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  5. "Nos in colloquium venimus."

"Nos in colloquium venimus."

Translation:We have a conversation.

August 31, 2019

52 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lililil

75 BC version of “we have entered the chat”


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FaizalZahid

How about "left the chat"? Do they have that too?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FriedrichJ3

The pronunciation should be corrected: It is venímus, not vénimus.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Agreed; and the quantity of the vowel "e" is wrong. (Keep the long "e" for the perfect tense.) We need a long "i" that receives the stress, and a short "e", for the present-tense form here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Schnueffi

The audio examples in this course are extremely bad anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinjakuHinjaku

Does this sentence literally mean "We in conversation come" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magister_Smith

More like "we come into a conversation"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ISpeakAlien

Notice that colloquium is accusative, not ablative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

So, also We join a conversation? It sounds right?

If It's right, I would really prefer it to "have a conversation", because "have a conversation" is not "come into a conversation", and the"join" helps to understand the "venimus in".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magister_Smith

To me “joining a conversation” sounds like one was already happening between other people and you are now a part of it.

In my mind “having a conversation” doesn’t have that context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Yes, but why "venimus"? Is it only idiomatic? I really don't understand why Latin uses "venir" if the conversation is just started, and not already going on.

Edit: I've found in the Gaffiot another meaning, and it's the only meaning they give:

In colloquium venire = roughly translated from French by "to go to an inteview" (not a job interview, but only a chat between two persons or more (se rendre à une entrevue).

For me, it explains completely the reason of the presence of"venire", that I would find illogical without that.

It gave the word "colloque".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magister_Smith

The OLD has "venire" used for "coming into a state, situation, or activity."

And since I do not consider myself fluent (in the same way that my colleagues who teach Spanish are fluent in that language), this is one of those times I wish we had native speakers to ask.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

I understand, but I'm still searching, and I can find only the "interview" meaning (i.e "colloque"). Olivetti gives the same. It gives only colloque/entretien/entrevue (sadly they give the translation only in the French and Italian site, not the English one)

Colloque is the French word for seminar (séminaire).

https://www.grand-dictionnaire-latin.com/dictionnaire-latin-francais.php?parola=colloquium

Italian for colloquium: conversazione, dialogo, incontro

French for colloquium: conversation, dialogue, rencontre.

So, even if we can't ask native people here, I really think it makes sense, and it's a better translation than the meaning suggested here. When it's venire, they don't translate it by conversation, but seminar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

There is an infrequent English expression that may be an equivalent, and is perhaps a little old fashioned now. "I fell into conversation with a centurion yesterday". This idiom probably implies "by chance, with someone I had not met previously". There is another idiom, though, which may be closer to our meaning: "I got into conversation with the boss yesterday, and she was very encouraging about our proposals". English has two idiomatic ways to cover this Latin situation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

I don't think it's the meaning here, if it's "by chance", it's rather the opposite. The parley/meeting/conference/interview (translated by "colloquium" is something that has been planned.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Unless the colloquium describes a "conversation" that took place when two people met.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Notice that it's in + accus. (colloquium), not in + ablative (colloquio); so "in" is translated as "into," here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Yes, but their translation is not good anyway. In or into is not important, the important part is to translate "colloquium" as it should, like a meeting, a talk, a conference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

From the Latin point of view, though, whether in governs accus. or abl. is consequential.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LWilson15

Nonne est ¨colloquium habemus?¨


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Septimus734191

What's wrong with "we enter into a conversation"? It was rejected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Catharine499251

Yes, imho this is the best translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidLamb53073

Or simply, "We converse", which is accepted as correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GunnarRica

Could somebody tell me if it would acceptable to say "We are in conversation"? Or is this phrase meant to indicate that a conversation is beginning, and not that it's already in progress?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dkahn400

See my reply to PERCE_NEIGE elsewhere in the discussion. I would not use this idiom to describe a simple conversation. There is a verb colloquor meaning to talk together, converse, hold a conversation, a parley, or a conference. So "we are in conversation" - colloquimur. There's also an anteclassical verb: confabulor giving confabulamur for "we are in conversation".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hilarymcca5

It sounded like 'venit' - audio quality


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivan351547

awful pronunciation, in this case. Sorry, Duolingo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1e7nx0WG

Having read and, I hope, understood the comments in this discussion to date (12th November 2019), I'm still not clear whether there is agreement that "We have a conversation" is, or is not, a reasonable translation of "Nos in colloquium venimus". On the face of it, fairly literal translations, "We come into the conversation" or "We come into conversation", as others have suggested, emphasise the commencement of a conversation or that the speakers are joining an existing conversation,. That's not quite the same thing as simply "We have a conversation".

