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  5. "Quando si mangia?"

"Quando si mangia?"

Translation:When do we eat?

April 22, 2013

94 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnrush

I may be mistaken, but I do not believe this sentence is using the reflexive verb 'mangiarsi', which would mean to eat oneself (gulp!). According to wordreference, 'mangiarsi' is limited to situations like biting your nails or enjoying yourself eating.

Instead I think this is a case of 'si impersonal', "When does one eat?" or "When do you eat?" or "When do we eat?" with the first one being the closest literal translation. That is consistent with translations such as "When does he eat?" being marked incorrect since the question is not about any specific person. See http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verb-essere.htm.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Libellule808

"Si" is also used to refer to "we"."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DamionPelosi

"Si" just makes it impersonal. You aren't trying to say specifically who is eating (and probably don't care because you are hungry lol).

When are we (we as in whoever is going to eat) eating.


[deactivated user]

    Thanks for clarifying, however I don't think Duolingo actually teaches that. The tables show si relating to they and he,she. I might be completely thick.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randy921202

    I totally agree...one has to base one's answers on the teaching that has taken place...and not mark the answer wrong if it IS based on that teaching.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Libellule808

    "...clarifying; however..."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/awpoppo

    Thank you Ron Swanson, I'm sorry to see your streak is gone. Hope you learned all you could first.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnrush

    Aw, many years ago I tried to teach myself Italian playing the Berlitz cassette tapes on a Sony Walkman. Dating myself there, I suppose. Gave up after a few weeks. I am now in my fourth year of studying Italian daily after having stumbled on DuoLingo. I still return to DL to freshen up my tree. I still curse the owl when I know my translation is good but not yet coded into the correct response list. DL and I have a complicated relationship!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michaelsco318887

    Thanks for your valuable input. You are a model for me.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EugeneDavid

    excellent explanations - appreciate your help!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarenColle

    Thank you, johnrush, for a great explanation! I spent a good 45 minutes on the site you provided the link for...a jaw-dropping resource for the serious student!!!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jfchacon

    So... if I understand correctly, is this is like the French "on" as in "On mange quand?"?

    Or like the Spanish "se" as in "¿Cuándo se come?"?

    Pretty much an impersonal particle that can be understood as an implicit "We", right?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ForzaRoma23

    Si in italian has the same function of "man" in German.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusieOpperia

    Thank you for this!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peg471311

    Unfortunately the link isn't working...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnrush

    Hey, Peg, I just checked the link, and it worked for me. Good luck!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Min165048

    This link seems not to work ... I tried italian.about.com and got thought.co. I'm guessing it has rebranded??


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnrush

    The content is still there: see 'Impersonal form' in the section 'Essere as an Auxiliary Verb.' It shows five English translations for 'Si mangia,' some of them are not obvious unless you are able to recognize 'si impersonal' in Italian.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Esther485620

    Thank you loads!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anapanone

    Quando si mangia? = 'When do we eat? huh? Where is the "we" indicated? I understood "si" as 'to he/she/it" reflexive pronoun and mangia is not conjugated for 'we'....i am lost!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

    As pointed out by JohnRush at the top of this conversation, "si" can be used as an indefinite pronoun, - like "someone" or "anybody" in english.

    The closest translation would be something like "When does one eat?" (If you imagine they left out ". . in Italy?" it might make more sense.)

    But, as pointed out below by RolandoFurioso, "Quando si mangia?" is a frequently used phrase as it is considered more polite than the direct question "Quando mangiamo?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craaash80

    It is an impersonal form.

    The closest thing in english would be "When do you eat?" (not "you you", talking in general)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/onlyonepinman

    So you mean you as in the "universal" or plural sense rather than the "personal" singular sense. Even so, would that not be Quando Mangiate?

    For me this is just another example of Duolingo asking questions about something which it hasn't really taught and Clitics is by far the worst module so far for doing this. It almost feels as if it should really be split into two modules so that they can include extra information in the tips section to cover what is actually a phenomenally complicated subject


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fred44761

    My feeling exactly. I completed this module a couple months ago and hated every second of the learning (or lack of it). Made me want to give up entirely. It has returned a broken crown 3 times now and I want to dump learning Italian when I get into the lesson to restore. Can anyone reference additional (outside of DL???) that can make this understandable?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GinaWitt3

    I work at a dentist and we can restore 3 broken crowns.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/roman_ts

    Why "we eat" and not "he eats"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stuart.hol2

    Exactly! I'd have thought the mangia would suggest a he/she eats answer, and if the correct response is we eat then mangiamo should have been used?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookcases123

    I also thought "mangiamo"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

    This sentence is simply not one where "he" can be used impersonally, even though "he" sometimes can be used in that way.

