"I do not have any on the table."
Translation:Non ne ho alcuno in tavola.
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I'm not Italian but I have noticed that when alcuno is in the object position (and means any) and the sentence is in the negative, ne = of it is always inserted before the verb, but never translated into English. But when alcuno is in the subject position (and means some) it stands alone
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Could you explain further on the use of "ne" Susan? My question was more around the use of "a" and not "sul" but, I appreciate your native speaking opinion. Thank you!
"Ne" means "of it". So although the English doesn't say "of it", it is implied. "I don't have any (of it) on the table."
Good point! The phrase would seem to work as well without "ne" The inclusion of "ne" would suggest that the original English sentence should read "I do not have any of them on the table." Have you tried reporting it?
Here "ne" means "of them / it". It is not needed in English but is in Italian.
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Carol, this lady is really good and provides a thorough explanation on "simple prepositions": https://www.google.com/search?q=learn+italian+for+travel%3A+simple+prepositions&rlz=1C1GCEV_enUS833US833&oq=learn+italian+for+travel%3A+simple+prepositions&aqs=chrome..69i57.19135j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8. She has loads of really good videos in English.
can table be 'tavolo' and not 'tavola' in this case? What is the difference anyway?
it is my understanding that Tavolo is the piece of furniture, and Tavola is the table set for dinner
I'm very curious about this as well. (I screwed up and put "sul tavola" which is a gender mismatch.) I counted the number of hits for Google searches on various combinations of in/su tavolo/tavola:
"tavolo"=24,500,000
"tavola"=20,900,000
"sul tavolo"=1,850,000
"in tavola"=1,410,000
"su tavola"=843,000
"sulla tavola"=659,000
"nella tavola"=236,000
"nel tavolo"=128,000
"su tavolo"=94,400
"in tavolo"=63,800
The usage seems very idiosyncratic to me. Any native speakers care to comment?
Thanks a lot! It sounds as though il tavolo is the physical furniture; tavola is the dining experience (at table, set or prepare table, come to table, etc.), singular and often used without "la."
Tavolo is any kind of table and 'on the table' would correctly be 'sul tavolo'. However DL has used 'tavola' which is the family table used for eating meals. 'Sulla tavola' is completely wrong
La cena è in tavola = Dinner is on the table.
Il pranzo è pronto tutti a tavola = Lunch is ready everyone to the table.
Tables in restaurants are called Tavolo. Vorrei prenotare un tavolo per due per favore. = Can I book ( reserve) a table for two please.
In negative sentences, alcun/alcuno/alcuna is always singular and equivalent to nessun/nessuno/nessuna; the effect is similar to how in English you don't have "any" apples, rather than "some" apples. In positive sentences, you can't use either, and instead you can use the plural alcuni/alcune, the partitive article (still with plural), or "qualche" with singular.
Rather than wrong, it changes the meaning to "I do not have some on the table"; you could be saying you're slightly offended that someone thought you didn't have any or had few.
Not much, I think they are just a different way to say the same thing. By the way it is "sul tavolo" or "sulla tavola"
EDIT: I saw somewhere that "tavolo" is the piece of furniture and "tavola" usually refers to the table when it is prepared to eat or a chart. (among other things) Still, you want to "prenotare un tavolo" not "tavola".
Il pranzo è in tavola. Venite tutti a tavola, è pronto. Su tavola non si dice, ma le mele sono sulla tavola
Patience is wearing thin with the "sul" and "in" tavola. I just can't get the hang of it.
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Both are correct but it is sulla tavola or in tavola for on the dinner table and sul tavolo for on the table(piece of furniture).
I think qualsiasi is any as in whichever, alcuno is any as in any of sth. In English they are homonyms, unlike in many other languages.
I know one instance is when you're answering a question such as
'which way should I go?' -> 'any way is fine' 'Quale strada prendo?' -> 'Qualsiasi va bene'
Or
'Which type of ice cream do you prefer?' -> 'any type' 'Che tipo di gelato preferisce?' -> 'qualsiasi'
I suppose i am wrong but it would have looked better, to me ,if we replaced "alcuno" by " nessuno" here. Am i wrong??
Hmmm... I believe 'nessuno' would mean something like 'none' rather than 'any' and they're asking for 'any'. Just a guess.
On the plate = "nel piatto" On the table = "in tavola"
Can somebody please explain the apparent inconsistency
I don't understand the difference between alcuna (which up til now i thought meant 'some'), nulla and qualsiasi. Anyone have any insight?
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I will try. Any in English can mean both some or whichever one but this is not always the case with other languages such as Italian. For any one, whichever one you use qualsiasi in Italian. Alcuna means some in a positive sentence but any(of something) in a negative sentence. It's the same concept in English. For example in English you would say "I have some but I don't have any . We don't say "I don't have some." So far for Nulla , we have seen it in a negative sentence and it meant anything . Non vedo nulla. I don't see anything. I hope this is useful.
Why is non ne ho ALCUNI in tavola not also correct - it could be referring to more than one thing, in English anyway
Prepositions are pretty illogical in most languages, sadly. Kind of like how we like to say "I'm in bed" even though we're technically on it
If, as everyone seems to say, "tavolo" is for the furniture and "tavolA" is for the dining experience, then why is TavolA correct. And IN tavola is goofy. I understand "Tutti a tavolA" for getting people to the table, but .... Oh, well, I'll just put what DL wants and move on.
"ne" should translate by "of them" in English. Or "Non ho alcuno in tavola" should be accepted also.
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puzzled! the 'any' sounds more plural to me than singular. How can I know which one it is. It couldn't be any apple (s) or any fork (s) help
All correct but used used tavolo rather than tavola. Thought the latter was used when the table was a gathering for a meal. Not specified here. Was this a DL error or is there something I'm missing?
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Why in tavola if we need to specifically say on the table? Why sul tavolo doesn't work here?
What is there about this sentence to indicate that the translation should be 'tavola' and not 'tavolo'?
"Non ne ho alcuno in tavolo" marked incorrect - can anyone explain why?