An update and a question from team Dutch! - Processing Replies!
We’re nearing the end of our tree, which is incredibly exciting!
In fact, we’re working on the last 2 skills! After this we’ll be adding more word images, writing the tips & notes and testing and improving our course material. We’re aiming to release this course at the end of this month! ^^
For the curious ones amongst you, I can present you with the following facts about the Dutch course:
- Word count: 2128
- Word images: 133
- Number of skills: 64
Naturally, these numbers will still change. Especially the amount of word images will increase, since it is now possible for us to add the word images we were unable to add before. ^^
The grammar skills which we’ve added to the tree are: formal (vs. informal), indefinite pronouns, ‘er’, present continuous, ‘te’ + infinitive, diminutive and reflexives.
We do not want to disclose the other (vocabulary) skills we’ve added, because...where’s the fun in that? We do want to get you excited too, after all…Yet we’d feel bad not providing you with some preview, so here goes:
In other cases we’ve changed the vocabulary taught per skill drastically or even entirely, so that the vocabulary fits the Dutch context better and in order to improve things which we thought could, and perhaps even should, be improved in the old tree.
We are very pleased with the tree we have now. We think it’s unique, fun and insightful. However, in order to improve our tree already and give you an early opportunity to provide feedback and contribute to our course, we are presenting you with the following question:
Dutch speakers: which are the 3 Dutch words that definitely should be part of our tree, and why?
Other language speakers: what do you think of, in terms of words (objects, things, events) when you hear ‘The Netherlands’ or Dutch?
We will read your replies and certainly add 5 words accordingly. Your replies will also help us by giving us some insight into how to improve and edit the (cultural) content of our tree.
Lavinae, KaiEngle, kirlll, Rhynn and KevinKnauer
139 Comments This discussion is locked.
Americans have their American pancakes and the French have their crêpes, but I think that Dutch pancakes are up there with the greats. There are special pancake restaurants and pancake boats in The Netherlands where you can get pancakes that are larger than pizzas with all kinds of sweet and savioury toppings (often baked inside the pancake).
Korfbal was developed in 1902 by a Dutch teacher as a sport that can be played by males and females at the same time. It is played in over 50 countries and, as one of the few sports that are always played mixed, it is a great example of inclusiveness.
This word literally means "tasty", but it can be used in loads of contexts. Food can be "lekker". The weather can be "lekker". You can feel yourself "lekker" when you're well and not so "lekker" when you're ill. You can say "lekker dan" in a sarcastic way to express something is not so great and the word might also be useful in a future flirting bonus skill.
I fought tooth and nail for my right to eat those pancakes, since one of the friends I was traveling with was vegan, and she ended up not speaking to me for a day when I went anyway. Totally worth it. Dutch pancakes are amazing.
Good for you. I have a couple of vegan friends myself but nobody should force their diet choices on anyone else. Also pancakes are incredible.
I guess I'm lucky in that I have a dutch restaurant that serves pannekoeken a five minute walk from my house... Those things are awesome!!!
I am Afrikaans en nou weet ek waar ons pannekoek obsessie vandaan kom. Dit lyk lekker! Add these words!
Korfball sounds fun! But I imagine I'd have a lot of trouble scoring points.
No words come to mind when I hear 'Dutch' but when I hear 'Dutch incubator team' what comes is: efficiency, efficiency, efficiency.
This is so awesome!! :D I think of wooden shoes, dikes, Gouda cheese and clocks (and beer).
If you want some typically Dutch words there's stroopwafel, polder and gracht. Problem with those is that they don't really have translations (as far as I know)
Thanks for the feedback! ^^
Teaching words which have no English equivalent is, fortunately, not an issue. We can treat them as borrowed words. :)
Ehhh. I kind of disagree on the first one. I'm a Dutch-speaker and I still say "stroopwafel" when speaking English.
They are sold as "caramel waffles" abroad.
They can also be called "Caramel wafers" though that name can refer to a different product as well. It as least shows that "stroopwafels" isn't a word without translation.
It's one of those words which cannot be translated, but when we have gezelligheit, we all know it!
When I hear Dutch, I think of windmills, tulips, and a country that's breathes underwater. And thank you so much, I gave you a lingot.
I think of prostitutes, marijuana, ecstasy, tulips, windmills, crazy painters and football.
I think of polders, those awesome sprinkles you put on bread, and awesome city names
With those sprinkles you mean hagelslag? I mostly eat hagelslag with pindakaas on my bread, or appelstroop. Definitely fun words!
