1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Latin
  4. >
  5. "Uxor maritum senilem habet."

"Uxor maritum senilem habet."

Translation:The wife has an aged husband.

August 29, 2019

63 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TonyWouters

It probably was an arranged marriage though


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MateoMalave4

Is this where the word senile comes from?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Quidam_Homo

Yes. And is related to "senior", which is just the Latin word for "older", and "senate", since that was made up of old men.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Queen-Rina

So señor and senile are the same word? That's a strange thought.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Similarly: Latin maior , which means "bigger" (in the nomin. sing. masc/fem form), and is the "ancestor" of both major and mayor . (The guy with more power--in other words, the "bigger" guy--in a given town was called the "mayor.")

The opposite, minor (comparative of parvus, a, um, small), has also come into English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

And there's also juvenile, from adj. iuvenīlis, derived from the noun iuvenis "young man" that Duolingo has taught us.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

"Senile" got a pejorative meaning from the medical field, very probably.

"Senile dementia"

https://www.etymonline.com/word/senile

Meaning "weak or infirm from age" is first attested 1848.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShaneNT

"haaabet"? It's just "habet", still stressed but only short 'a'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oldestguru

In many Romance languages nobody is aware of the existence of long and short vowels


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick_Pr

Non dico quod ea est fodiens auri.

Not sure that's accurate grammar on my part.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguistkris

My goodness, Google translate is useless für Latin: "I do not say that it exists so dug a grave and of gold."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick_Pr

"I'm not saying that she's a gold digger..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

I'm not sure "gold digger" would be a Latin expression, is it? Fodiens is "digging, burrying"
I've found many occurrences, for instance:
"Argentum scrutans, aurum fodiens, & fulgentem materiam requirens".
I don't know how to translate it well, but maybe "analysing argent, digging gold, and needing glittering material"?

But I'm not sure it has the figurative meaning of the expression "gold digger" in English, as a parasite in search of other people profit. (but maybe it was a joke).

If someone knows how to call this kind of parasites in Latin? (it can be useful!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Queen-Rina

I've found Yandex translate to be more helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I think the quod as used here is postclassical, but I'm sure it's an ancestor of the que in French and so forth. "I am not saying THAT she is a digger of gold." Very cute! I think they might have a compound (for gold digger) like aurifossor, though maybe that should have a feminine form!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick_Pr

I couldn't find something similar, though, maybe I should have searched for "miner." It may very well be a medieval use of quod. My Latin education was in classical, but most of my reading was Medieval.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacquesFre5

"maybe that SHOULD have a feminine form!" - - - From now on, you shall be the goddess of wiseness.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I was thinking of the 3rd decl. pairs like masc. actor, femin. actrix--the pairings that gave rise to aviator and aviatrix, once man (in the generic sense!) could fly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacopoSannazaro

Sounds like "Uxor maBITum senilem habet." I cannot hear the "R" sound in the recording.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christos970882

Sounds more like uxor nabitum. Reported it already


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacopoSannazaro

The "R" sounds like "B" in this recording.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

The R is not trilled in this audio. To me, it sounds like a single-flapped R, such as you might hear in British Received Pronunciation in words like Derek, forehead (pronounced forrid), which many people take for an allophone of D.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkDeVernon

"... elderly husband".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SimonRusht1

What case is maritum?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Marītum senīlem is accusative, representing the direct object of "habet."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Martin358481

True, but there is yet another possible (maybe I should rather say potential) analysis of this sentence. Habeo may also project a specific (actually quite common) structure with a verbal infinitive as predicate and a nominal subject in the accusative (which is not the direct object of habeo). The meaning of habeo is then "consider, regard, hold as" and if the infinitive is the verb esse (to be), it may be (and very often actually is) left out:

"Uxor maritum senilem habet" may therefore also represent "uxor maritum senilem esse habet" with the verb esse 'be' left out, i.e., "uxor maritum senilem (esse) habet", which would mean "the wife considers her husband old (or senile)". In other words, maybe he is not that old, it is just that his wife regards him as such. Anyway, I may come back and polish this clunky analysis later on; in the meantime, do with it what you want. The thing is called ACCUSATIVUS CUM INFINITIVO structure, if you wanna read on it elsewhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Nice point! Americans will recognize this (common) meaning of Latin habēre in "We HOLD these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ..." etc., where HOLD = "consider these truths (accus) to be (infin)" or "consider THAT these truths are ...". Good example of indirect statement (as we call the structure)!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oldestguru

"Aged" is a weird choice as an attribute for a person. It would be more appropriate for cheese, wine etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivitcyex

Aged (1 syllable) for foods/wine, a well aged wine. A-ged (2 syllables) for people, an aged man.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Yes--that "agèd P" in Dickens, for example.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oldestguru

I never knew this difference exists, cheers!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Yes; it makes me think of Dickens' (tongue in cheek) "aged P" (for "elderly parent") in "Great Expectations."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Seems correct for the Oxford university.

