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"Who is this?"

Translation:مَن مَعي؟

September 7, 2019

48 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prero

"Min ma3ii" - Why this word all of a sudden for "this"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Djibril487949

Yes this is very odd. This sentence has been translated as /man haadhaa/ or /man huwwa/ in the past. I don't recall ever having been taughy /ma3ii/ anywhere...

Random.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Djibril487949

I guess "معي" is the preposition with we've seen before, so this means literally "who is (this) with me?" or something? Still irritating that this was never taught before AND is not offered in the tips either...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maris349687

Not 'min' but 'man' = who


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/m1anas

Who is with me=مَن مَعي؟ This is a wrong translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AfrozaMehz

this is wrong // ma3ii //means with me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TinoAriza

To those posting previously and complaining -- I'm hitting this with a telephone-topic lesson -- in that context, it seems to make sense, like "who is (this talking) with me (on the phone)?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Yes. And, like the English, there's no indication of gender.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirKarout

The problem is not to identify the gender but the sentance translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

I didn't think identifying the gender was a problem. I was just pointing out that this seems to be a way, in Arabic, of asking the identity of someone whose sex you don't know. Quite a useful thing to be able to say. Although, I see that Away54 has usefully indicated that in such cases one can use the masculine. And this accords with other languages, eg, in French, "Le masculin l'emporte sur le féminin". Although this is becoming contentious, and for anyone who's interested, see http://www.slate.fr/story/153492/manifeste-professeurs-professeures-enseignerons-plus-masculin-emporte-sur-le-feminin I don't suppose there's any such movement in the Arab world.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

If we look into the lesson, it seems the Course contributors want us to practice the phone conversation. This "من معي" statement is after we said "ألو" (when we make a call by using our phone). So it can mean "Who is this?" and literally "Who is with me?"

Note: About gender, we have a verse in Qur-2aan,

قوله تعالى : الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ ... (النساء : ٣٤)

So it's not only Arab World but also Islamic World. Interestingly, Arabic fuSa (that follows "maa ismuka" and "maa ismuki", instead of Slangs like "-ak" and "-ik") is used around the world.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Katie,

For "من معي؟" with the meaning "who is this?", the answer is YES, it's only in the phone call.

In other occasions, the meaning can be different. In the group's discussion/forum, "من معي؟" can mean "who agrees with me?" or something like that.

I hope it's clear now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Katie,

(1) It's interesting as I've encountered "ألو" several times and "من معي؟ " twice (in two different forums) in this lesson package ot the tree skill.

(2) We may say " من معي؟ " and " من هذا؟ " in a phone call.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

لا شُكْرَ : there is no gratitude

على واجبٍ : for a duty

Some people don't like to say this statement as it has a bad literal meaning: "Every good deed doesn't need to be grateful."

Perhaps, in English it's like "No need to say thanks", "It's nothing", "There's nothing at all", "Forget it" or something like that. [Please correct me if I'm wrong]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thanks, Away54. Strange that I haven't come across لو, when you have. But my question was whether you would say من معي ONLY in a telephone context, not whether you could also say من هٰذا on the telephone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

لا شكر على واجب

You're welcome!

Ok Katie I correct it. By the way, you have also made a typo in your previous comment. It's "ألو" aluu (hello like in French) and not "لو" lau (if).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Two things: I suppose لا شكر علي واجب means "you're welcome"? But I can't work out how it works literally. Could you help me with that please? Secondly: that wasn't a typo, it was a mistake! Thanks for pointing it out. I'm always grateful for corrections.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Katie,

(1) Yes, you're correct! I've edited my comment. "شُكرٌ" is gratitude (or grateful thing) as grateful is adjective while gratitude is noun. So the literal meaning is "there is no gratitude for any duty [good deed]". And some people say it's not a good meaning.

