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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/This_Dark_Soul

I discovered Ido

Last week, I was looking at synonyms for "walking" and came across the word "ido". Having no idea what that meant, I looked it up and discovered it was an offspring language of Esperanto - literally named after the suffix -id.

Apparently, it was based off of Reformed Esperanto. Fortunately for us Esperantists, Zamenhof didn't like the changes people were trying to force him to make, and the changes didn't go through, mainly because the Esperantists at the time vehemently rejected the Reformed version. However, a few people liked the changes and defected from Esperanto and turned Reformed Esperanto into Ido by making their own little tweaks in order to make the "perfect language". Eventually, they gave up trying to do that and settled for what they had. There are still a few thousand people who speak Ido, called Idists.

That lead me to wonder if such events were a reason that Esperantists of today are so adamant about "not reinventing the wheel", because people have tried to (and succeeded to various degrees), and continue to try to.

September 21, 2019

17 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Apparently, it was based off of Reformed Esperanto.

Not quite true. The Reform Project of 1894 was a hodgepodge of just about EVERY suggestion Zamenhof had received. It was meant to demonstrate the problems associated with opening up the door to reform. There are many Idists leaflets (and present-day ideas directly and indirectly derived therefrom) suggesting that Zamenhof approved of the changes proposed by Ido. In fact, Ido is more similar to normal Esperanto than to the Reform Project of 1894.

September 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/This_Dark_Soul

Welp. It was a brief overview. Everywhere I looked, that's what I found. Sorry if I was off-point

September 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carbsrule

If by "reinventing the wheel" you mean randomly hacking up Esperanto and changing whatever pieces one might think can be improved, then the reason Esperantists don't want to go there is because you can't really change a living language, in the same way that you can't just one day declare that "dog" in English now means "puppy" and "hound" will now be used whenever "dog" was previously. Languages do change over time, of course, and there are many languages which have academies which try and steer usage in a particular direction, but the key point is this: new learners often imagine Esperanto to still be a language project, ready to be shaped and moulded according to their ideas, and not a living language which has been in use for over a century. That said, there are several proposals for minor^ changes to Esperanto (ri, na, and so on) which see varying levels of acceptability and use.

If, on the other hand, you mean creating a new universal language because Esperanto is perceived to be lacking in some particular way, then there are always new language projects being created, many of which are based on Esperanto or steal some of its ideas. Some of these progress beyond the language project stage, but most do not. None have ever approached the number of speakers of Esperanto.

^ Depending on one's point of view; some would say these would make very major changes.


Manĝu terpomojn kaj feliĉiĝu!

September 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/This_Dark_Soul

Dang though. The fact that people still think they can change Esperanto completely confuses me. I guess I'm lucky I'm not like that then...…. kind of anyways. The main reason why I even asked was because every time I ask a question about Esperanto grammar or about a word (which isn't often), someone scolds me for "reinventing the wheel" when I'm simply trying to learn. I can't properly learn a language without asking questions, but that's frustrating when people assume that just because I'm a beginner, that I'm trying to change the language.

September 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

The main reason why I even asked was because every time I ask a question about Esperanto grammar or about a word (which isn't often), someone scolds me for "reinventing the wheel" when I'm simply trying to learn.

It's hard to make a specific comment about a general observation, but this looks like a very important point. From the other side (i.e. as one who answers questions), sometimes it's hard to tell honest questions from "people trying to change the language" - and as for the latter, it really does get old. For those times that I have read the signs wrong and reacted to my own misunderstandings - to you and to all, I apologize.

Being mindful of this and wording questions carefully can help.

  • Why does Esperanto have letters with hats? // I think the hatted letters are a complication, don't you?
  • I don't understand how this works // I thought Esperanto was supposed to be easy?
  • What's the difference between pomo and pomon? // The accusative doesn't make any sense.
  • Can I say "Mi donas vin pomo"? // "Mi donas vin pomo" should be accepted.
September 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/This_Dark_Soul

Thank you. I will make sure to carefully word my questions in the future. :)

October 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I perceive that my note had an unintended impact. If so, I am sorry.


Quite the opposite actually ;D

Sweet. We'll all just cut each other a bit more slack and we'll all have a better day in the process.

