could mean, the forum he is in, is the forum that has an angry parrot.

    So here's my question: is it really true, with this sentence, that the word order is immaterial? So, could this sentence have been, "Iuvenis est in foro cum psittaco irato," yielding the same options for translation?

    Or am I just off base here?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    You're on to something really important here.

    In fact, the sentence can only mean (in Latin) " ... is in the forum with the angry parrot."

    We're told that Latin doesn't have "the man in the picture" sentences: i.e., for a prep. phrase to be adnominal (describing the noun), we need a relative clause structure: Iuvenis qui cum psittaco est (or, qui psittacum portat, "who carries the parrot", or the like).

    In the absence of the rel. clause structure, we 'have' to take cum psittaco with the verb, est (in foro).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    "The young man is in the forum, with an angry parrot".
    Can also mean he is in the forum, carrying an angry parrot, but "with an angry parrot", not being the essential info.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jake122520

    "with an angry parrot" seems like it should be essential information here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/webgenie

    I was taught that verbs tend to come at the end of the sentence or clause, but this is my weakest language as I only had the pleasure of studying it for a very short time. I'm very happy I can learn some more thanks to the work of everyone that worked on this.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlevionHD

    She pronounces "iuvenes", not "iuvenis" o_O


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngeloJose874927

    Since I am a musician (classical guitarist), I have a fairly good recording system with state-of-the-art neuman mikes. I am able to record anything, and then slow it down while maintaining the pitch. I wondered whether or not I am losing my ability to hear since some of the words sound slurred. So I recorded this sentence and I slowed it down. I realized that the words "Psittaco irato" are slurred together which is easily proven if you have the equipment that I have. Since we are beginning Latin students, I would suggest that the man recording this Latin stop from slurring words. I have read that slurring words is common in Latin poetry. But does it have a place here? I was going to have my hearing checked out but now I realize it's not necessary. I note another person left the same comment below. Thank you for allowing me to gripe about this excellent website except for a few improvements that can be made. Please accept my comments as constructive criticism. Thanks!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnUnicorn

    Just because he's voiced by Gilbert Gottfried doesn't mean the parrot is always angry--he just sounds that way!


    [deactivated user]

      Which report button should I press for pronunciation problems? So far I’ve been choosing the audio problem, but it occurs to me that that may be simply for technical quality of the audio. On the other hand, there is no error in the sentence per se. Anyway, the parrot should be pronounced “psit-taco”, and not “psi-taco” - the “tt” may blend into one t, but a long one.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gallaecia2752

      Latin 7 English 11

      Latin wins again!


      [deactivated user]

        It’s the indefinite and definite articles, auxiliary verbs, and other such helpful words which make English lose the word count. Latin loses in rare sentences (depending, of course, how we translate).


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

        Do you have an example of longer sentences in Latin than in English?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ste-n-Dee
        • Mordete me "Bite me"
        • Omnes praesentes manducaverunt "All present ate"

        Hmm. Time for breakfast.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

        It's longer with the count of letters, but not longer in the count of words.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dim-ond-dysgwr

        Two and a half times as long, though, in terms of syllables.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClareFlynn3

        I was marked wrong for saying 'The young is man is in the market with the angry parrot'. I fail to see why this should have to be 'The young man is in the forum with an angry parrot.'


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

        Or "A young man ...," for that matter!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/widle

        I got "The young man with a angry parrot is in the market." as the correct answer, claiming I had a typo with "an angry parrot". I beg to differ.

        Edit: Oh I see the other comments now, apparently it's been noticed before.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguisT46

        I wrote "The young man with an angry parrot is in the forum. The error message said "You have a typo." "The young man with a angry parrot is in the forum." I disagree. In English "an" must precede a noun beginning with "a."


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dim-ond-dysgwr

        It's a small point, but I don't seem to be able to report it elsewhere: the program claims that the phrase "an angry parrot" contains a typo and wants to substitute "a angry parrot" (sic).


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theo639847

        in the correction "an angry parrot" is noted as wrong, the given correction is "a angry parrot". Which is of course not right.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IMDAMIEN

        ⸙ TV·SCIS·ODIO·HOC·ARCA SED·PASTRILLVM·MALVM·NON·EST


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Von351215

        Could one translate irato as irritated? It's similar to angry and easier to remember.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

        My students do so all the time, though "irritated" actually comes from a different Latin word (inrītātus, a, um or irrītātus, a, um , the participle of irrītāre , "to provoke, vex").

