- Forum >
- Topic: Latin >
- "Psittaci cum pupa loquuntur."
60 Comments
625
The conspiracy is spreading! First the parrots, then the weasels and now the dolls are on it, too...
Cocoon?
Like talking to alien cocoons from outerspace?
Pupa is also a word in English, directly borrowed to Latin, meaning the pupal stage in insects, before they become adults imago.
I have always thought that the Polish word for it is "dupa". Am I wrong or are they synonyms?
Least the dolls are not speaking to the parrots...yet, pass me the rum
is it possible to translate this "the parrots with the doll speak"? In English, the difference is specification with whom the parrots are speaking (in the answer they expected) as opposed to which parrots are doing the speaking. Would a different preposition (or something) be used in Latin, or are both these answers actually acceptable?
- 849
Yes. I have seen Roman dolls in the British Museum. Apparently they made souvenir figures of gladiators. Were they the first action figures?
Yes, totally. The Romans had already invented action figures.
Action figures of famous gladiators were sold in the shops that were at the Colosseum together with things to eat while watching the fights. Doesn't it sound the same like today at the stadium? ^_^
- 233
Although some speakers feel that "talk with" implies an exchange, a conversation and "talk to" implies a one-sided monologue, this is not the case. The terms are broadly interchangeable. "Talk to" or "speak to" are usual in the UK. If I were consulting someone on behalf of I third party, I might say, "I will speak with him about the matter".
- 1096
I just put that but it was not allowed. I'm going to flag it as I think it ought to be.
Does this have a specific meaning between: (A) the parrots use the doll like a ventriloquist would, or (B) the parrots have a conversation with the doll, which is speaking on its own. Or could it be either?
I hadn’t thought of that one, interesting. I wonder would speaking with - in the sense of by means of - the ventriloquist’s doll be something like “per pupam”? I think in this case the parrots are indeed having a conversation with the doll - which isn’t speaking at all of course, the parrots are just ebrii as usual.
'Parrots speak with dolls' is not accepted. Even though Latin doesnt use thebword 'the', apparently we have to include it in the translation even though its not improper English.
Could the parrots and the doll not both be speaking? Pupa could be the subject here as well as the parrots.
No, for 2 reasons: Firstly cum is present, meaning that one noun is the object of the preposition. Since loquuntur is plural ([they] speak), the subject must be a plural noun, but pupa is singular. Therefore, pupa cannot be the subject and must be the object of the preposition. Secondly, cum takes the ablative case, such that if "parrots" was the object of the preposition, it would have to be ablative (psittaco, not psittaci).
I answered "the parrots with the doll speak" and it was marked incorrect. In that case, how would you translate "the parrots with the doll speak" into Latin?
I had the same question earlier in this forum, but it has not yet been answered... I would just flag it; as far as I know, both should be accepted, and if I am wrong, the admins can just refuse the suggestion and maybe develop the course to show why this would be wrong.
I answered "The parrots with the doll speak" which was marked incorrect. The correct answer from Duolingo was "The parrots speak with the doll".
Thanks Kathryn for your response which I agree with.
For me this problem is about word order changing the meaning in English.
Consider the following sentences in English:
A... The parrots with the doll speak. B... The parrots speak with the doll.
To my mind these two sentences mean two very different things. There is no ambiguity. The meanings of A and B are precise and different.
In sentence A only the parrots are speaking. The phrase "with the doll" identifies which parrots we are referring to out of all the parrots in the universe.
In sentence B the parrots and the doll are speaking. Here the phrase "with the doll" refers to the speech and not the parrots.
Duolingo says that "Psittaci cum pupa loquuntur" translates to "The parrots speak with the doll".
Please can you tell me the Latin for "The parrots with the doll speak" ?
Many thanks to Duolingo for the hugely enjoyable Latin course. I do hope the course can be extended to include other tenses.
Alan.
yep, I agree. In English these are two different sentences; my question is whether the two are distinguished in Latin within the sentence, or whether the distinction in Latin is context only. Prepositions in a non-native language are difficult, and I have not extensively studied them in Latin, so I can't provide a definite answer. However, this may interest you: https://glosbe.com/en/la/with It is a Latin-English/English-Latin online dictionary: not an answer, but it might be a first step to finding an answer if the admins do not get around to supplying one.
- 375
Psittaci cum puppa loquuntur, meaning that the parrots have a doll and speak, different from speaking With the doll.
Stupid Duolingo. I had that answer and was marked wrong. What are you playing???????
I am beginning to doubt my knowledge of my mother tongue. Isn’t ‘speak with’ the same as ‘speak to’?
I am not an English native speaker, on the contrary, my English is scarce (I am writing with the help of Google Translator), but I learned that "to speak to" and "to speak with" someone are (almost, let's say 99%) equivalents.
In Italian, my mother tongue, it is the same: "parlare con" and "parlare a" qualcuno, are almost the same and the differences of meanings are just nuances.
In my latin dictionary I see "loquor" used only together with preposition "cum" + ablative, there aren't examples of use with preposition "a", therefore I think that "to speak with" is a more letteral translation, but not necessarily more correct.
If "The parrots speak to the doll." is marked as wrong, I think you should just report it.