October 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/This_Dark_Soul

Quite the opposite actually ;D. I felt a great relief after reading it. I truly do appreciate what you said. There's no need to be sorry. It might seem silly, but it feels like a burden was lifted off my shoulders. I've been frustrated as a beginner trying to fit in and always feeling like I was doing something wrong, but your message made me feel like I should give joining the Esperantist community another chance. It might seem cheesy, but it's true. ;)

October 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rgvandewalker

Obviously yes. Tens of improved international languages exist.

September 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

... on paper.

September 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikhil3

Ido nowadays is more like a more Latinised version of Esperanto. It has more Latin root words and less Slavic & Greek root words.

Most Idists are revivalists. Hardly 20 or 30 are active Idists and there are around 200 to 300 Ido speakers & learners on different social media platforms.

And that said most modern day Ido speakers & learners are Esperantists too

September 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikhil3

I am trying to learn a bit of Ido like few 100s of Esperantists interested in multiple constructed Auxillary Languages.

I try to contribute a bit to Ido Wikipedia too - articles with a paragraph or two.

I have not seen more than 120 views for any of the posts on the Facebook groups concerning Ido of which I am a member

Most however average aroumd 60 views or less.

So, there should be around 100 Ido speakers who are active on social media. There are around 200 to 300 people or so who are in such groups.

According to one leading Idists or a senior active member, Progreso - the Ido magazine used to publish around 10000 prints in its heydays in early 1900s if I am not wrong.

September 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I am trying to learn a bit of Ido [...] I try to contribute a bit to Ido Wikipedia too - articles with a paragraph or two.

This seems to be a pretty common attitude toward Esperanto as well. People start learning, then get excited, and start looking for ways to "contribute" before they're done learning. Nothing wrong with using a language to learn it (and in fact, that's the best way), but we should always keep in mind that there are limits. Certain Wikipedia is a good place to get ideas when other sources come up dry, but care should be taken when using it as a linguistic authority for reasons that I hope are clear.

I have not seen more than 120 views for any of the posts on the Facebook groups concerning Idaroumd 60 views or less.

I have not seen more than 120 views for any of the posts on the Facebook groups concerning Ido of which I am a member

Sounds like the nature of Facebook. 60 views sounds like a very healthy number.

September 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikhil3

Yes, I know Wikipedia is not a place to look for high quality content from a linguistic perspective.

For me, Wikipedia was perhaps the only source of reading Esperanto for about a decade. I didn't discover all the other websites except Duolimgo & Lernu till 2018.

I wasn't aware of any Esperanto magazines, books or famous Esperantists except Zamenhof.

Thanks to Esperanto, my learning curve for Ido was very small. I learnt basic ideas & words in just few weeks. In the first two months I wrote 3 or 4 short wikis and most were proofread post publishing.

I did publish 5 or so of Wiki in Esperanto in the last year. Most were then edited by other expert Wikipedian Esperantists

October 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeeMiller9

Where did you get the idea that there are even "a few thousand people who speak Ido" today?

September 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I find the claim that there are "a few thousand people who speak Ido" to be moderately believable - at least as believable as the claim the two million people speak Esperanto.

I can't answer for This Dark Soul, but I got this idea from a few data points. Not SO long ago, there was an annual World Ido Conference which attracted something like 50 people. Back when I was doing bits for Radio Verda in Mock-Ido, two real idists wrote in to complain. I'm part of a telegram group for Ido and Esperanto ... or I was till I deleted Telegram from my device. The group was moderately active and there were many on that group who were pretty competent with Ido. Finally, I've met at least a few Idists (and or people who can construct decent sentences in Ido) in person.

Given all this, it's certainly reasonable to believe that however we define "speaker", that there are 0.1% as many Ido speakers as Esperanto speakers.


Edit: I found this:

The estimated number of people who speak Ido is between two and five thousand, and interest in the language has increased thanks to online activity, however no accurate statistics for the number of Ido speakers exist.

https://www.omniglot.com/writing/ido.htm

September 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/This_Dark_Soul

You're pretty close, salivanto. Thanks

September 28, 2019
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