Improved Norwegian Course: Now Available to 50% of Users
A/B Test Expanded
After being A/B tested on 50% of new users for a few months, the new course version is now available to 50% of all users. We're very excited about getting to share this tree with more of you!
But What Does That Mean for Me?
This means that half of you Norwegian veterans out there will be moved over to the new tree (Tree 4), while the other half will make up the control group and stay on the old tree (Tree 3) for 3-4 more months.
Information About the New Course
I wrote a rather extensive post about the new course when the first A/B test was rolled out, which you can find here:
Those who want to really get into the details of the course creation process can do so here:
Vocabulary list broken down by skill, generously provided by Fierycat:
How do I know if I have the new course?
If your first skill is named INTRO, you have the new course. If your first skill is named BASICS, you’re in the control group and still on the old course.
What will happen to my progress?
For unchanged skills, you will keep your progress. For skills that have had their vocabulary updated, your crown levels may be reset. However, you will still keep your total crown count, as a reflection of the work you put into the previous tree. Your tree should stay unlocked up until the skill you last completed, and all the knowledge you’ve gained is of course yours to keep. :)
I’m an advanced learner, is there anything for me in the early tree?
While you’ll probably want to test out of the first checkpoint or two, there’s actually some new content to be found pretty early. I believe the first brand new word appears in the Chatting skill. We’ve also added a bunch of new sentences, image exercises, and updated Tips & Notes sections.
A Call to Keyboards
Aside from the obvious structural changes and pretty pictures, the new tree also contains in excess of 5 000 new sentences, and you know what that means: 5 000 new sentences to process reports on and follow the sentence discussions for.
So, I'm asking for a little help from my friends and students:
Please help each other out in the sentence discussions when you can. Of course, you shouldn't answer questions you don't feel comfortable with, but pitch in when you do know the answer. Many of you already do, and it's a great help!
Please report any missing translations in the new content, following this guide: Reporting 101
Please post any other feedback you may have in this thread: Tree 4 Feedback Thread
På forhånd takk - og lykke til!
Really appreciate the hard work, thats been done here! On litte note on my experience: I normally do not check the forum that often (didn't know new tree v4 is in work, and just got a tiny box on my screen with little to no information about this change. Is it possible to link to this post on the forum for people who are getting the new trees? Would've been a great help :)
Takk! That's a great idea, but I'm afraid the update banner is out of my reach as a course contributor.
Takk! You're right; we're not thinking -that- far ahead yet.
Consider it fixed.
And so you did. Don't worry about pointing out the little things, we're perfectionists at heart - for better or for worse.
Yay, I've got new tree! It literally switched while I was doing a lesson :-) Thank you, I'm looking forward to working with it.
However, I have one question - I have some progressed skills all over the place (e.g. one lesson done in Objects skill and a lot of unlocked lessons above that - some slightly progressed), should it be like that? I feel like a bomb blew up in my tree throwing progress around ;)
Bare hyggelig! I'm pretty good with bombs. :)
Since skill progression is based on the words contained in the skill, and some words have moved around, it ends up looking a bit all over the place. It's working as intended, as it's only giving you credit for the words you've already learned, but the tree always unlocks up to the last "active" skill.
I have the new tree, and I'm grateful for all the efforts at improvement, although it did come as something of a shock and surprise! I had to hunt around for a while before finding this discussion that gave the first hint at what was going on. It would sure be great if there was some notice saying "Your tree has changed; click here for details". As squadack noted, it looks like a bomb went off in my tree. Now many units are shown as partially complete, with blank crown levels. I'm confused as to why the crown level is blank, even when the unit is shown as partially complete. Are they all at level 0 now? And what about the blue dots? I can see why the partially complete units have blue dots, but I have many units shown as complete, level 5, also with blue dots. If there are new things in that unit, shouldn't they now be incomplete? You say the blue dots will go away in a few days. That seems weird. It feels like I should have to (re)complete the unit to make the blue dot go away? Doesn't the blue dot mean that I should go do that unit again? Or am I not understanding what the blue dot means. Help, I am so confused! :-) I guess I will make a list of all my blue dots before they vanish... Please don't misinterpret this as complaining; I am really looking forward to 5000 new sentences! I'm just not sure how to proceed now. Back up and bring all my earlier units back to level 5?
The blue dots just means they added a small amount to the course as far as I can tell. Like a new word or maybe a new sentence. I have seen the new material by just doing a practice of the skill.
