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- "Ich sehe sie trotzdem."
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2378
The German "trotzdem" implies that you see her inspite of for example problem you might have had with her or her family or...; the English sentence "I still see her" does not imply this to my mind. Maybe "I see her anyway" may be the better translation.
"I still see her" is fine, but as a stand alone sentence it could easily be misinterpreted to have a different meaning.
See if these examples help: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nevertheless
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Thank you Hohenems; but the German "trotzdem" can have a variety and nuances of translation that "nevertheless does not cover. See -> http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html#/search=trotzdem&searchLoc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on And aren't nuances the fun in learning languages ?
Either I'm not getting it, or you aren't getting it, or we're both not getting it. To be honest, I'm no longer sure if I'm trying to help you with the English or if I need you to help me with the German!
All those translations offered for "trotzdem" (from Leo) can be used to imply that you see her inspite of for example problem you might have had with her or her family or.... "Still" can also be used that way. In the following examples, I might word things differently to sound better, but for the sake of comparing I'll try to keep them in the same general structure:
- My parents forbade me from seeing her; I see her nevertheless.
- My parents forbade me from seeing her; I still see her.
- My parents forbade me from seeing her; I see her anyway.
- My parents forbade me from seeing her; I see her regardless.
- My parents forbade me from seeing her; I see her nonetheless.
- My parents forbade me from seeing her; I see her all the same.
- My parents forbade me from seeing her; I see her in spite of this.
- My parents forbade me from seeing her; I see her just the same.
These all have the same meaning that despite my parents telling me that I can't see her (because she's a drug addict or different religion, or whatever) I go against their wishes and see her anyways. Because I'm a bad @$$ and that's how I role. Does this help? If not, help me understand "trotzdem" better so that I'll grasp the nuances!
Just to go for a sec off topic, your examples are pure gold for us non-native English speakers. Tnx :)
I cannot help you to find the right phrase in English, but may I can explain the fine nuance in German for this issue: Imagine a sulky child whose parents forbade him/her to play with its toys. A feeling will arise in the childs brain - we called 'Trotz' (=obstinacy, defiance?). I know that is an extreme interpretation of 'trotzdem'. But if you have that many option to translate, tell me please, which one of yours comes close to my saying above. Is it really 'I still see her.'? The pure translation would be: 'Ich sehe sie (immer) noch.' But this has a complete different message compared to 'Ich sehe sie trotzdem.'
I think this is a bit misleading. "Trotzdem" does share a common etymology with "Trotz" but the association with this root is weak at best.
You seem to be a bit confused about the possible meanings of "I still see her". It can mean the neutral "Ich sehe sie immer noch" but it can also translate to "trotzdem".
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"Still" is fine for this nuance. It has so many nuances that "still" may not be an ideal word.
I think "I still see her," as a stand-alone sentence is the least precise translation of "trotzdem." As you pointed out, if I were translating from English into German, I would probably say "Ich sehe sie (immer) noch." I think DL provided a bad suggested translation in this case.
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You should work for Duolingo. The English sentences have slight differences of nuance, but they all seem to be good translation. I had "I see her however", which you missed out.
Forget the "trotzdem", you are totally lost with the main meaning of the German sentence. "Sehen" in German is about visual seeing and not about dating. Like "she is hiding behind the curtains but I (can) still see her".
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"I still see her" is OK, as is "I see her anyway". I was marked wrong for "I see her, however", which seems fine to me.
I agree. It's all the same. Trotzdem can be translated in so many ways that this exercise doesn't cover it. I wrote "however, I see her" which would also be fine.
Hi everyone. I just wanted to chime in to confirm that the translation "I still see her" for "Ich sehe sie trotzdem" is correct. Please keep in mind that both the English sentence and the German one can have a variety of different meanings. Naturally, not all of them match. But e.g. for the examples Hohenems gave, the translation does fit.
EDIT Please note that my comment only refers to the meaning of "trotzdem" and the possibilities to express it in English. The German verb "sehen" (apart from a few rare exceptions) is not normally used to express that you are dating/meeting someone.