    This particular sentence involves the idea that the speaker as several others will be eating together some time in the future. Since it involves the speaker and others, that means you have to use "we" if you're being particular, but "one" can be an impersonal way of asking the same question.

    In other instances, "one" or "you" can be used interchangeably where the speaker is not involving himself/herself in the future action, e.g., "When you go to the train station, what's the best way of getting there?" Again, "one goes" can be substituted as an impersonal way of asking the same question.

    "they" can also be used to refer to a group of people: "They're planting flowers all over the city!" You would not substitute "one" here, except in a highly stylized (and inaccurate way): "One is planting flowers all over he city." It's not incorrect English, it's just weird and unusual - the kind of thing the Queen of English might say, but not the common folk.

    "he" can rarely be used to replace "they", but the focus shifts from a general group to an unknown single person: "They broke my car windows last night last night! If I find them, I will have them/him/her arrested!" You could also say, "Someone broke my windows - If I find him/her, I'll...."

    In American English, one can find instances where the clauses are not matched as to person: "SomeONE broke into my car; if I find THEM, I'll...." Tecnically that's bad grammar, but since we're discussion impersonal statements, it's not completely wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/siebolt

    The reflexive verb "mangiarsi" would need an object. The impersonal construction with "si + verb 3. person" is used quite often. As English uses the impersonal much less often you get translations like "when do we eat"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirin-Rose

    ok that makes sense. Grazie :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PliLopes

    "When is it eaten" is also correct! :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mariaelena256

    is quando mangiamo? correct, too.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaveDarwin

    The use of 'si' before a 3rd person verb is what we use in English as the general. It is here used to say 'When do we eat', referring to the collective people in the group. If you were to say, for example, 'In Italy, they eat bread,' you would say, 'In Italia, si mangia pane.' Hope that makes a little sense!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fariba.R

    Why "we eat" and not "he eats"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RolandoFurioso

    duolingo is not literally correct. Literally it means: 'When does one eat' and 'quando mangiamo?' is 'when do we eat'. But its so common do use 'Quando si mangia?' because its not so direct and therefore considered to be more polite.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClassiDuo

    Which is a very good argument in favor of not always insisting on literal translations when the string of words tends to carry an more holistic idiomatic meaning (that seems to be a constant tug-of-war here on dL).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ktg57

    makes so much sense now. thank you for your help


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucianofung

    Thanks for the explaination although I find it very weird that this phrase is used more often than "Quando mangiamo" but i guess there are many things that people find weird in English. [Native english speaker]


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wordforrest

    Super helpful. Best, clearest explanation I have seen.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stephaniegkw

    thanks- very helpful.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Caterinabella

    It's so much easier to say "Quando mangiamo?", isn't it? I noticed some other comments agree. However, I do see the reasoning about "Quando si mangia" being less direct, more polite. Just have to memorize it this way I guess.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FuocoSolare

    Why "we" with "mangia" ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_USA

    That's my question too. I have si- himself, herself.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_USA

    If this were a book I'd have thrown it out a window by now.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BobMallord

    This impersonal usage is something "si trova" (one finds) a lot while reading Italian literature.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexandra121555

    I would think this sentence might be better translated as: When does one eat? Is that right?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirin-Rose

    how do we know this isn't a reflexive verb?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyphax

    Yes, siebolt gives a great explanation for this sentence ... but I would like to be able to recognize and apply the rule to all 'reflexive verbs'. What is a reflexive verb?

    Also, can someone explain the connection between 'mangiare' and 'mangiarsi'? They appear to be connected somehow ...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anapanone

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H7j6ceCbvA

    towards the end of the video he explains it really clearly!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ktg57

    thank you so much for this resource!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EstelleTweedie

    Mmm ... I need an answer to the same questions ... please!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookcases123

    I also need an answer.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/franwy

    In that case, Why couldn't we just ask... Quando mangiamo?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wolf1mtb

    Ne ho fin sopra i capelli (I'm sick up to my hair...basically, I'm fed up to here)! If you're going to throw curve balls to folks DL, have some explanations somewhere!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveKillick

    There is no explanations, ever. It is similar to another mystery, 'Aspettiamo per cinque ore' in another unit which suddenly becomes 'We have been waiting for five hours.' Why does the present tense suddenly turn into 'have been'? No answer came the stern reply. But I think you deserve a lingot for a splendid phrase that I can use, being fed up to beneath my hat. Thank you, even if I am no wiser on why si mangia becomes 'we eat'.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wolf1mtb

