"Non ce la fai da solo?"
Translation:You cannot do it on your own?
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I am an native speaker [but unfotunately not a teacher], so I'm not sure whether my explanation will be accurate.
1) Farcela is simply a pronominal verb; pronominal verbs are formed by a verb + one or more pronouns (personal pronouns, or monosillable / disillable that cannot be used alone).
2) Therefore, this kind of verbs have to be always linked (and conjugated) with the verb. And most times (if not all times) they change the meaning of the verb alone ("fare" in this case).
3) The translation: "Non LE fai da solo" wouldn't be accepted, because the meaning is totaly different,
Non LE fai = you do not do THEM (LE = pronoun) Non CE LA fai = you are not able to do something, and better still "YOU DON'T MANAGE TO DO something"; I mean: the double pronouns "CE LA" add a "surplus value" to the verb alone (fare) so that the sense sort of changes to "manage" / "be able to" That's why in English you have to translate "YOU CANNOT" and not simply "you do not do ..."
Hope I have helped with some of the questions, esp to GregH and mbisson (and others). Bye
It does. I think it works like a sort phrasal verb that changes the meaning of "simple" verbs. Although in the infinitive form it is one with the verb, but in other forms it can be separated.. Another example: avere (= to have) vs averCela con qualcuno ... = (to be angry with sb) At the moment I don't remember others
Thank you very much for this explanation!! What i was thinking, please correct me if I am wrong: Could it be that "ce" (also ci, etc) personalizes the verb? So, "Non ce la fai" = "You do not do it yourself", and "ci vediamo"=" we see ourselves" or rather "we see one another" ?
If you add the particle 'ci' to the end of an infinitive OR before other forms of a verb, this 'ci' will change the meaning of that verb. The new verbs that you have made this way will follow regular conjugation patterns (you can conjugate them like any other verb). (Note that 'ci' changes its form to 'ce' when you place it in front of another particle, such as 'la' ('ci + la' become 'ce la'), as in the example above "Non ce la fai da solo?".)
So, for example: 'Io vedo' means I see; but (io) ci vedo means I can see, I am able to see. ( tu ci vedi (you can see), lui/lei ci vede...
Other verbs that can take the particle 'ci' (which would change their meaning) are:
Sentire = hear, but 'sentirci' means 'to be able to hear' OR 'can hear'; Ex. "Più forte! Non ci sento. (Louder! I can’t hear.)
So, sometimes (as in the two verbs above and our example sentence "Non ce la fai da solo?") 'ci' means 'can/able to/manage'. However, with other verbs, 'ci' can take completely different role and can mean something completely different, as in the following examples:
Pensare = think, but 'pensarci' = to think ABOUT IT; Ex. "Ci penso." (I’m thinking about it.)
Volere = want, but 'volerci' = to take or to need; Here, 'ci' changes the meaning of the verb 'volere' completely, as you can see); Ex. "Ci vuol pazienza." (It takes patience.)
There are other examples of how 'ci' can change the meaning of some other verbs (which you will learn when you come across them), but I hope this will help clarify the elusive particle 'ci' at least a bit. =))
Yeah, I met the "flying bridge" hint a while ago too! You say it was plural? So there are many flying bridges out there for us to avoid! But I totally agree. No-one can make a flying bridge by themselves surely??? Maybe someone who could explain to us the meaning of "ce" here could be so brilliant that he could make a flying bridge? Isn't a flying bridge one of those oxymoron things that can't possibly exist? Moreover what are the aerodynamics of a flying bridge and how can we fly them successfully?
Hehe lol.. I'm not fluent in italian nor english so I'll try to give you guys the best answer possible.. "Ce" here in this sentence is referring to "us". The reason is "ce" and not "ci" is because there's a direct pronoun which is "la", therefore it's a "double prounoun" sentence. Indirect pronouns always goes before direct pronouns. Now, when the indirect pronoun (mi, ti, gli, le, si, ci, vi, loro) is preceded by the direct pronoun (lo, la, li, le, ne), then they change to "me, te, glielo, se, ce, ve". Ex. Lui me lo dà (he gives it to me), Lui glielo dà (He gives it to him/her), Lei ne l'ha detto (She said it to us), Ce ne vogliono due (You need two of them.. and so forth.. I'm a native spanish speaker, and this double pronouns conversions things happens in spanish as well so that's why i understand them hehe, hope i helped and careful with those flying bridges lol
Dear wes_wallie7 I'm afraid BlancheDB is right, "ce" is not referring to US here, as I tried to explain in another message in the present discussion two days ago. If I can suggest a sort of synonym in Italian it would be: "non CI riesci da solo " (farcela = riuscirci). CI has the same meaning as CE, as you correctly explained but both are referred to IT, instead. You don't succeed in IT, you cannot do IT.
The ce is really ci but the spelling changes when there is another clitic after it.
The ci in this case is the "locative" one, not the one that means "us."
So, literally, it seems to mean "You cannot do it here alone?" (Or "there" or some other place already established in the conversation.)
As others mentioned, Italians often put in a "redundant" ci. I think they're optional, so Non le fai da solo should mean the same thing.
Feedback from a native speaker would be welcome, of course. :-)
Unfortunately, this is one of the case you can't take the "ci"/"ce" out; doing this way, the sentence assume a completely different meaning. "Farcela" is kind of expression that should be conjugated keeping all the clitics. Here you can find other examples:
A bit difficult to explain what you ask; ... but just suppose it works like a phrasal verb: "fare" with those two added particles CE and LA changes completely (somehow illogically) its meaning from "TO DO" into SUCCEED, MANAGE, WORK IT OUT, COME THROUGH etc. So, I don't think I succeeded in explaining WHY, but perhaps I did it in explainig WHERE (or how)
andval...I agree w/ you. The way you worded it as a question is absolutely correct. If the question were phrased in the form of a statement the effect would be to express some kind of subtle undertone, perhaps shock, surprise, sarcasm, etc. all impossible to know without a context, but phrasing it as a statement is not incorrect.
Some useful discussion here:
Used to announce that you need a time-out: non ce la faccio (più), which means 'I can't take it (any more)!'
'Can you manage?' – "ce la fai?"
Farcela, of which 'ce la fai' is just one possible conjugation "means 'to be able to' or 'to manage to', based on fare ('to do') with the additions ce ('there') and la ('it') – which in this case, as far as anyone can tell, are only there to make it sound nice..."