"I do not have any on the table."

Translation:Non ne ho alcuno in tavola.

April 20, 2013

84 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jackie.Bowers

Why is "ne" necessary here? Is it just idiomatic?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilZam

I'm not Italian but I have noticed that when alcuno is in the object position (and means any) and the sentence is in the negative, ne = of it is always inserted before the verb, but never translated into English. But when alcuno is in the subject position (and means some) it stands alone


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susannaara2

I'm Italian... The sentence does not have meaning..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mil533515

Susan, how would you translate this ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angie922492

Could you explain further on the use of "ne" Susan? My question was more around the use of "a" and not "sul" but, I appreciate your native speaking opinion. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaBuzza

Perché, non ho niente sulla tavola, è sbagliato? Avrebbe anche più senso


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markandrew

It's the same in French


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LazyLauraMaisey

"Ne" means "of it". So although the English doesn't say "of it", it is implied. "I don't have any (of it) on the table."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris123456

Good point! The phrase would seem to work as well without "ne" The inclusion of "ne" would suggest that the original English sentence should read "I do not have any of them on the table." Have you tried reporting it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LisaKropp

I completely agree, it should include "of them" in the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

maybe the of them is impied


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sonrisa20

Non ne ho sul tavolo is accepted January 2020.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/STUckSTUdent

Here "ne" means "of them / it". It is not needed in English but is in Italian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarolPapal1

I thought the Italian word "in" meant "in" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/march

can table be 'tavolo' and not 'tavola' in this case? What is the difference anyway?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

it is my understanding that Tavolo is the piece of furniture, and Tavola is the table set for dinner


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tikidog

I'm very curious about this as well. (I screwed up and put "sul tavola" which is a gender mismatch.) I counted the number of hits for Google searches on various combinations of in/su tavolo/tavola:

"tavolo"=24,500,000

"tavola"=20,900,000

"sul tavolo"=1,850,000

"in tavola"=1,410,000

"su tavola"=843,000

"sulla tavola"=659,000

"nella tavola"=236,000

"nel tavolo"=128,000

"su tavolo"=94,400

"in tavolo"=63,800

The usage seems very idiosyncratic to me. Any native speakers care to comment?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlotteMertz

Thanks a lot! It sounds as though il tavolo is the physical furniture; tavola is the dining experience (at table, set or prepare table, come to table, etc.), singular and often used without "la."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/march

thanks! that helped a lot ))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/German4me22

Tavolo is any kind of table and 'on the table' would correctly be 'sul tavolo'. However DL has used 'tavola' which is the family table used for eating meals. 'Sulla tavola' is completely wrong

La cena è in tavola = Dinner is on the table.

Il pranzo è pronto tutti a tavola = Lunch is ready everyone to the table.

Tables in restaurants are called Tavolo. Vorrei prenotare un tavolo per due per favore. = Can I book ( reserve) a table for two please.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mariaelena256

why can't it be "alcune" feminine plural, i.e mele?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica

In negative sentences, alcun/alcuno/alcuna is always singular and equivalent to nessun/nessuno/nessuna; the effect is similar to how in English you don't have "any" apples, rather than "some" apples. In positive sentences, you can't use either, and instead you can use the plural alcuni/alcune, the partitive article (still with plural), or "qualche" with singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cosmopolita61

So is alcune wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica

Rather than wrong, it changes the meaning to "I do not have some on the table"; you could be saying you're slightly offended that someone thought you didn't have any or had few.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnieBosle

That was great. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liisa_Kristiina

what is the difference between in tavola and a tavola or su tavola?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lavmarx

Not much, I think they are just a different way to say the same thing. By the way it is "sul tavolo" or "sulla tavola"

EDIT: I saw somewhere that "tavolo" is the piece of furniture and "tavola" usually refers to the table when it is prepared to eat or a chart. (among other things) Still, you want to "prenotare un tavolo" not "tavola".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaBuzza

Il pranzo è in tavola. Venite tutti a tavola, è pronto. Su tavola non si dice, ma le mele sono sulla tavola


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilfalco42

Patience is wearing thin with the "sul" and "in" tavola. I just can't get the hang of it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WquDT
  • 1408

Both are correct but it is sulla tavola or in tavola for on the dinner table and sul tavolo for on the table(piece of furniture).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidFP6

Does that mean that " in tavolo" would be wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rcpjenn

Yahir---when you are one of The Knights Who Say "Ne!" (Monty Python fan here.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CiaoRiccardo

