"Quando si mangia?"
Translation:When do we eat?
118 CommentsThis discussion is locked.
Quando si mangia? = 'When do we eat? huh? Where is the "we" indicated? I understood "si" as 'to he/she/it" reflexive pronoun and mangia is not conjugated for 'we'....i am lost!
As pointed out by JohnRush at the top of this conversation, "si" can be used as an indefinite pronoun, - like "someone" or "anybody" in english.
The closest translation would be something like "When does one eat?" (If you imagine they left out ". . in Italy?" it might make more sense.)
But, as pointed out below by RolandoFurioso, "Quando si mangia?" is a frequently used phrase as it is considered more polite than the direct question "Quando mangiamo?"
It is an impersonal form.
The closest thing in english would be "When do you eat?" (not "you you", talking in general)
So you mean you as in the "universal" or plural sense rather than the "personal" singular sense. Even so, would that not be Quando Mangiate?
For me this is just another example of Duolingo asking questions about something which it hasn't really taught and Clitics is by far the worst module so far for doing this. It almost feels as if it should really be split into two modules so that they can include extra information in the tips section to cover what is actually a phenomenally complicated subject
1158
My feeling exactly. I completed this module a couple months ago and hated every second of the learning (or lack of it). Made me want to give up entirely. It has returned a broken crown 3 times now and I want to dump learning Italian when I get into the lesson to restore. Can anyone reference additional (outside of DL???) that can make this understandable?
I may be mistaken, but I do not believe this sentence is using the reflexive verb 'mangiarsi', which would mean to eat oneself (gulp!). According to wordreference, 'mangiarsi' is limited to situations like biting your nails or enjoying yourself eating.
Instead I think this is a case of 'si impersonal', "When does one eat?" or "When do you eat?" or "When do we eat?" with the first one being the closest literal translation. That is consistent with translations such as "When does he eat?" being marked incorrect since the question is not about any specific person. See http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verb-essere.htm.
"Si" just makes it impersonal. You aren't trying to say specifically who is eating (and probably don't care because you are hungry lol).
When are we (we as in whoever is going to eat) eating.
Thanks. Perhaps in this context it is similar to "When does one eat?" in English.
Thanks for clarifying, however I don't think Duolingo actually teaches that. The tables show si relating to they and he,she. I might be completely thick.
I totally agree...one has to base one's answers on the teaching that has taken place...and not mark the answer wrong if it IS based on that teaching.
I have to agree...just when i thought i was getting it, it threw this at me! I didn't know about the impersonal 'si'.
Let's complicate this lesson more and more and never, never let up. Yes, I have given up over and over and keep coming back and feel really stupid, because I never get anywhere! Okay, I'm done with my rant.
- 372
"Ci" and "si" both refers to "us", according to Duo. Can anyone tell me what's the difference between them?
Per the "tips", ci replaces "in" or "a" + object, and ne replaces "di" + object. They both generically refer to someone but are used based on the preposition of the sentence.
Thank you Ron Swanson, I'm sorry to see your streak is gone. Hope you learned all you could first.
Aw, many years ago I tried to teach myself Italian playing the Berlitz cassette tapes on a Sony Walkman. Dating myself there, I suppose. Gave up after a few weeks. I am now in my fourth year of studying Italian daily after having stumbled on DuoLingo. I still return to DL to freshen up my tree. I still curse the owl when I know my translation is good but not yet coded into the correct response list. DL and I have a complicated relationship!
Thank you, johnrush, for a great explanation! I spent a good 45 minutes on the site you provided the link for...a jaw-dropping resource for the serious student!!!
- 3276
So... if I understand correctly, is this is like the French "on" as in "On mange quand?"?
Or like the Spanish "se" as in "¿Cuándo se come?"?
Pretty much an impersonal particle that can be understood as an implicit "We", right?
This link seems not to work ... I tried italian.about.com and got thought.co. I'm guessing it has rebranded??
The content is still there: see 'Impersonal form' in the section 'Essere as an Auxiliary Verb.' It shows five English translations for 'Si mangia,' some of them are not obvious unless you are able to recognize 'si impersonal' in Italian.
- 1647
Exactly! I'd have thought the mangia would suggest a he/she eats answer, and if the correct response is we eat then mangiamo should have been used?
