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  5. "أَيْن روزا؟"

"أَيْن روزا؟"

Translation:Where is Rosa?

September 30, 2019

28 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Iris797749

My friends say Wyna for where. Dialect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

Yes. I'm guessing your friend is from the Levant (Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shlomomm993

What's the difference between ayna and wayn??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

If not Levant, which dialect is wayn?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

It is common along the spectrum of dialects to say "wayn" (or wain) for "where", from Morocco to the Gulf at the East. Maybe the tone or the stress on (Y) is different a bit from one place to another. Egyptians, though, would rather say (fain) or (fén) - long "e" a bit.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WilfredoVi826008

A chain of replies. - .سلسلة من الردود


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

The audio is completely wrong. It should be: ayna rózá (or rúzá).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BubDuck

Why should it be "ayna" though it is written like "ayn"? Just curious about that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

For starters, you might know by now that we don't usually write the harakat or short vowels when we write - so the fatHa on (N) in (ayna) here is not written, and that's OK (though I'd expect Duolingo to put it there as a guide for new comers).

Now, the word itself, is actually (ayna). This is the original form. When the word comes alone (any word not just this one), or when a word comes at the end of the sentence, typically the last vowel is dropped. It is added as a form of continuation of speech, and to help with the flow of the speech (and of course there's a grammatical story behind this but it's out of the scope for now). So when a word comes at the end or simply mentioned alone, there is no need to add that last vowel, and (ayna) becomes (ayn).
Now, I can see that they fixed the audio and the machine does say (ayna) instead of (ayn) and this is how it should be because (ayna) is at the beginning of the sentence and followed by another word

for the standards of the standard Arabic, it would be cumbersome to speak and omitting the vowels on the last consonant of every word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

I share BubDuck's puzzlement. If the word is basically ayna, I can't see why Duolingo doesn't give it to us in that form. Especially, as it often comes first in a sentence, as it is more likely than many words to have another word following it, and therefore have the final A pronounced. Do I guess correctly that this rule about dropping the last vowel of the last word in the sentence doesn't apply to all vowels but only if the last vowel is a harakat?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

Yes, it is dropped in case of the Harakat. In fact, I'm saying dropped to approximate the idea for learners who are used to Latin alphabet. In essence, in Arabic, we do put Sukún on the letter (which is a vowel-silent marker), or simply leave the consonant without any markers (as we do in every day writing).

As for Duolingo, well, there is a lot needed for this course specifically to raise its level to some acceptance level. I'm a native and I don't see this course is technically out of the Beta stage after one year or more from establishing this course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thanks, TJ_Q8. So it's dropped ONLY in the case of harakat? And I appreciate that harakat aren't normally written. But if I understand you correctly, what you say about dropping the vowel applies to the vowels, whether you write them or not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jubz___

I completely agree akhi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

KatieC993112 Yes, it's mainly the short vowels which are affected at the end of the sentence. Writing them or not well, it's a personal choice, but yeah maybe one can type sukún if they wish to at the end of the word at the end of the sentence - though i think that would be a bit misleading.
in Quran, at the end of each verse or line, even though we don't say out the last short vowel at the end, but it is written because it is important grammatically. Also, those who study Quran recitation might not stop at the conventional end of the sentence or verse and continue to the next one, so the vowel marker should be there anyway. However, this is for Quran which has a literature on its own when it comes to orthography and reading.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatieC993112

Thank you, TJ. When you say "it's mainly the short vowels..." does that mean that sometimes the long vowels are affected at the end of a sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

I say it mainly because I'm cautious that maybe my memory did miss some rule, so to keep it general, I do say mainly short vowels.
On a side note, long vowels are affected but not in this case but under some other grammatical discussions (e.g. Genitive).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BubDuck

Thank you for your answers. So if I'm not mistaken, it should be written أَيْنَ in this sentence and أَيْن when it is at the end of a sentence? (when writing all diacritics)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

For you as a learner, yes, the last marker should be written أَيْنَ

As for not writing it, it's not a big deal for us really. So, it's not like right or wrong. But it's something that must be considered for learners to know that there is a short vowel here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BubDuck

Thank you very much!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

Most welcome


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanood825912

What is the difference between ayna and wayna


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

The proper Arabic word is (ayna). "Wayna" (and its variants like Wain, wayn ...etc) are more dialectical. Ayna could become simply (ayn), dropping the last vowel when the word comes alone and nothing follows.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WilfredoVi826008

You get a lingot for lots of knowledge


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bart444836

I hear the voice say "AINA", with an A sound on the end. but doesn't there need to be written an little line on top of the letter N


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJ_Q8
  • 1377

Yes. There should be fatHa.

أَيْنَ

Duolingo is not the best out there to learn the language (any language) so such discrepancies are expected.

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