This might sound stupid, and I don't want to appear like an ignorant American, but I ALWAYS think of Amsterdam and the beautiful canals. I used to Google pictures of Amsterdam a last summer because I wanted to go and see the canals so badly!
(Side question: Also, I read a phrase once, and I really, really liked it. The phrase is, "Helaas, pindakaas!" Is this phrase actually used or was the Internet lying to me?)
No need to feel discouraged about sharing your words/connotations. We were asking you about your thoughts after all. :)
I love the Amsterdam canals too!
In my experience, "helaas pindakaas" is still used as an expression, though mostly by generation X (from the 1960s to early 1980s). I never use the expression myself, but my parents do. :)
3 words: haring, pepernoten, pindakaas
and another 3 words: grapjas, slechterik, pikkedief
or maybe: dubbeltje, kwartje, daalder
I love that you have an "NL" skill at the end. I'm super excited now that you have been able to customize your tree so much! I think of bikes and canals and the architecture, but I've only ever been to Amsterdam. (Obviously you have some of these words, so maybe there are some biking terms that could be included, etc.?)
Lekker because you use it for everything. Lekker eten, lekker weer, mijn schoenen zitten lekker, we gaan lekker fietsen, the more I type the word the stranger it gets :-)))
That word count is interesting! It's much higher than that for the Spanish for English course whose word count is only 1571.
We've been monitoring the requests and discussions posted on the Duolingo forums for a while.
A request that often occurs is that of having more vocab taught.
We're happy to oblige and we have therefore added more vocabulary to this tree than what was originally laid out by the English tree as a template. However, with regards to the word count in comparison to the Spanish course, Selcen's right. :)
The vocabulary we've added is at times cultural or necessary for teaching grammar, but also concerns practical words and phrases, such as:
- "My name is [ ]."
- "It's my birthday."
- "I was born in [ ]."
- "I am married/single/divorced/..."
the "incubator count" for Spanish is actually 2190. I think users see smaller numbers because the incubator counts include forms taught separately (e.g. drink-drank-drunk will count 3 in the incubator, but 1 in the user word count)
Other language speakers: what do you think of, in terms of words (objects, things, events) when you hear ‘The Netherlands’ or Dutch?
I used to frequent a Dutch cafe in Christchurch called Van Dams. Because of that the (delicious) things I associate with the dutch are salty liquorice, aniseed coffee (especially these first two), olliebolle, croquettes, and... damn I can't remember the last thing... but it was a roll with plenty of mustard and sauekraut and some sort of sausage. I think it was named after the sausage they used but can't remember for the life of me what it was.
Oh and those windmill biscuits... Uhhhh....(looks them up) speculaas.
I'm afraid the aniseed coffee isn't a typical Dutch thing (or a Dutch thing at all). Never heard of it.
As for the sausage roll with sauerkraut, that's a 'broodje rookworst', and it's pretty good indeed.
Haha, I tried really hard to think of what he meant, but couldn't figure it out, but now I get his description. Of course, the rookworst has to come from the Hema, or it's not real!
Oh. :( They should definitely adopt aniseed coffee as a national thing. :P
I hope you will have varken, kip, snelheid and the onomatopeic klompen - just because they make me glimlach.
Fun things I can think of are: hagelslag, Sinterklaas & Zwarte Piet, oliebollen, Nintje, vla, Efteling, dropje, Koningsdag & vrijmarkt, koffie, tulpen, fietsen and stroopwafels. I'll stop here before I double your vocab list. :D
P.S. I'm not Dutch.
Netherlands... the big stereotype is of course Amsterdam and the Red Light District (I believe that's what it's called there), brothels, and legalized drugs, especially pot. Although, I believe all of this stuff is actually typically very exaggerated in the American perception of the Dutch, and (I think) drugs and prostitution are still technically illegal there but the laws are just not strictly enforced.
A generally tolerant, progressive society with good life quality and a high GDP, which has become much more conservative within the past decade or so. Maybe a little xenophobic, maybe just protective of their own cultural heritage. Theo van Gogh and his murder, and of course Vincent van Gogh. The "draw Muhammad" cartoons.
I think of the "low lands," the dikes, the Hague (World Court and some other important international organizations), beer (somewhat). And, being from the New York City region, I think of this part of the country's traditional Dutch heritage. New Netherlands (the NYC metro region), New Amsterdam (lower Manhattan). Local Dutch subcultures that exist here to this day. Dutch farms from the colonial era. The Amish and Mennonites (though they may actually be German).