        I like to connect them with the word "irate," which is the English derivative of īrātus, a, um , an adjective apparently formed from the noun īra, -ae , f., "anger" (but viewed in antiquity as the perfect participle of deponent īrascī , "to become angry; to fly into a rage").

        But, as you can see, the emotion is (fairly) similar in both.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Von351215

        Thanks for the excellent answer. I hadn't connected it with irate.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JkumC5vF

        Actually, for the sake of precision, the infinitive of the deponent "irascor" is "irasci" (full paradygma: irascor, irasceris, iratus sum, irasci)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

        You're right, sorry (about the infinitive) !!

        (It is something of a "bogus" form, since īrātus, a, um derived from īra apparently preceded the 'invention' of a verb paradigm, īrāscor, īrāscī, īrātus sum .)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mona208606

        Angry parrots keep posting in this forum


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Solvind

        Couldn't iuvenis be translated as [male] teenager? What age is implied in the expression?


        [deactivated user]

          Usually between 20 and 40. Older than adolescentes and younger than seniores. The iuvenes are also known as the iuniores.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

          Juvenis at 39? Looks weird in the ancient time.


          [deactivated user]

            I see what you mean, because of our use of juvenile. The sequence is roughly infans 0-?, puer ?-14 (the Stoic view), adulescens 14 -21, iuvenis/iunior 21-40, senior 40-60, senex 60-120 (usually somewhat less).


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theo639847

            why is … with an angry parrot in the forum wrong?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sebastianus2001

            Maybe it's because an angry parrot would talk dirty in the forum...


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrunoKochi3

            It says I have a typo because I wrote "an angry parrot" and Duolingo thinks I wrote "a angry parrot". There was not an "a" in the selection list. Mebbe some space aliens put it in there or sumpthin' like that.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElizabethA923979

            The answer was marked correct but said I had a typo and it should be 'a angry parrot' - I think not


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/harshatal

            Hi, How would the sentence be written in latin if there were multiple parrots? "The young man is in the forum with the angry parrots"


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

            Iuvenis cum psittacīs īrātīs in forō est .

            The preposition cum makes its object (the following noun / pronoun , with or without an adjective) ablative case; the ablative plural ending for 2nd declension nouns and adjectives is īs .


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BdS702156

            The angry parrot pushed the young man to go to market and buy some boose


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilipWoff1

            I'm not an expert on Latin, and probably not an expert on anything. However... in another, similarly-structured sentence, it was thoroughly discussed as to whether, "the boy with the girl goes to the city" or, "the boy goes to the city with the girl".

            The 'correct' answer, in both cases, seems to follow some pattern of treating the 'with the parrot' and 'with the girl', as prepositional and/or at the very least, positioned the way they are in the sentence to 'mean something'.

            As a native English speaker, and as someone who would probably be a director's nightmare (or a sitcom sketch inspiration?) when it comes to how to interpret or read a line, I cannot say I find the two options, "the young man with an angry parrot is ... bla bla bla ", and "the young man is ... bla bla bla ... with an angry parrot" to be equivalent.

            Consider a situation in which you are tasked with monitoring a subreddit and also a liquor store at the same time. Consider the liquor store is frequented by a young man who owns an angry parrot, and he told you today that he just signed up for reddit. Consider the subreddit you monitor is /r/youngmenandangryparrots. Consider what you are going to tell your boss; who only speaks Latin; moments after you see /u/flexinkaratsvexinparrots log in and start a flame-war with an angry, computer-savvy parrot; when he asks you, "where is the young man with the angry parrot"?

            Consider how to say 'the young man with the angry parrot is in the forum with an angry parrot but not his angry parrot'.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KieranMaynard

            I wrote "an angry parrot is in the forum with the young man" should that be right?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ste-n-Dee

            No. The subject of the verb est is iuvenis ("the young man"), not psittacus ("a parrot"). The parrot is mentioned as psittaco irato ("angry parrot"). This is the ablative case, used with cum ("with"). So it's cum psittaco irato ("with an angry parrot"). So it's the young man being in the forum "with the angry parrot", not the parrot being in the forum "with the young man".

            To say what you wrote, "An angry parrot is in the forum with the young man", you would need to say something like, Psittacus iratus cum iuvene in foro est.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JkumC5vF

            Forum = square. I don't think the english word forum identifies a physical place


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ste-n-Dee

            Absolutely it identifies a physical place.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susabadd

            I typed exactly that and it was counted as wrong


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

            Maybe you had a typo and you didn't notice it. When it happens, make a screenshot, and post on the troubleshouting forum.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susabadd

            OK : thanks for the tip !

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