(2) Yes, at least there are eight meanings of "على" -- if I'm not wrong. One of them is "on" like Duo said. It's the most likely meaning. But, here "على" means "for".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thank you very much. Please forgive me for going on about this, but 1) There seems to be a damma on the R at the end of شُكْ رَ. Is that right? It doesn't sound like a "u" to me. So it's an (abstract) noun formed from the adjective? If I remember, ancient Greek does that too, but prefixing it with a neuter article. Someone might correct me...
But if the literal meaning is "there is no gratitude for any duty", that could mean that people are not/never grateful for something done out of duty". Could it mean something like "there is no need for gratitude for (?)". If واجبٍ means duty, that implies you only did your good deed because you had to. That can't be right? 2) You had said, "Perhaps, in English it's like "No need to say thanks", "It's nothing", "There's nothing at all", "Forget it" or something like that. [Correct me if I'm wrong]" so I'll make suggestions. I think "forget it" can be a bit dismissive (perhaps it's less so in US) - it's also used to cut short an argument impatiently; but you could say eg Don't mention it; not at all; (it's) my pleasure. Perhaps other native English speakers might add to this list. Bear in mind that US may differ from England. (And I mean England. Wales and Scotland may have their variations. I'm sure (Northern) Ireland does.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Katie,

(1) The word "شكر" (shukr) in "لا شكرَ" is in the fatHa ending: "شكرَ" ("shukra") and not Damma "شكرٌ" ("shukrun") because "لا" in this sentence is "لا النفية للجنس" laa that denies everything, which makes the fatHa ending for the word after the "laa". It's like in the following sentence:

"لا الهَ إلا الله"

You can hear this sentence from a Muslim, oftentimes.

[I don't know the term in English for this "laa". I've limited understanding about English terms. Also, each language has its own specific term.]

For "واجب": YES it can mean what you've said, "You did good things because you had to". But, it's not always meant like that. It's something like a connotation. (Note that not all good deeds are a mandatory).

Please see here: https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/%D8%B9%D9%81%D9%88%D9%8B%D8%A7-%D9%84%D8%A7-%D8%B4%D9%83%D8%B1-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89-%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AC%D8%A8.2082253/

Or here: http://alrai.com/article/543066.html

In addition, please read here (it's a nice review from some scholars/experts who doesn't like this sentence): https://www.darulfatwa.org.au/ar/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B0%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%84%D8%A7-%D8%B4%D9%83%D8%B1-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89-%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AC%D8%A8/

By the way, both of us have made some typos (or mistakes). For example, it is "على" alaa and not "علي" aaliy. Then, it is شكر and not "شك ر". -- I've corrected my typos (mistakes).

(2). YES, that's what I meant. Thanks for your suggestions. That's why I had said "Please correct me ..." as I didn't know how we say the English variations of "you're welcome" in each region.

P.S: If you know how to make a new thread, I'll be glad as our comments are too much here :))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thanks, Away54. But you say, "If we look into the lesson, they want us to practise phone conversation." What do you mean by "look into the lesson"? We haven't had ألو in this lesson, have we? Second question: would one say من معي to mean, "who is this?" only on the telephone? In other contexts, where you can see the person you are asking about, would it be من هٰذا ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thank you very much, Away54. Very useful. Incidentally, it's "who agrees with me?" "Who" is always singular, though it's not always logical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thanks, Away54, but I still don't quite understand. Could you give me another translation for لا شُكرَ ? "There is no grateful" doesn't make sense to me. Could it be, "There is no need for gratitude"? or "don't thank me"? I'm interested in the literal meaning. And could you explain علي واجبٍ? From what we've done so far in DuoLingo, علي means "on" (usually "on the tap" :) ). Has it got a different meaning here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Well, you say, "So it's not Arab World but Islamic World." But the issue wasn't the relation between men and women, but a linguistic matter - whether the masculine (gender, not sex) has priority over the feminine (gender, not sex). In French this has been the case for about four centuries, but may be changing back. And because it's a linguistic question, that's why I said "the Arab world", not "the Islamic world". There are Arabic speakers who are not Muslim, and Muslims whose language is not Arabic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

Katie,

It's because you said, "... any such movement in Arab world."