I think the reason they aren't showing blank is because the amount added is limited compared to whole skill and or the word may have been covered somewhere else.
If the colour of the skill is purple, that means it's still on crown level 0, and any progression is progression toward crown level 1. Do you have any skills of other colours without crowns?
The blue dots are a bit of a mystery to me too, if I'm honest. For a while, I thought that they marked skills that contained lexemes that were new to that skill - as opposed to new to the tree as a whole - but there are a few of skills that don't get blue dots even if they fill the criteria, "Actions" being one of them. Maybe they require 2+ "new" lexemes. It takes a critical mass of actually new lexemes (new to the tree) for a skill to lose crown levels, as they seem to be computed based on an average of the lexemes contained.
All skills do have new content in the form of new sentences, but for someone who's previously completed most of the tree I don't think it makes sense to start any earlier than the "Cafe" skill. Unless you miss being eaten by wolves and stating your gender, that is. :)
I thought that they marked skills that contained lexemes that were new to that skill - as opposed to new to the tree as a whole - but there are a few of skills that don't get blue dots even if they fill the criteria
I compared the blue dots on my tree with the lists posted by Semiraghe and Bruce640318 and it seems the blue dots are not the same for everyone. Maybe it depends on how well you've already learned the lexemes (that are now moved to another skill) before the tree changed?
Could be! Makes sense in cases where an old lexeme has been moved earlier in the tree, as some users will have learned it before and others not.
I suppose it's nice that they're tailored to each user, even if we don't have all the details of how exactly it's done.
Well, I do feel somewhat "comforted" knowing that even a moderator is confused! :-) All of my "bombed" units that got changed are now purple with a blank crown level, except one (the clock) which is red and shows crown level 3. Most of the changed units show some level of completion though, such as being 50% of the way to level 1, which means...? Hmm... not sure what that means. That I already know enough to have partly completely level 0?
It's interesting that the blue dots are not the same for everyone. I take all my units to level 5. I have been doing a "practice" round for each unit with a blue dot, and that makes the blue dot go away, one by one. And yes, the new content is obvious! And fun! (although embarrassing, when I get an audio word that I have never heard before, and I have to both guess what it means and how it is spelled.)
What about those of us who still have the old one?
Not feeling the love here. It's like there's a party and we're not invited.
You will likely stay on the old tree for 104 more days + whatever time Duo staff need to work their technical magic. 104 days is the standard testing period unless the test gives statistically significant neutral or positive numbers before that. Since we have a relatively small user base, it's not likely that we'll reach that point before the 104 days are up.
Honestly, I'd move you all over if I could, but the testing is done to make sure the new tree actually performs better. It makes sense to test rather than just take my word for it; I'm human too - I mess up sometimes! :)
The upside of being in the control group is that once you do get the new tree, the other half of the user base will have already reported most missing translations and inconsistencies, and so you get a smoother learning experience.
Thanks for your reply. Coincidentally, as you can see, I've been doing this course for exactly 104 days now. I'm sure everyone is doing their best to make it the best it can be, it's just a bit dispiriting. But hey ho.
When you say "performs better" - what are the control variables? Is it how long people stick with the tree? How well they recall what is presented?
The main things that are looked at for tree tests are daily active users, retention of users over time (people staying on Duo), and number of sessions (lessons) started and completed.
From a teacher's perspective, it would be much better if they could measure how well learners are learning and retaining the material as well, but that's a little trickier to do. It's something they're working on, and since you're learning Spanish too you may have taken checkpoint tests that are designed to measure just that.
There are some very obvious issues with these A/B tests, especially when it comes to testing trees with so much new content as Norwegian Tree 4. Basically, the first half of the test (new users only) is skewed in favour of the old tree with stable sentence fail rates and fleshed out alternative translations, while the second half of the test (old users too) gets skewed in favour of the new tree, because people are likely to do more lessons when there is new content - either because they're excited or because they're completionists.
Damn, I'm also still in the control group. :( I've been waiting for the new tree for ages. :P It's kind of funny because I can't get motivated at all to do more lessons because I know that some of my progress will be reverted when the new tree is introduced.
I don't think that any of your progress is actually "reverted". Some prior units will change to "partially complete" status if they now contain new words. But your progress is maintained because the units are not completely reset. I found one unit set back to level 0 at 33%, but I soon discovered that all the levels were at 33%.
Even if the progress shown on Duo is not the same after the tree is updated, your own progress and the things you have learned will still be here.
Unfortunately I didn't make it into this illustrious 50% but I am looking forward to getting the new course in a few months' time!
