"You all walk to the lararium."

Translation:Ad lararium ambulatis.

September 27, 2019

11 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stefanobellelli

What's the purpose of "you all", if "vos omnes" is not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

The purpose is only to specify the authors of the course expect a plural you in Latin; They want you to use the plural you, and there's no other mean to specify that they want it in English, without any context.

The "all" is not translated, as the "vos" is already the plural you specifically.
So:

You = tu OR vos.
You all = only vos.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stefanobellelli

The "all" is not translated.

And how could the user know that "all" is not to be translated? The only way to know, here, is by trial and error. Which is very frustrating.

When a user is given a sentence, you should expect that they will try to translate what they see. Expecting the user to ignore one word selectively, without being told so in any way, is bad practice.

Moreover, "vos omnes" is a completely fine and acceptable translation of "you all"... or better, it's the most correct one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

It's not frustrating, it's the way Duo works.

Once you know that all the courses translating English to a language with a non-existent in English singular/plural you distinction, they are forced to use "you all" to disambiguate which "you" it is". Once you know that: it's valid for all the Duo courses.

Translate what they see: no, to translate the meaning.

Expecting the user to ignore one word selectively

I think you didn't understand the point. It's not word by word that we have to translate, but by meaningful blocks. "you all" is a meaningful block meaning a plural you. That's all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

I am not normally given to making a fuss, but I have to disagree on one point. Duolingo is American, we understand that much, and many Americans (not all) use the "you all" plural; but on the other courses I do, Duo does not insist on "you all" for plural you. And I really feel it should not. You all, or y'all, is not used anywhere else in the English-speaking world, and it is a source of real irritation for many users. Duo manages to deal with this considerately in French, German, Dutch and other languages: why not in Latin?

I get that bathrooms are toilets. I understand that elevators are lifts. I have come to accept that pavements are carriageways for motor vehicles. But you all ? Honestly, it is like a red rag to a bull, like a piece of chalk being scraped across a blackboard. It grates, every time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stefanobellelli

I don't know which courses apply this system; but I'm pretty sure there are some which accept both translations for "you". And that's great, because there are many other ways to learn the two pronouns (e.g. translating into English, matching pairs, etc.).

We have to "translate the meaning"? Great. Then, the meaning of "you all" is not "you (plur.)". It's "you all". In standard English, the two things are different. I'm willing to have "vos" accepted as a translation, but "vos omnes" is clearly the most correct translation, and marking it as an error is just silly.

I translate the meaning of what I see. Not of what I should know if I had done many other Duolingo courses, because then I would have found out by trial and error that when I see "you all" I should disregard the actual meaning in standard English and apply an implied idiosyncratic pragmatic meaning that works only on Duolingo and in some Southern US English dialect. See the problem now?

There is no way a user can know in advance that the course creators intend "you all" to be one single meaning block.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Betty446802

We USA Southerners know exactly what they are saying with "you all." We just shorten it to y'all, and it is always plural. We're just letting you know it's more than one "you."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

I understand, accept and respect that that is what you (all) say in the southern states of America, and maybe elsewhere on the continent, to a degree. But it is not standard English. In most of the English-speaking world "you all" carries plural meaning, but with heavy emphasis. An example might be: "Are you all coming, or just you, Pete and Joe?" Internationally, "you all" is used in limited circumstances like this to different between the whole group and one or several members of it. It is not used as the automatic choice for plural you, and therefore when we see a sentence like "You all walk into the lararium" we automatically take it to mean Ad lararium omnes ambulatis (The whole lot of you walk to the lararium) - with heavy stress.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Betty446802

Sean, you say "In most of the English-speaking world 'you all' carries plural meaning but with heavy emphasis." That is exactly how it is used in the South. It is never ever singular, although movies, plays, etc. like to portray it that way. And to Pete and Joe, we would say "both of you." But this is just a Latin lesson in how to use the plural "you."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duodpn1

I think it would be better to use a more standard English word than "lararium". I suggest "shrine". Of course that leaves out some shades of meaning, but that's often the price of translating rather than borrowing words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Lararium is also an English word, as you are forced to use it if you want to describe a household altar that is specifically dedicated to the Lares gods, it's the name of this object in English.

If it's simply an household altar, in a modern world house, it can be translates with "household altar" or an equivalent.

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