    Mille grazie Steve! BTW: Some great insights may be found in the DIscussion area where folks are fleshing out explanations. DL seems to take some license with translations. Quando si mangia? = When does one eat? Certainly, if asked in a roomful of hungry people, one could infer the question is on everyone's behalf. The lack of context and "close enough" translation is frustrating. "Quando mangiamo?" = When do WE eat? Ciao 4 now!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jpdude123

    Why not mangiamo then?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EREyRU

    Bloody hell! I only got thus right because it gave a set of words from which to construct a translation and this was the only sentence that made sense. The suggested translations when I tap on a word were all in 2nd or 3rd person. There needs to be SOME kind of explanation of how and why this is the correct translation and the context in which it would be appropriate, otherwise it's next to useless as an exercise.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wagner491672

    I don't understand this sentence...

    Why is 'Quando si mangia?' translated as 'When do we eat?' I think the right sentence translated would be "When does 'he/she/it' eat?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

    If you translate it as "When does he/she eat?" then the si means you have to add "himself/herself" at the end, a gruesome kind of sentence.

    The same can be said for "When does it eat itself?", except that idiomatic usage transforms the sentence into an impersonal format. If we translated it as passive voice, the meaning would be both more literal and closer to the translation: "When is it eaten?" = "When does one eat?" = "When do we eat?"

    It is often a key hint to an impersonal sentence when you see si in front of a 3rd person singular verb, and it's a good idea to consider translating it as 3rd person impersonal using the English "one" as the subject. That will not always be true, but it's something to always be on the lookout for.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJTitmus

    Thanks very helpful especially the lookout piece.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith352848

    Thanks for this. It makes fine sense. Still, I think Duo should offer some sort of alert with sentences that are more or less colloquial. "Quando si mangia? does NOT actually SAY "When do we eat" no matter how you slice it. No pun intended...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PabloPerez456

    For what I have read it is the equivalent of "on" in French "se" in Spanish and "a gente" in Portuguese


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

    Yes as to the French. Don't know Portuguese - yet.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelissaHoe2

    Where is 'we' coming from???


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJTitmus

    Hi Mellissa, 'we' is translated from the 'si' in this construct. Si equates to 'we'( or 'one') e.g. when do we eat or when does one eat - have a look at Jeffrey's post in reply to Wagner above, it explains more. I hope this helps you.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Giga_bites

    It's like "man" in German or "on" in French I presume. In German we would also say "Wann wird gegessen?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ripcurlgirl

    That is the impression I got as well.
    Like "Quand est-ce qu'on mange ?" / "Quand mange-on ?" in French.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveKillick

    I cannot see how mangia can become we eat? Mind you I could desperately do with a table of these damn clitics in order for me to understand what is direct, indirect, singular and plural because at the moment I have very much hit the wall with this section.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJTitmus

    See Jeffrey's reply to Wagner four months ago - this explains mangia and it's application in this instance.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveKillick

    Thank you, I shall go and look now.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelissaHoe2

    Why does it not say mangiamo if it is speaking of 'we'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Francesca12991

    Thank you johnrush and marninger who both gave excellent explanations for "quando si manga?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elena75121

    I don't understand why it's "si mangia" to say 'we eat'. Why isn't it "Quando mangiamo"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveKillick

    I do wish the explanatory notes on this damn clitics were clearer. Si is down as he, she and they. I thought this meant when does he eat. I guess I shall simply have to try not to care when he eats.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen997280

    Why is mangia and not mangiamo?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/richardden328382

    i cannot understand this - the verb is in third person singular - so that is "when does he/she eat" and god knows what the "si" is doing. When does he eat himself perhaps? No it's "when do we eat" WHY??????????????? Bonkers


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/richardden328382

    this is madness - and even if it is correct it has no place in a teach yourself module as it is impoosible to make sense of it without lengthy discussion (and probably even after it!) This must be one of those inexplicable colloquialismsthat are in every language - but it shouldn't be here as there is no way to translate it correctly


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/egregor1

    i'm using ci for we. Now there is si for we. I'm confused!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rbaldassari

    why isn't the answer quando si mangiamo?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris783722

    Why would not " Quando mangiamo? I do not get it?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julie194649

    So, what's the difference between this and quando mangiamo?? Can you say quando mangiamo??


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julie194649

    Why wouldn't you say quando mangiamo??

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