You are doing Gods work NORWEGIAN COURSE contributors. I really love you. I do <3
I got in! Love the new layout, surprising to see some of the lessons I've been doing early on to be so far down the skill tree.
Many skills in the early tree are shorter than they were before, so while you have to scroll farther down there may not actually be more lessons to go through to get there.
Having said that, some skills were too difficult to be taught as early as they were, and have been moved accordingly. We also moved some words earlier in the tree. For example, the Leisure skill contains a lot of easy cognates like "gitar" and "fotball" that were previously found in later skills like "Music" and "Sports".
Have fun with the new tree!
Tusen takk!! Thanks for making an already awesome course even better! I've been falling in love with Norwegian over the last 82 days! :-)
Bare hyggelig! Norwegian's got us all wrapped around her little finger.
Here are the skills that showed as having new lexemes when I got switched over so that you can go back and review them if you want, even after the blue dots disappear. I wasn't very far in the course so please add others below if you had progressed further.
This is my list of blue dots:
Intro, What?, Definites, Plurals, Present, The Cafe, Counting, Chatting, Family, Location, Restaurant, Adjectives, Location 2, Qualities, Ownership, The Store, Leisure, Present 2, Feelings, Vacation, Schedule, Traits, Community, Questions, Present 3, Imperative, Places, Infinit. 2, Animals 2, Requests, Time, Objects, The Home, Compounds, Bedroom, Hygiene, The Farm, Shopping, Marriage, Determ. 2, People, Adverbs 2, The Year, Present 4, Nature, V: Endings, Transport, Rel. Pron., School, Prediction, Hope, Compare, Past 2, Order, Pharmacy, Shapes, Travel, Small Talk, Europe, Abstract, Education, Past 3, Reactions, Numbers 2, Computers, The News, Nightlife, Verbs, Comparison, Pres. Per., Passive, Adj. 2, The World, Contrast, The Garden, Industry, Thought, Theater, The Museum, Children, Modals, Philosophy, V: Review, Destiny, Passive 2, Future, Sports, Exercise, Weather, Games, Literature, Abstract 2, Religion, Music, Emergency, Art, Politics, Health, Media, Illness, Government, Online, Law, Science, Crime, Wilderness, Traffic, Style, Identity, Business, Food 2, Emotions, Adverbs 3, The Body, Cooking, Tools, Romance, Adj. 3, Dessert, The Sea, Celebrate.
That's quite a lot. So it's time do do some more Norwegian lessons now :)
I also have blue dots for family, adjectives, qualities, colors, the store, leisure, present 2, feelings, work, schedule, traits, community, days, questions, present 3, the clock, places, animals 2, time, objects.
Jeg har uflaks! Jeg er fortsatt på tre 3. also, i'm not sure if that sentence was correct. Could you correct me?
While it's great to finally have the new tree, I'm also a bit confused with those blue dots everywhere. What exactly happens to skills that are shown as complete but have a blue dots? If I had for example a skill level X and new sentences were added, did it go back to level X-1? If I take lessons up to level X, will it only be the lessons that have been changed? Or will I have to also redo some lessons that haven't changed? Or is there a risk I won't do some of the new stuff? Basically, I would like to do all the new content and want to figure out how to do so before doing anything I've already done.
Anyway thanks for the hard work. I finished the old tree during the summer, and since then, I've been spreading my effort redoing lessons from both the Swedish and Norwegian courses... Going back to Swedish was hard because it's so boring compared to the Norwegian course and its fun(ny) sentences :D
I had many of the same questions. I complete all my skills to level 5 before moving on. All of my level 5 skills that now have blue dots have been reset to level 0, although most have level 0 set as partially complete (which seems almost pointless). There is one new skill, "The Clock", which was set a level 3 for me. I don't know how to explain that.
I only had some of the first skills at level 3, then most level 1 or 2. But I have overall not many skills level 0, and most of them are already partially completed. I guess that there aren't really any skill completely new but that the new skills are made from both old and new lessons.
Yes, that's correct. There are no skills with only new words (though there are a few lessons).
Hyggelig! I just saw this today... my tree looks pretty much revamped now. I am very excited about the new content! Thank you very much Norwegian team! Tusen takk! :-) And here's a handful of lingots for your great job.
(Edit: just noticed that my golden owl flew off with the update... not a big deal though, I'll make it again some day.)
I had just taken a look at the discussion page earlier today to check if there were any updates on when I would receive the new tree. And luckily just a few hours later I got it! Hurra! Og tusen takk for alt!