It is really a phenomen. You grow up with a language (german) learn another language for several years (English) and then take the Duolingocourse German for English speakers in order to realize that it is really true: you learn another language in order to learn something about your on language. It isn't easy!
Could you say "I see them anyways"? I never really thought about it but is saying "anyways" with an "s" a more slang way of saying it than "anyway"?
Both are fine. "Anyway" is used both in AE and BE while "anyways" is more common in AE. Strictly speaking "anyway" should probably be considered the better solution, but I'm sure "anyways" will be added if you report it.
This came up in previous questions as well. I dont think theres any consensus on which colloquial forms are acceptable by Duo...best bet is to report and tolerate the inconsistency for now. :/
"I am seeing her anyway" was marked incorrect. Am I missing something or is Duo wrong?
I had (and reported) the same issue. Pretty much everywhere else on Duolingo seems to accept both forms of the English present. And if you imagine a context of say "Her parents have forbidden me to see her - I am seeing her anyway" then "I see her anyway" is actually worse. Ah well.
Ah, there seems to be some confusion I accidentally might have contributed to. You can't use the German "sehen" in that sense. My comment above - confirming Hohenems' examples - was an answer to the discussion about the usage of "still/trotzdem". Sorry if this comment was misleading. I'll edit it.
Thanks wataya :) Do you mind providing us with an example of how one could say "I am dating her/him" in German? For curiosity's sake.
There are many possibilities. Here are some examples:
- For appointments (e.g. with a doctor) you could say "Ich habe einen Termin" or "wir sind verabredet"
- For a single date: "Wir gehen zusammen aus", "wir haben eine Verabredung"
- For an ongoing relationship: "wir gehen miteinander" (very colloquial), "Wir haben eine Beziehung"
@ruthgrace00: Not sure why you are posting this. I'm very well aware of all of this. But thanks anyhow :)
Hi Wataya,
I thought you should know that 'I am dating her/him' could NEVER refer to an appointment with the doctor.
We would say: 'I am seeing the doctor'
or:
'I have a doctor's appointment'
or, to be closer to the original:
'I am seeing her (ie the doctor) today'.
It could also not apply to a single date which would be:
I have a date on Thursday
I am seeing him on Thursday
We're going out on Thursday
So only the third of your examples is relevant.
btw, I would have said until recently that
I am dating him
was American English but I think it has crept into British English via American romcoms on the telly.
fyi, I speak British English.
Impressive number of languages by the way.
Can I write "ich sehe sie immer noch/noch immer"? if I can then they are interchangeable? (immer noch - trotzdem)
They're different kinds of "still" - "ich sehe sie noch immer" means "I still see her (just as I did before)", whereas "ich sehe sie trotzdem" is more like "I still see her (even though I shouldn't)".
hmm...i understand and i already know these two have different meainings but which one is used more often or which one is more colloquial? I know it depends on the situation but it is hard to say one of them in spoken german when you still see anything or anybody. In written german you have more time to think
I'd imagine you'd default to "noch immer" unless there's a reason you shouldn't still be doing whatever you're talking about or you're going against something or someone to do it, in which case "trotzdem" comes in.
I'm loath to assume either one is fine to use in either case but "noch immer" seems most versatile.
I wrote "However I see her." and it was wrong. Can someone tell me why is it wrong, please? :)
I was marked correct for "I see them anyway", which is utterly different to the most common translations in this thread...
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Is this a possible translation : "Ich sehe noch immer sie" (or if you flip noch and immer; does the meaning change)?
Duo does not accept "I see them anyhow." Why not? Is it that they won't accept "them" for "sie" here (a case of setting us to mind reading), or do they not like "anyhow" as a translation of "trotzdem", despite the fact that it's a perfectly good one? Reported.
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I am fed up with having to deal with ambiguous idioms, when there are many more basic building blocks that we still need to cover. This is not helping me with the essential German that I need in order to communicate the basics in a German-speaking country. Also, a lot of time is wasted trying to work out the ambiguities.
