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  5. "Pocula ante auroram exhaurio…

"Pocula ante auroram exhaurio."

Translation:I drain the cups before dawn.

September 6, 2019

33 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/teacon7

This guy's ellision is so good that I had no idea what he said. I think I got the sentence eventually ... not because I learned to hear ellision in words, but because I got to know that specific sentence in other formats. Thus, the heavy ellision, while quite impressive, isn't really accomplishing much in terms of teaching. perhaps this could be an advanced lesson wherein everything is pronounced, ellided together, and the test is whether you can figure out what it says or not. That might be useful pedagogically. As it is, this was just a process of learning the practice sentence far too well. Thanks to the audio team, but please redo or reconsider. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacopoSannazaro

Duolingo hasn't thought us what elision is - hence the confusion - I hope they fix that problem. I had no idea Latin has an elision like French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

I assumed that he was eliding the final -um of poculum before ante; I had no idea that he was eliding the final -a of pocula. In other words, there was no marker (for me) of the multiple cups that he was drinking, so I gave the singular form.

Audio seems ambiguous, to me, between pocula and poculum, both of which final syllables could be elided before the a- of ante.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Why it's not good, if elision is a Latin thing?

It was...

We know it with the verse in poetry for instance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

It's definitely a good thing to do, since it was a Latin thing, as you say.

But so were the different tenses of the indicative (we've only seen the present!), the subjunctive, the passive indicatives, subjunctives and infinitives (we've only seen bits of the deponent verbs), not to speak of the participles--ablative absolute, anyone?

The question, as always, is the sequence; and the scope of the course, which (so far) seems extremely limited--hardly any genitive, dative and ablative (other than igne deleo, and a few prepositional phrases).

How much should beginners be expected to grasp, and in what order, etc. ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

It's only a beta course, they only added the present on purpose, I believe. More is to come. I don't know when, but it's not the definitive state of this course.

I'm like you, I want to reach level 25 now I have finished the tree, and there's a lot I wanted to learn. But they won't add more content until the big problems of this beta course are fixed. It seems logical to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OdysseusRx

MEHERCULE--this one needs the audio redone, mea sententia. You can't hear the initial P sound, and I heard "occulant te auroram exaudio", which, with broken heart and trepidatious foot, I submitted, fully at a loss as to what was wanted of me. And I felt wanting. Please fix.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonnythedog

Oh! Ulysses! - may I call you Ulysses? - too sad... Lingot!

Keep Ithaca always in your mind:

Arriving there is what you're destined for.

however, let your road be a long one, to learn and go on learning, on your way...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

You call him with a Latin name when he is a Greek?
Shameful...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trillian20

This is the Latin course, but you do have a point. If his name is Odysseus, then he should be called Odysseus.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Though the Romans used the form Ulixes, Ulixis, m., for that character.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/estevam56

I don't know if the audio has been corrected, but it sounds perfect. Maybe you think you can't hear the P because it's not aspirated in Latin. The intitial P has a strong sound in English, it's /pʰ/, but in Latin it's just /p/, like in Romance languages, much softer. And exhaurio sounds fine too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John481518

It does not sound perfect to me. It sounds to me like he is saying Poculan teauroram or some such.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacopoSannazaro

The audio does NOT include "ANTE." That word is not audible!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

It does, just blends in, sounds more like poculan te auroram.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacopoSannazaro

It has NOT been established that elision is required in Latin. As far as I can remember, Duolingo never explicitly taught us that. (if I'm wrong - what lesson was it?)

I had no idea Latin has an elision like French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

https://latin.stackexchange.com/questions/51/when-can-i-perform-an-elision

A non elision is a "hiatus".

Wikipedia "hiatus" page:

In Greek and Latin poetry, hiatus is generally avoided, although it does occur in many authors under certain rules with varying degrees of poetic licence.

So, yes, elisions are Latin.

And pocul'ante seems right. English speakers may have some trouble to understand that, but in many languages, it's the way they talk. Hiatus are not musical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacopoSannazaro

The confusion here stems from the fact that this beta course never taught us what elision is and when to use it; however I understand this course is still under construction.

From you have said - is elision in Latin is exclusive to poetry? If I were to read the Latin philosophical writings of Descartes out load, would there be the need for the usage of elision?

In spoken French, the context (poetry or prose) does NOT matter since elision is phonetically mandatory.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

There are two different questions here. One is, do people use elision in Latin prose today; to which the answer is, not in my experience, in the schools/colleges I'm familiar with. The other is, did the Romans make elisions in real life, and in delivering speeches, in addition to what they did in poetry, and I would assume the answer is Yes, especially as Cicero somewhere (in De Oratore, probably?) talks about how they avoid certain combinations of consonants, to avoid sounds that are similar to obscenities and so forth.

(In that case, it would be as if, in English, we always wrote "cannot" and "is not", but pronounced them as "can't" and "isn't."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

JacopoSannazaro: Classical Latin was a language of elision; it was essential to poetic meter. Cicero states in Orator 44.150: quod (the sound of a phrase) quidem Latina lingua sic observat nemo ut tam rusticus sit qui vocales nolit coniungere. At issue is perhaps the distinction between Cicero's understanding of urbanitas (refinement, esp. a refined wit) vs rusticus.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VictoriaSD22

Does exhaurio have more a sense of draining a cup through drinking it, or through dumping out its contents?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

My best guess is "drink it all up," since it's used in metaphorical senses (draining of blood, ingesting all the poison; of the sea gulping down vessels), and it's the verb for "using up" (perf. pass. ptcpl. exhaustus, a, um--whence 'exhaust') in other contexts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VictoriaSD22

Thank you! A lingot for you :) These are my first two forum comments and my first lingot given away, even though I've used Duolingo for four years... maybe it's time to get out of my shell.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Gratias tibi ago! So very kind of you!!


[deactivated user]

    The "ante" seems swallowed or otherwise lost. Notwithstanding a few minor problems like this, I thoroghly enjoy and appreciate the Duolingo team's fine work!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yana541192

    This guy is hard to understand!! Is this a beginners course or ....


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/99Y9OhGs

    Die Aussprache und Betonung der lateinischen Wörter sind eine Katastophe.Die Wörter lassen sich phonetisch nicht unterscheiden und man ist überrascht, wie das wirklich heißen sollte. So macht das Lernen keinen Spaß. Man quält sich von Level zu Level, weil man nicht aufgeben möchte. Man hat schließlich ein Ziel, sonst würde man sich irgendwann bei duo-lingo gar nicht mehr einloggen!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

    You could just deactivate the speaking exercises.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveSwart1

    'Empty the cups...' should be accept. .


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacopoSannazaro

    "Does prodelision in Latin just happen in verse, or can it appear in classical prose (e.g. Ciceronian), too?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

    Nocte in tegulis?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArielMedin948128

    The system says, "Poculan te auroam exhaurio." I am really sure if that is correct.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasonGilli14

    Sounds like you might be an alcoholic, Duo.

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