Bare hyggelig! I was complaining to another contributor about the test not being expanded today 15 minutes before it actually was, so I'm with you. :')
I think I'll do the same, considering Duo decided to push the new tree at 10 pm my time last night. :')
That was a great surprise this morning, I am happy about the new tree 🙂
Before the update all my skills were on crown level 4 or 5. Now there are 15 new skills at level 0 while all the others are still at level 4 or 5. I didn't expect that (I was expecting more lower level skills) and it's great because that means I can continue to do all the challenging level 4 lessons with lots of translation into the target language and also learn something new in addition to that.
Thanks a lot for all your work on the new tree!
For those who have already completed the tree, and the skills within it to roughly the same level, the new tree doesn't do as much "damage". Sure, words have shifted around between skills, but they have about the same word strength as before and it all evens out.
For those that hadn't already completed their tree, it's a different experience. Not much I can do about it, unfortunately, except assure them that the new content is all worth it.
With three topics across, the "tree" now looks like a DNA helix, so we now can finally see the twisty DNA of Norwegian. Congratulations on this milestone on getting the improved tree out.
Tusen takk! I'm quite pleased with the shape of it, even if it's a silly little detail.
50% chance ... the coin flip was on my side..
Standing before a wonderful new tree, så kult, like Christmas in September :)
Thousand thanks for your work!
Hopped on today to do my daily lessons and was met with the pleasant surprise of brand-new skills and lessons! A big thank you to the contributors to what is my very favorite Duo course! Tusen takk for alt dere gjør!
I wasn't terribly far into the course, but the things I've completed are slightly shuffled around and lots of completed lessons have blue dots. Should I go back and redo these lessons? I don't want to just go ahead and miss out on something if I'll be in the dark once I get to future lessons.
I think we're all a little in the dark about the blue dots, but I have been going back and doing a "practice" run on all blue dot units (most of mine are already at level 5 so all I can do is "practice"). There is definitely new content, and I assume that each unit builds on previous units, so it seems wise to go back and learn the new content.
Yeah, I noticed that as well. Not terribly far in, but Intro and What? had added Glad, Her, and Vet (I'm pretty sure Her was new). Now it's not difficult to learn these words, cause they're fairly simple and there's few, but I would LOVE if there was some list of the new words added to groups. It's very nice they're updating and working on the course, though! Always room to improve all things :)
Yes, "vet" was new, and I got it for the first time as an audio (type what you hear), so I had to totally guess what they were saying and how to spell it. I didn't do too badly: I typed in "vett" and it only counted as a typo. :-)
But now I am concerned that I have only seen "vet" two times, so it is not very firmly stuck into my brain yet.
Wow what a suprise just before going to bed! I can't wait to check out all the new sentences and words tomorrow. Thank you guys for keeping this course fresh <3
Stories are a staff project for now (and possibly forever). We don't have access to the infrastructure, so we can't make any.
Huh, was wondering why some of the things changed, I tought I was going crazy lol Quick question, when will the Norwegian tips and notes be available in the app? Tusen takk for everything you do!
Apparently, the Tips and Notes are "incompatible" with the app. But, as Deliciae has pointed out on the other discussion, you can switch over to the browser version to get to the Tips and Notes. It seems an obvious solution when she points it out, but I hadn't even considered it.
I guess I am really not lucky, I still don’t have it, and it is the same with another of the languages I am learning with duo. I guess the new Norwegian course will be my Christmas present xD As always, thank you for your hard work! I’m looking forward to this :)
This is ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤. I kept learning through the same tree over and over again to solidify the vocabulary and forms present in that tree and thus reached level 5 in some of them. Now, even though I'm supposed to know everything from level 5 trees, now I need to practice them again, because now they feature entirely NEW vocabulary which wasn't present before. Now I don't know what I need to repeat and what I'm confident with. To be short - you devastated my careful personal learning progress and basically I would need to start from scratch in order to get to know every new stuff that has been added.
I understand that it can be frustrating to have things added and shuffled around, but learning new vocabulary is a big part of language learning.
Updating a course is hard work, so we only do so when we feel it actually adds value. We also make sure not to push new course versions too often; there's always been at least a year between each one.
I promise you that the new tree is an improvement, and hope you'll give it a chance. :)
I guess I will give it chance - I'm inclined to learn Norwegian nevertheless. That "frustration" part is the essential part of the current outcome, but I hope I will adapt. Thanks for the insight!