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"Vos mercatores pretia aestimatis."

Translation:You merchants estimate the prices.

September 1, 2019

41 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinjakuHinjaku

Why is it "You merchants" why not just "merchants" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thenino85

Because the verb is conjugated as a second-person plural, and "merchants" alone would be a third-person plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinjakuHinjaku

Thanks for answering. Would the sentence "You all who are merchants estimate the prices" mean same as this sentence" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yasmine_y

That would make two separate sentences: "you/you all estimate the price" (principal clause) and "who are merchants" (relative subordinate clause). It would become something like: "Vos, qui mercatores estis, pretia aestimatis". The concept of course it's the same, but the construction is clearly different, both in Latin and in English. You can read more here: https://www.thoughtco.com/relative-clauses-in-latin-117781

(I hope I understood it correctly, maybe you meant to ask how you would translate it if you meant: "those of you who are merchants"...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick_Pr

Different grammar, but pretty much the same objective meaning (perhaps different connotations.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EAni4
  • 1368

"Vos mercatores" not just "mercatores".

And both in the same case (nominative) too, so they refer to the same things/people. Well "mercatores" can be accusative too, but that would be the same as "pretia" and that doesn't make much sense (prices-merchants / merchants-prices). Remember it can't mean "merchants' prices", that would require the genitive ("mercatorum pretia").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EAni4
  • 1368

Actually thinking about it a bit more, "pretia" can be nominative too. So "You prices estimate the merchants" also works, at least grammatically.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinjakuHinjaku

Thanks for answering. Are pretia and mercatores same as nominative when used as accusative ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EAni4
  • 1368

Yes. Pretium is neuter, and the nominative is always the same as the accusative for neuter nouns. Mercator is not neuter, but it's 3rd declension. And many 3rd declension nouns have identical nominative and accusative forms in the plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

In the 3rd, 4th, and 5th declensions, all masc/fem nouns have the same plural nominative and accusative forms.

Endings are -es, -us, and -es, respectively.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EAni4
  • 1368

@SuzanneNussbaum - Most do, it's true, but not all. For instance, some writers used hostīs as the accusative plural of hostis but hostēs for the nominative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinjakuHinjaku

Thanks for answering.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

I think that, when there's that kind of addressing, both therms are kept together. It makes sense. "Vos mercatores" as a single item, linked.

Am I right? Do you have an example where it's splitted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I think they can be divided, simply because the cases will be instantly recognizable. I'll try to think of examples. But a postponed addition of the word "omnes" (all of them/ all of you/ all of us, as needed) is pretty common. Sometimes, students want to 'gather all related words' together, in translation: "all you merchants," for example. But it can be nice to see the postponement as functional: "you merchants, taken all together / all of you ..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EnliLin1

Could it be “you estimate the merchant’s prices”?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

No, because we would need the possessive (= genitive singular) mercatoris, for "the merchant's".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IPSEDIXIT3

The ‘mercatores' used here is actually the vocative pl. form (not nominative), since the 2nd person pl. 'aestimatis' indicates direct address, with the 'vos' being emphatic. Note also that the mood isn't imperative (which would be ‘aestimate’) so its meaning is definitely not “You, merchants, estimate the prices.” Imagine a speaker at a merchant consortium claiming: you all [merely] estimate prices… ego autem ea scio.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

To me, "You, merchants, estimate the prices" is a (somewhat wooden) equivalent--kind of a Latin-class translationese-- of the more natural, "You, merchants, are estimating the prices."

(Whether it's a nomin. in apposition to nominative Vōs , or vocative, is kind of a moot point, no, since they're identical in form?)

Yes, the verb form is an indicative, not an imperative ( = aestimāte !); the forms are quite distinct in Latin, and the imperative might be rendered in English as "Estimate the prices, merchants!" or " ... you merchants!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

How about "you merchants are evaluating the prices " as a possible translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

GIven that pretia are "what you pay" to buy something, couldn't the merchants be "estimating costs " (to them, of their merchandise)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SlavaBob

these two options make slightly more sense, but I'm still skeptical (if this is a real sentence from Ancient Rome).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

In modern English "the cost" is really different from "the price".

Cost: "is typically the expense incurred for a product or service being sold by a company".

If you want to evaluate the cost of a product, it means you evaluate everything you had to pay to acquire the product (in order to resell it).

With the "evaluation" process, it makes the "cost" and the "price" even more different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidColli125630

That's right, and if you look rich, the prices go up. The lesson? Dress down when shopping.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krllcr

As for me, the sentence makes sense if you put a comma in the translation after Vos.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gsp732649

i heard pretiae (which i dont think is even a word) instead of pretia so i typed it and got it right with a typo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gfldo

Hello,

You have the option to report answers that are accepted but you think should not be. It is one of the item on the list which pops up when clicking on the "Report" button.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aramis521071

You estimate the merchants prices


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EAni4
  • 1368

That would be "Vos mercatorum pretia aestimatis."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MoreiraCesar

There is not commas in Latin language?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gfldo

Hello,

Punctuation were not in use until several centuries after classical Latin. Although you can sometimes see in lapidary inscriptions some dots (that where possibly added later) which separate the words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yaux7ey6

Why not your merchants. That would sound mush bretter in my ears , greetings from Henry.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gfldo

Hello,

But it would not have the same meaning. In the sentence at hand, you are talking directly to the merchants. With "Your merchants...", you would be talking about a third party and the Latin sentence would be the following: "Mercatores tui pretia aestimant."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SyedMoheel

Vos mercatorem miserum interficiunt


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

If vōs is the subject, use interficitis . (Interficiunt means THEY are killing.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeodisMMXXI

This voice makes the best pronunciations!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wyattrox03

Couldnt merchants be accusative


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

In this sentence? Then you'd have "vos" as nominative, the subject of "aestimatis" (You all are estimating/evaluating/appraising), and--two accusatives?

You all are appraising the merchants/ the prices (?).

That makes no sense to me, but perhaps I'm missing the point.

(In general, of course a 3rd decl. masc. pl. noun like mercatores can function either as nominative pl. or accusative pl; but it has to be one or the other, in any particular sentence. Here, looks like it's nominative, in apposition to the pronoun vos : "You merchants are evaluating/estimating the prices/costs.")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yaux7ey6

Why not 'your merchants'. That would sound mush bretter in my ears, greetings from Henry.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

However, vōs does not have the meaning of possessive adjective "your."

vōs is a pronoun form meaning "you all," and must be in the vocative case in a sentence where the verb is a 2nd plural (-tis) form.

You need to use forms of tuus, tua, tuum ( = belonging to you, sing) or vester, vestra, vestrum ( = belonging to you, plur), if you want the meaning "your."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben115652

Does this sound accusatory and derogatory to anyone else?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gsp732649

ask Perce. his/her (i cannot genderize the handle) linguistic erudition is way out of my league and that person can prob pick up nuances like that. i guess gsp is not genderizable either but they are initials the mid one being for samuel my most frequently used appellation which is masculine making me less intelligent than over half the population. but i dont get anything derogatory here with no context. esne tu mercator?

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