I just want to elaborate something (because it has made me interested): "the language rules and faith principles have a lot of correlations." :))

But, I couldn't explain this further here.


Perhaps, I've made some grammatical English errors.

Okay, thanks for notifying this! I've edited my statement to solve this. I think I know the correct term. How about now?

Hope there's no issue left :))


To be noted that: النحو (in short, it is the science of Arabic grammar) was formed years after Islam came (because the Arabic eloquence of their new generations had been reducing at that time). And, they used many Quranic verses to explain the principles of the language.

So, can we say "it was Islam then has been influencing Arab World in general"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BadExampleMan

why does the answer flag the masculine هٰذا as a typo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hasna777869

There is no correct options.. smg


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaxwellSil764443

For everyone confused, it may help to think of this as literally closer to this excessively polite way of answering the telephone in English: "With whom am I speaking?" (or less formally, "who am I speaking with?"). Agreed, though, that the app should make this way clearer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Very good explanation, MaxwellSil, thanks. Or, in UK, we might say, "Who am I speaking to?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zakaria915699

هذه points out a female person (haathihi) هدا a masculine person haatha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RMous

and if you don't know whether the anonymous person is either masculine or feminine?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Away54

RMous,

If we don't know whether the anonymous person is either masculine or feminine, then we use هذا (which means "this" for masculine).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maris349687

The translation should be: Who is with me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamirKarout

Who is this? In Arabic means: "من هذا أو من هذه؟ but not "من معي؟" which means who is with me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Away54 has explained, above, that من معي؟ is how you could say, "who is this?" on the telephone. And the advantage is that you don't have to guess the sex of the other speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbsorbedBark10

من هذه = who's this. من معي = who's with me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Yes, but Away54 has explained, above, that من معي؟ is how you could say, "who is this?" on the telephone. And the advantage is that you don't have to guess the sex of the other speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sam2007-2021

To everyone, this phrase is an expression in Arabic. So it DOESN'T mean who is with me, but it MEANS who is this. Just think that why we don't say, who are you, on telephone but we say Who is this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Khalid300171

Yes, this is incorrect. Duolingo people need to correct this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PanuMartis

All of this waa new, never had i been taught these words in previous lessons :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean599738

Once again, this is their way of making you buy this. I wanted to, but i wantdd to see which is better...(there are at least 5 apps but thd multi language option is nice...still no Persian..interesting...indeed, but klingon...i guess being an outcast at an already nerdy comic con is more important than a 350M person language) also, a quick warning or instruction would help, thats two big reasons (plus i have no idea how much one can learn) so 3, i havent bought 12months. Convince me duolingo. You annoy me enough, i have 3 lousy questions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean599738

No Persian, (babbel too), could have to do with who runs the app. To add insult to injury, there are several sub million person languages...whatever your grugde leave Iranians out of it...and the many who want to learn it. I guarantee it would have been easier to find Persian(Farsi) teachers than knocking on some dudes moms house and asking for a Klingon teacher to emerge from the basement (comic guy from Simpsons) with crusty chip dip on his sweatpants (could only be a dude, this is a good thing ladies) and an x files shirt. (3x too small) ...Really?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean599738

Quechua too, at least 2.7 M speak it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isolde734128

Isn't it... Who is with me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abdulelah2020

اعتقد السؤال واضح من هذا؟ فيا ترى هل تأتي بمعنى من معي؟ افيدونا من جواهر معلوماتكم


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kreiderart

I tend to agree with these comments that this answer is a mistake because ma3ii means "with me"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

DavidKreid2, are you referring to "who is this?" But Away54 told us, "For "من معي؟" with the meaning "who is this?", YES it's only in the phone call." So it's not a mistake, but it's a bit rough of Duolingo to expect us to know that the context was the beginning of a telephone conversation.

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