When can you use 'qualsiasi' to represent 'any' please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlliPllnen

I think qualsiasi is any as in whichever, alcuno is any as in any of sth. In English they are homonyms, unlike in many other languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mangoHero1

Agreed. The hints are misleading.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nnsph

I know one instance is when you're answering a question such as

'which way should I go?' -> 'any way is fine' 'Quale strada prendo?' -> 'Qualsiasi va bene'

Or

'Which type of ice cream do you prefer?' -> 'any type' 'Che tipo di gelato preferisce?' -> 'qualsiasi'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danmoller

Qualsiasi is like "no matter which one", then....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexandra121555

same question! Confused between qualsiasi and alcuno.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharinglanguage

I suppose i am wrong but it would have looked better, to me ,if we replaced "alcuno" by " nessuno" here. Am i wrong??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nnsph

Hmmm... I believe 'nessuno' would mean something like 'none' rather than 'any' and they're asking for 'any'. Just a guess.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jess28423

why not sulla tavola


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica

"Sulla tavola" is accepted; you probably made some other mistake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert600383

On the plate = "nel piatto" On the table = "in tavola"

Can somebody please explain the apparent inconsistency


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sylvia754597

Please read above. Very good link to explain "in tavola".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clarkiecat

I don't understand the difference between alcuna (which up til now i thought meant 'some'), nulla and qualsiasi. Anyone have any insight?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WquDT
  • 1408

I will try. Any in English can mean both some or whichever one but this is not always the case with other languages such as Italian. For any one, whichever one you use qualsiasi in Italian. Alcuna means some in a positive sentence but any(of something) in a negative sentence. It's the same concept in English. For example in English you would say "I have some but I don't have any . We don't say "I don't have some." So far for Nulla , we have seen it in a negative sentence and it meant anything . Non vedo nulla. I don't see anything. I hope this is useful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YahirMartinez

When should I use ne?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joan531459

Why alcuno and not alcune


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bjojoe

I do not have any OF THEM on the table.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mattiapascal

Marking this thread to find it later...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moycullen

Why is non ne ho ALCUNI in tavola not also correct - it could be referring to more than one thing, in English anyway


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jsmncrdr

in tavola, why not sulla tavola?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Voltaic117

Prepositions are pretty illogical in most languages, sadly. Kind of like how we like to say "I'm in bed" even though we're technically on it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grannygrace

Why not "alcuni sulla"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraemeJeal

Non ho alcun sul tavolo? Doesn't that cover it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dahai69790

"Non ne ho alcune sul tavolo."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/egg949nort

What's wrong with "sulla tavola"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JorgeTodes

Why "in" tavola? I thought "on" was "su" or "sulla".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilfalco42

If, as everyone seems to say, "tavolo" is for the furniture and "tavolA" is for the dining experience, then why is TavolA correct. And IN tavola is goofy. I understand "Tutti a tavolA" for getting people to the table, but .... Oh, well, I'll just put what DL wants and move on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kate3010

So could it have been alcuna as well?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/et-bim

"ne" should translate by "of them" in English. Or "Non ho alcuno in tavola" should be accepted also.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LouiseItalien

Why not "nella tavola"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anne609994

I don't understand why I cannot use "sulla tavola"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnnyBell9

Non ne ho sul tavolo. Accepted December 20.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/referee13

Non ne ho alcuno in tavola


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Claire867508

Sulla not there. Why 'in'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tony4504

Why not "sul tavolo"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hiQbo6xH

puzzled! the 'any' sounds more plural to me than singular. How can I know which one it is. It couldn't be any apple (s) or any fork (s) help


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidFP6

All correct but used used tavolo rather than tavola. Thought the latter was used when the table was a gathering for a meal. Not specified here. Was this a DL error or is there something I'm missing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janiceRobe4

Why is it alcuna singular when it's any of them?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/88sy2

Why in tavola if we need to specifically say on the table? Why sul tavolo doesn't work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lou758441

How do we know here that the o should end alcune. No rule given in tips


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/crollyanne

What is there about this sentence to indicate that the translation should be 'tavola' and not 'tavolo'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NgaLePhuoc

Is it necessary to have alcuno when using ne?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Am366

Why in tavola and not sul tavolo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kerstin514182

Why not "alcune"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/haidex1

Why is it 'in' tavola?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErnaWeiman

What is the difference between tavolo abd tavola?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jpieroni153

"Non ne ho alcuno in tavolo" marked incorrect - can anyone explain why?

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