There appear to be classical references involving colloquium or colloquia that use habere or other verbs; I found examples at https://translate.enacademic.com/colloquium/xx/xx/. So I question whether venimus is the best verb to choose for a sentence "We have a conversation".

EDIT: A year after I wrote the above, the link I provided unfortunately seems no longer to be accessible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Gaffiot, Lewis, Olivetti, Dicolatin, all say that it's not a good translation.

Even if "conversation" is one of the meaning for "colloquium", it's not the first one, but, more importantly, the crucial thing is not to translate "colloquium" alone, but the whole expression "colloquium venire", and to know what would be "ad colloquium venire", to compare.
Because when expressions do exist, it's absurd to translate "venire" alone, and "colloquium" alone, and to concatenate the 2 meanings.

We have examples of these translations, for instance, in "Entick's New Latin-English Dictionary: Containing all the words and phrases proper for reading in both languages", they translate:

To parley = In colloquium venire.

Other dictionaries or translated texts give the same thing. Never the Duo's version.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dkahn400

I think the contributors have misused the idiom here. I can't find examples of in colloquium venire with the bland meaning of "have a conversation". It seems to be more to do with engaging formally in a conference or parley.

E.g. in Caesar's De Bello Gallico 1, 35: in conloquium venire invitatus - "invited to a conference". And 1, 43: ut erat dictum, ad conloquium venerunt - "as had been appointed, they came for the conference".

Then from the early modern period we have from Francis Bacon's History of Henry VII: Ille fuit ut rex Scotiae cum rege Henrico apud Novum Castrum congredi et in colloquium venire vellet. - "Which was that the King of Scotland wished to meet with King Henry at Newcastle and parley."

Not just for an idle chat, surely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnssiAatam

I see. I was wondering why the Latin language would use the verb "venīre" instead of "habēre" in a sentence like this. Thank you for the insight. I think that I will rectify my translations from now on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dkahn400

It has a sense of coming together for a talk. As I've said before I don't think "have a conversation" is the real meaning of this idiom.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magister_Smith

It’s just an idiom and every language uses words in a sense that may vex its learners.

After all in English you can “take” a test.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShotgunJohnny99

The pronunciation is wrong--- venimus has a long "i" and thus should have a stress on the "i." The audio makes "e" long, which turns "venimus" into a different word altogether--- the perfect form--- changing the sentence into "We have had a conversation."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1e7nx0WG

I hope you reported it as "The audio does not sound correct".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dkahn400

This has already been noted by SuzanneNussbaum above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/William660296

Why does she sound so sad? :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/werneran

There are too many idioms in this course for how short it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fantomius

Would "We hold a conversation" be a valid translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judy612781

Yes acc wording to Longman's Dictionary


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judy612781

'We hold a conversation' not accepted by Duo but is correct in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English and in educated parlance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I just wonder if, with the use of the verb venīre , the stress is on the start of the conversation: We come into conversation = We start a conversation = We begin to hold a conversation, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveSwart1

Why not 'We are conversing'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dkahn400

See my reply to GunnarRica earlier in the discussion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IARose
  • 1958

There are so many ways of translating this including: we are conversing; we are in conversation; we are talking (to one another); we are having a talk (chat)... that I suppose it is impossible for Duolingo to take account of them all, but one or two options other than the single one that is on offer would be nice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kerry449653

We hold a conversation should also be accepted as a translation. It is common usage in Australia and the UK and other Commonwealth countries.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

That might, however, be an expression in Latin like colloquium habēre . It seems that the venīre expression is used of deliberately coming together to hold talks (of the two sides fighting in a war, for example).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivan351547

I am not an expert, but in this sentence, I think that the key is the accusative form (in colloquium), which means direction or intention. The use of the verb "venimus" also suggests this meaning: " We come to talk". It is just my opinion, but I always want to help: "in auxilium venio" (I come to help, the same structure, by chance).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Latin also has a construction called the dative of purpose: it's usually an abstract noun that's put into the dative.

"I come to help" / "I come for assistance" : Auxiliō veniō .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivan351547

Thank you very much., Suzanne. I did not remember that structure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Grātiās tibi, Iohanne!

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