DJ Tiesto and Goldmember from Austin Powers.
I hope none of this offends or is seen as overly stereotypical, but these are the things that come to mind when I think about the country.
The Muhammad cartoons were actually drawn in a Danish newsmagazine. Being confused for Danes is also a Dutch stereotype.
My bad. I definitely used to confuse the two all the time as a child. I think it had to do with your country names and your peoples' names being so irregular in the English language, the "D" sound, plus both countries being somewhat overshadowed by Germany (and, again, the whole "Dutch" vs "Deutsch" thing; the "Pennsylvania Deutsch" [Amish, Mennonites] being one of the most obvious examples of this problem).
As a kid, I can remember eating a danish one morning and verifying it all with my mother. I also knew my next-door neighbor was Dutch, she was from the Netherlands and/or Holland, and she (as far as I could tell as a child) had no accent when she spoke English, furthering my confusion somewhat.
As for the Muhammad cartoons, I thought I remembered them being done in response to Van Gogh's murder. Another reason many Americans might continue to confuse your two countries is that you are both known to be somewhat surprising U.S. allies against Islamist terrorism. Like I said before, two generally peaceful northern European countries who have become somewhat more hawkish within the past few years (along with Iceland). Hopefully learning the two languages will help many of us keep things straight.
Prostitution is legal in the Netherlands. But the prostitutes must be 18 years or older. For soft drugs (eg. Marijuana) is a policy of tolerance (gedoogbeleid in Dutch. You may soft drugs in coffee shops, and the maximum amount of marijuana you are allowed have with you is 5 grams or less. If you have more than 5 grams, but less than 30 grams, you'll get a fine of €65, and the police will take the drugs. (Which is still cheaper than passing someone on a vehicle on the right hand side, which has a €90 fine.) The rules in the Netherlands about drugs are strange; you may not have drugs with you, but you are allowed to use them.
To make it even weirder for the foreign people here reading along: coffee shops are allowed to sell up to 5 grams, but they are not allowed to buy it for their stock. The police acts as if the coffee shops produce the weed from thin air (sometimes known as "achterdeurbeleid": back door policy). Growing weed at home is illegal of it's more than 5 plants or if you use artificial light to grow them (so a few plants on your balcony out in the open for every by-passer to see is allowed), and people who grow them on a structural basis at home or somewhere else to sell to the coffee shops are handled with hard hands by the police.
Perhaps we're just weird.
Interesting. I knew the laws were somewhat convoluted (as they always are on these matters). What makes the pot laws so nutty here is that each of the 50 states have their own laws, as does the federal government, whose laws "technically" supersede state laws in cases of conflict. But the federal government has stated that it won't act against states on the marijuana issue. At least two states have completely legalized marijuana use, production, etc. Most others have "decriminalized" it (a misleading term--it's still illegal but being caught with similar amounts as in the Netherlands results only in a very minor penalty) and fully legalized its use as an Rx medication. Growing it or intending to distribute it are serious crimes, but possessing it for personal use is not. Although, again, being that medicinal marijuana is legal most places, people who have permits to grow it can do so without penalty.
As for prostitution, it's legal in like three very rural counties in the state of Nevada, none of them anywhere near Las Vegas. I think that's a commonly held stereotype some people abroad have about the U.S.
So, see, we're just as weird here. :-)
I am an 'other language speaker' and think of flowers, bicycles, and houseboats when The Netherlands is mentioned.
I think you should add 'toch', 'maar' als in 'doe maar' of 'ik ga maar weer' en 'nou'. Because I think those would be very hard to understand for speakers of other languages, yet they are used constantly.
Skating! Both canal skating and olympic skating. How is it possible that this hasn't been mentioned yet? Or am I just a weird Norwegian? ;-)
De drie woorden die er sowieso moeten zijn: gezellig, hagelslag en drop.
Wat ook interessant zou kunnen zijn zijn spreekwoorden (of typische nederlandse uitspraken), zoals "Als de kat van huis is, dansen de muizen op tafel", "Hoge bomen vangen veel wind", "De kop in het zand steken" en de beste van allen: "Kijken, kijken, niet kopen"
You'd might want to add some Cruijf or Louis van Gaal to the idioms section ;)
When I think of ‘The Netherlands’ or Dutch', I think of:
Windmills, dikes, wooden shoes, tulips.
