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- "I have received a pair of th…
"I have received a pair of them."
Translation:Ne ho ricevute un paio.
61 Comments
Because "pair of them" in this case are of female gender in plural (something like "the two shirt / Le due maglie" )
Ho ricevuto le due maglie. // Ne ho ricevute un paio.
I'm not sure though, if we're translating from the English then there's no way to know whether the arbitrary "them" is masculine or feminine. Besides, "un paio" is itself masculine singular, which led me to believe that "ricevuto" ought to be correct.
I guess it's because "ne" replaces something plural (un paio [di something plural]), so the participle has to agree with whatever its replacing. But like you say, there's no way of telling whether it's masculine or feminine.
Persona 1: Hai ricevuto un paio di libri?
Persona 2: Sì, ne ho ricevuti un paio.
1: Anche hai ricevuto un paio di maglie?
2: Sì, pure ne ho ricevute un paio.
100
I agree maglie are sweaters, and camicia is a shirt ... there is a difference that duolingo does not seem to be aware of
- 155
My understanding is that the lines are a bit different than in English, so there are items which an English speaker might call "a shirt" that an Italian speaker might call "una maglia."
Here's another comment on the topic I found helpful:
- 403
Yes, Dan is correct. Un paio is masculine singular and so 'Ne ho ricevuto un paio' was accepted. It makes me wonder whether DL answer is correct.
I disagree. The NE says of them which can be femininum plural or masculinum plural so either ''ricevute'' or ''ricevuti''. Both are accepted and correct.
- 1189
There is no way for us to tell what has been received but, - when 'ne' (of them) is used in 'passato prossimo' the ending of the past particle 'ricevuto' (received) should reflect the number and gender of the object.
Possible object --> Translation
'i libri' p.m. --> Ne ho ricevuti . .
'le chiave' p.f. --> Ne ho ricevute . .
'i pantaloni' s.m. --> Ne ho ricevuto . .
- 620
My dictionary says: pantalóni sostantivo maschile plurale. So shouldn't it be: i pantaloni --> Ne ho ricevuti . . ?
As Emile mentioned correctly, i pantaloni is NOT singular, as you can see from the use of the masculine plural article 'i' instead of singular 'il'. I pantaloni is one of these words that take the plural even when talking about just one pair. (presumably because one pair has two legs ;) )
- 944
The word pantaloni is indeed masculine plural, however un paio di pantaloni (a pair of trousers) is singular (one group of two things), so
"ho ricevuto un paio di pantaloni"
would be correct, if a pair of trousers was the object of the sentence.
However, when you substitute the things with "ne" to mean "of them", you're no longer referring to the pair as the object, but the individual things themselves (the trousers, plural), so
"ne ho ricevuti un paio" would be the correct construction, when the 'them' referred to by ne were trousers.
We know that ne means of them in this case, because it's the only thing that makes sense with "I have received a pair". You wouldn't say a pair of it, a pair of some, a pair of any, or a pair of none.
This exercise complicates things because it is a sentence fragment without specifying what the 'them' are, so all you see is "un paio", with no obvious connection as to why the plural form of ricevuto is expected.
https://ciaoitaliablog.wordpress.com/classes/the-italian-ne
https://www.thoughtco.com/using-ne-in-italian-4074179
The forum discussion on the companion exercise to this one (Italian to English) has a more detailed explanation by Signor Formica.
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/397729/Ne-ho-ricevute-un-paio
There is currently an error; depending on the gender of the noun you are referring to, "ricevuti" or "ricevute" could be correct.
- 620
Ne ho ricevuto un paio is accepted. If I understand above comments correctly this should be an error?
That's what I used. My reasoning was "paio" is masculine. "I have received a pair (of them)." Accepted 3.20.19. Good question.
- 1974
No, what was received was "un paio" of them is simply descriptive of un paio. Thus the ho ricevuto is correct pero' ricevute may also be correct.
- 591
Some assistance with grammar, per favore. :-) My understanding is that when the 'helper' verb is avere, the participle does not agree with the subject or number (whereas if the helper verb is essere, the participle does agree with the gender and number. So: ho ricevuto, hai ricevuto, ha ricevuto, abbiamo ricevuto, avete ricevuto, hanno ricevuto. So why is ricevute (presumably the feminine plural) accepted when the helper verb is based on avere? Thanks!
- 1470
Since others may care, I'll answer even though this was asked a year ago.
When the helper verb is essere then the participle must have agreement (in gender and number) with the subject.
When the helper verb is avere then the participle must be masculine singular unless there is a direct object before the verb (ne in this case). If a direct object precedes the verb, then the participle must have agreement with the direct object.
Just to add a complication the word pair in English is singular, despite being a collecting noun. Hmmm.
- 1805
Both ricevuto (which is what I put) and ricevute is accepted. I am not sure why either is considered correct...it should be one or the other but I put ricevuto as I think of "pair" as singular which is how it is considered in English. I assume ricevuti would be correct also if the pair of whatever is being spoken about is masculine.
- 1191
Perhaps 'ne' could be singular in this sentence, as in 'a pair of trousers', I received one pair of trousers, which is a single item. Just a thought.
In British English, "pair" and other collective nouns can be conjugated as plurals, but not in American English.
It seems that ne has to come at the beginning of this sentence. Why? What is the rule?
It comes before the verb ("ho" in this case). Same as most direct and indirect object pronouns. Clitic pronouns, as Duolingo calls them ("me", "te", "si", "vi", "ci", etc), since they're attached to the verb.
- 1974
The noun: un paio, of them, for them, of pants etc. are descriptive of the object of the sentence; "un paio". But according to what i read here there seems to be some ambiguity on which form of the p.p. to use. Duo, and perhaps the language is permissive on this point?
But "A pair" is singular, even if a pair is made of two things. It's ONE pair.
I wrote "Io ne ho ricevute un paio" and it returned an error - should that be allowed?
- 1470
"Ne" is a pronoun for "of them." You don't have to use the pronoun. You can add "di loro" to the end instead of "ne" at the beginning. If you do that then there is no direct object before the verb and the participle must be masculine singular (with avere).
In one of the present perfect discussions someone suggested a great website for verb conjugations. Please post the link again.
- 266
If I read correctly, when we use the present perfect, we don't need to agree in number and gender with the first person. Did I read that correctly?
- 100
what exactly does 'NE' mean? when I look up the word it just seems to mean NEITHER yet that is not how it seems to be used..anyone?
"né" with the accent is the one that means "neither" or "nor".
"ne" without the accent is a pronoun, as explained by previous comments.
As has been said at least 3 times before in previous comments, "ne" translates to "of them" or "of it".
T8cLqx4z - "...why not ricevuto to agree with un paio - we have no idea what it's a pair of!
Maybe because a pair = 2 of something, which is plural.
While "a pair" in English may be considered singular, it describes a quantity of two, which is plural.
"When ne is used in the past to replace a noun used with an expression of quantity, the past participle agrees in gender and number with the noun ne is replacing."
To me! That only says, " I have received a pair. And what is the Ne, for.