She has two rather aged aunts.

old:
an aged man

The apartment was built to meet the needs of the aged.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/aged


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scian4

Lol, near old folks' homes (retirement villages) in New Zealand, there are little road signs saying "Aged Persons" to warn drivers to be extra vigilant...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Could we use "senem" as an equivalent to "senīlem" ? In other words: Uxor marītum senem habet. (Or, Uxōrī marītus senex est.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cody_CW

I am a little confused on the accusitive case. Why is it "maritum senilem" and not "maritum senilum?"

Also, as a side note, I feel like DL should allow for italics in discussion boards since Latin is generally italicised in academic settings. Just a thought.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

You've got an adjective belonging to the 3rd declension (senīlis, is, e), hence its accus. sing. form ends in -em; and a noun belonging to the 2nd declension (marītus, -ī, m.), hence its accus. sing. form ends in -um.

Adjectives AGREE with the nouns they modify in case (acc), number (sing), and gender (masc)--in this instance. AGREEMENT does not , however, mean that noun and adjective will necessarily 'share' the identical endings!

If noun & adj. belong to the same declension, of course their endings will 'match' (or 'rhyme') exactly: marītum īrātum, marītum pecūniōsum, etc. (an angry husband, a rich husband).

Whenever noun & adj. belong to different declensions, though, the two will AGREE in the 3 respects I mentioned (case, number, gender), but not have identical endings, by definition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PauloChen2

You (Cody_CW) say "DL should allow for italics in discussion". In fact, it does, but the effect is subtle, unless you're using a true Roman font. Italics in a san-serif font just produce slanted letters, not true italics. True italics have cursive-style serifs.

Duolingo uses a version of John Gruber's Markdown language which supports

  • "italics" (slanted)

  • bold upright

  • bold "italics"

  • strikethrough

  • color

  • highlighed words

    • highlighted "italics"
    • highlighted bold upright
    • highlighted bold "italic"
      • highlighted bold obnoxious

and much more.

The best reference I've found for Duolingo markdown is

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28284738

Duolingo's Markdown is different than standard Markdown, so I would stick to the resources in the Duolingo fora.

Duolingo has some support for Unicode, allowing ā (a with macron) and ă (a with breve) and so forth. It even allows my favorite sequence of Unicode characters: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (but you have to use a triple \ before the first underscore and put another \ before the second underscore).

However, normal Unicode italics do not work. Those, and everything after them will disappear from your posting. Genuinely gone, not just hiding. 😖


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scian4

Put an asterisk at each end of what you want to be in italics :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christian90001

If you call someone "senil" in German you mean he is a confused old man. It's more of an insult.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Simon269252

I keep thinking there are double consonants based on the woman's pronunciation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DerAndereLerner

Senex, senicis (an aged / old human) Senilis, senile - aged


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

It's actually senex (nomin. sing.), senis (gen. sing.), m., an old man.

You might be thinking of a noun like iudex, iudicis, m. , judge.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kb2136

Why did she pronounce it with the double l?


[deactivated user]

    Is it wrong if instead of "the wife" i write "wife"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    I don't think "wife" can be the subject in an English sentence, as opposed to "A wife" or "The wife" (or "His wife," "This wife," etc.).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EllaDePanfluit

    Shouldn't "uxor" be able to be translated as "woman", too? That's what I learned in school, though of course it might be wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    The Oxford Latin Dictionary has only the definition "wife" for uxor ; but the word fēmina can be both "woman" and "wife."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/suhridmulay

    Is the english word 'senile' related to senilum?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

    Yes; English 'senile,' 'senior,' 'senate' all derive (ultimately) from Latin senex, senis , m., "old man," whence they made the adjective senīlis, senīlis, senīle , "relating to an old man."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elenekol

    She's a gold digger


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SALOMON995160

    It could have been arrainged but at least no red ideological intention like other sentences that have a clear liberal agenda. These platforms shouldn't be used for politics or secret agendas.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguistkris

    Yeah right, "liberal agenda". Duolingo sentences are often quirky, sometimes silly and more likely than not a little useless (i.e., won't exactly help you buy a train ticket and book a hotel room). If you think the mention of somebody's wife or husband is "liberal", well, it isn't.

    Also, the rest of the world think Americans are using that world wrong when they consider it a term of defamation. How can something derived from the concept of liberty ever be considered bad? Looks like you're the one with the agenda, Salomon.


    [deactivated user]

      In a world where marriage isn't always heteronormative it would be far more political to ignore them than to point them out.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Imannoyinglol

      It's ok. You can say sugar daddy


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ungringoperdido

      If one of my EFL students wrote this, I would give them points, but note that this sounds weird. Aged is an adjective for fermented products. Senile might have a bad reputation these days. I'd say, "she has an older husband." Maybe emphasizing the word stress on older, if he is a senior citizen.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ungringoperdido

      Maybe Dickens used aged with two syllables, but we live in the 21st century. Language evolves.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

      We can still say it that way (like "beloved" and so forth), when we mean it that way.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adohall

      Elderly or aging are better translations for senilis. Aged is used with products like wine or cheese, not with people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PauloChen2

      See the response, above, by Ivitcyex to the same point made in a posting by oldestguru.

      Learn Latin in just 5 minutes a day. For free.