(Stop laughing at me ... I know that you are!). ;-)
Please let their be slang words taught through the tree. It wouldn't be any fun having completed your tree and you get there and can't understand a word anyone's saying since it's all slang.
When I hear The Netherlands or Dutch I think of tulips, windmills, wooden shoes, and Solvang, CA. My family goes to Solvang every few years, and there's a wooden red shoe that is HUGE that we take pictures of us in. At least it was huge to me...I was 8 when I last went I think...maybe 10. I want to go again!
EDIT: Solvang is Danish, not Dutch...but I still associate Solvang with Dutch. :P
Words that should be in there: Gezellig(heid), hagelslag, fietsen
I'm Dutch by the way.
As a Dutchy, perhaps you can let them practice with the word Scheveningen for their pronunciation, just like they used in the in second world war to distinguish natural Dutchies from the German who spoke Dutch.
"Grachtengordel" or "tuingereedschapset" are way more difficult in my experience with foreigners ;) Especially "ui" in combination with "G" is a tongue twister
Mice that live in windmills in old Amsterdam? Tulips, cows, and a complete lack of hills.
Nijmegen Four Day Marches, eye watering orange, stroopwafels and poffertjes, pancakes (yes, I'm quite food orientated)
I am a foreigner. Because of the Dutch history and my great sympathy towards the Dutch people which comes from it, I have to say: South Africa, Indonesia, New York, humanism, calvinism
Three words: Zeiken, Eigenwijs, Direct(almost Blunt)
Working on a daily base with foreign people, they see us as Extremely Direct(Blunt), always negative (we will almost never give a 10 and see an 8 as almost perfect, see PQS score) and stubborn
Nog een uitsmijter: Nederwiet ;)
I think of Amsterdam, chocolate, farms, and tulips. I mean, after all, the Tulip Man in The Fault in Our Stars is Dutch!
I think of clogs, Amsterdam, dams, windmills, and The Fault in Our Stars :)
Not sure if it is possible in any form but: ''gezellig''. It sort of means the feeling of having a good time.
I tend to think of tulips, the house of Orange, and not drowning despite all odds.
I think of my Dutch friend who goes by the nickname DJ, and of NL being a country that should not exist but does.
When I think of the Dutch language, I think of Belgium: waffles, the best frites in the world, mussels, fruit lambic beer, bicycles, waterzooi, windmills, lace, tapestry, beef stew (stoofkarbonnaden), chocolate, Adolphe Sax (the inventor of the saxophone), Bruegel, wooden shoes, and my darling great-grandmother. Can't wait! Thank you, Team Dutch!
I mentioned it in another comment, but please include bakje troost (cup of comfort) I will always remember this when drinking coffee from when we had friends from the Netherlands living here in the states. The church we all attended together had horrid weak coffee and we were always glad to go to their home and get coffee well brewed.
I think of:
Cheese colourful gardens of many different types of flowers Cannabis and prostitution (as in it's legal) Football Cows Ann Frank The low sea level of Amsterdam
When I hear Dutch/Netherlands, I think of Holland, windmills and greenery
I would say that gezellig, fiets and sfeervol should be in there ( sfeervol just beause I always find it hard to find a translation for it... full of atmosphere?? and for gezellig there is also no translation of course but it's used very often)
When I think of the Netherlands, I think of green fields, windmills, and Dutch:) Thank you for creating the course Team Dutch!
Let me preface this by saying that I am not Dutch, but I have visited The Netherlands. Dutch culture is very open and "live and let live." The Dutch vocabulary tree should emphasize the proud Dutch history of tolerance, bicycling, flowers, canals, art, and the wonderful parks and transportation systems of The Netherlands/Belgium.
3 woorden: fiets, kaas, gracht.
nu maar hopen dat Iers ook binnenkort klaar is, daar zit ik nou al een tijd op te wachten :)
When I think of The Netherlands, I usually think of 'totaalvoetbal', Dennis Bergkamp, Johan Cruijff and the Eredivisie (cough PSV cough). So perhaps maybe some things relating to Holland's rich footballing history? :)
As well as maybe some football chants so I can fully support Holland ;) (although I have been for nearly a decade)
Well the basic one isn't that hard: Hup! Holland Hup! (basically means "go" or something like that)
The one which is sometimes used after that is much harder: laat die leeuw niet in zijn hempie staan (which means something like "don't let that lion stand there in his shirt", don't ask me why...)
For the rest I can't really think of a lot, but then again, I'm not the biggest football fan.
"Hup!" is what one says to a horse to encourage it over a fence or jump, at least amongst horsey-people in the UK.
I think of my dutch friends, bikes, and about a million people dressed in orange yelling and screaming "JAI NADERLANDS!"
Desalniettemin, binnenpretje, smeuïg.
If there's any chance at a Flemish section: goesting.
Great idea! :) I'm looking forward to checking the course out! :) this is embarrassingly stereotypical, but I think of tulips, windmills and clogs :)
'vrachtwagen', 'kaasschaaf', 'moii' & 'lelijk' are all good common Dutch words with unique sounds and syllables. 'Groenten', 'bloemenmarkt', 'vrachtschip', 'aardbeientaart', 'aardappelen', 'vla', 'luiken' zijn nog een paar goede woorden. 'Pannenkoekenhuis' is a common easy to understand compound word. There needs to be a lesson on 'verkeersinformatie', 'files' and 'fietswegen'.
I like your words!! I agree there should be a lesson on files and fietsen and what they mean in Holland.
We even have fietsfiles.
fietsen en drop! en (een broodje) haring, en paling. Dat mis ik het meest. Koektrommel etiquette, het minst (maar bestaat ook nauwelijks meer). Maar, even serieus. Nu ik Spaans en Portugees erbij aan het leren ben, bedenk ik me weer ❤❤❤ moeilijk het is voor buitenlanders dat auto's in garages staan (sit in het Engels), dat een boek op tafel ligt, en de sleutel in de deur ZIT. Dat lijkt me een nasty skill. Veel succes verder.
Great job! I'm excited about your progress! I will promote your course to dozens of international friends!
About vocabulary: many words I'd like to have added are mentioned by others. I like the typical dutch words: "tulp", "molen", "klomp". And of course a dutch course is not complete without the word "gezellig" - but good luck translating that! ;)
That said, as a dutchman and land and water manager, I would like to see words such as "terp", "dijk", "polder", "sloot", "overstroming" and so forth.
I think of two things:
Dikes and related concepts (flooding, pumping water, sea walls). The Netherlands are often held up as an example of what the rest of us should be doing to protect ourselves from flooding caused by climate change. (How about adding "climate change" as vocabulary for ALL Duolingo courses?)
Bicycling. Bicyclists in the United States talk endlessly about the Netherlands as a bicyclist's paradise.
It's hard to pick just three : gezellig, lekker and Sinterklaas.
Other words I would like to be there : drop, zuinig, nuchter, polder and maybe some more slangy words like flappentappen and ouwehoeren.
I assume words like fiets, kaas, tulp, molen, etc. will already be in the course.
Other words in there should obviously all the bad fat foods besides the sweet ones already mentioned: kroketten, frikandellen, bitterballen, oliebollen, patat/friet, berenklauwen, broodjes bal, etc.
I think you should focus on the sounds that are difficult for foreigners. First example that comes to mind is that my Romanian girlfriend always giggles when I say gegiechel, because she finds our 'g' so funny, but she still can't quite catch it herself.
I think of Utrecht and Lois Van Baarle. Not your normal things, but as an artist I would love to move to the Netherlands. It sounds like a wonderful country and I heard they are always in need of skilled workers. The quality of life as a whole seems so much higher than in the US.
As someone who was born and has lived his whole live in the vicinity in Utrecht, I can say it's a beautiful city, more like Amsterdam with old buildings than The Hague and Rotterdam, which are more modern looking and way bigger. I work in Amsterdam, but I prefer Utrecht because it's smaller and is less crazy.
I used to read the tongue-in-cheek blog "Stuff Dutch People Like", so I think of the following words:
Curtains (Because Dutch people tend to let people see in their windows? Maybe "privacy" or its antonym is a better choice.)
Calendar (I remember something about everyone scheduling things, especially workplace cakes. I need to reread the blog, but maybe there's a special word for either the tendency to schedule things or for the special cakes?)
Boogers (Really! Apparently many Dutch are unapologetic nose pickers? Good on them for the honesty, I guess!)
Oranges,diamonds,beer,canals,football,hockey,paintings,artists,bicycles,cheese,agriculture,trade,technology,justice,expert linguists,advocaat ,core europeans ,explorers ,masters and party animals!!
What I think: canals, pannekoeken, bitterballen, oranjegekte, bicicles, windmills, the gezellig feeling :D
Other-languages speaker here, I think of windmills, stroopwafels, the internet (it seems like everyone on the internet is from NL), bikes, michigan (don't ask), polders, canals, tulips, all that fun stuff :D