The reflexive verb "mangiarsi" would need an object. The impersonal construction with "si + verb 3. person" is used quite often. As English uses the impersonal much less often you get translations like "when do we eat"
The use of 'si' before a 3rd person verb is what we use in English as the general. It is here used to say 'When do we eat', referring to the collective people in the group. If you were to say, for example, 'In Italy, they eat bread,' you would say, 'In Italia, si mangia pane.' Hope that makes a little sense!
duolingo is not literally correct. Literally it means: 'When does one eat' and 'quando mangiamo?' is 'when do we eat'. But its so common do use 'Quando si mangia?' because its not so direct and therefore considered to be more polite.
- 3078
Which is a very good argument in favor of not always insisting on literal translations when the string of words tends to carry an more holistic idiomatic meaning (that seems to be a constant tug-of-war here on dL).
Thanks for the explaination although I find it very weird that this phrase is used more often than "Quando mangiamo" but i guess there are many things that people find weird in English. [Native english speaker]
It's so much easier to say "Quando mangiamo?", isn't it? I noticed some other comments agree. However, I do see the reasoning about "Quando si mangia" being less direct, more polite. Just have to memorize it this way I guess.
- 2657
This impersonal usage is something "si trova" (one finds) a lot while reading Italian literature.
- 2487
I would think this sentence might be better translated as: When does one eat? Is that right?
Yes, siebolt gives a great explanation for this sentence ... but I would like to be able to recognize and apply the rule to all 'reflexive verbs'. What is a reflexive verb?
Also, can someone explain the connection between 'mangiare' and 'mangiarsi'? They appear to be connected somehow ...
Here's a start at what a reflexive verb is
http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verbs-reflexive.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H7j6ceCbvA
towards the end of the video he explains it really clearly!
- 285
Hi Mellissa, 'we' is translated from the 'si' in this construct. Si equates to 'we'( or 'one') e.g. when do we eat or when does one eat - have a look at Jeffrey's post in reply to Wagner above, it explains more. I hope this helps you.
I cannot see how mangia can become we eat? Mind you I could desperately do with a table of these damn clitics in order for me to understand what is direct, indirect, singular and plural because at the moment I have very much hit the wall with this section.
- 285
See Jeffrey's reply to Wagner four months ago - this explains mangia and it's application in this instance.
I don't understand why it's "si mangia" to say 'we eat'. Why isn't it "Quando mangiamo"?
I do wish the explanatory notes on this damn clitics were clearer. Si is down as he, she and they. I thought this meant when does he eat. I guess I shall simply have to try not to care when he eats.
Ne ho fin sopra i capelli (I'm sick up to my hair...basically, I'm fed up to here)! If you're going to throw curve balls to folks DL, have some explanations somewhere!
There is no explanations, ever. It is similar to another mystery, 'Aspettiamo per cinque ore' in another unit which suddenly becomes 'We have been waiting for five hours.' Why does the present tense suddenly turn into 'have been'? No answer came the stern reply. But I think you deserve a lingot for a splendid phrase that I can use, being fed up to beneath my hat. Thank you, even if I am no wiser on why si mangia becomes 'we eat'.
Mille grazie Steve! BTW: Some great insights may be found in the DIscussion area where folks are fleshing out explanations. DL seems to take some license with translations. Quando si mangia? = When does one eat? Certainly, if asked in a roomful of hungry people, one could infer the question is on everyone's behalf. The lack of context and "close enough" translation is frustrating. "Quando mangiamo?" = When do WE eat? Ciao 4 now!
i cannot understand this - the verb is in third person singular - so that is "when does he/she eat" and god knows what the "si" is doing. When does he eat himself perhaps? No it's "when do we eat" WHY??????????????? Bonkers
this is madness - and even if it is correct it has no place in a teach yourself module as it is impoosible to make sense of it without lengthy discussion (and probably even after it!) This must be one of those inexplicable colloquialismsthat are in every language - but it shouldn't be here as there is no way to translate it correctly
- 162
So, what's the difference between this and quando mangiamo?? Can you say quando mangiamo??
Bloody hell! I only got thus right because it gave a set of words from which to construct a translation and this was the only sentence that made sense. The suggested translations when I tap on a word were all in 2nd or 3rd person. There needs to be SOME kind of explanation of how and why this is the correct translation and the context in which it would be appropriate, otherwise it's next to useless as an exercise.
I don't understand this sentence...
Why is 'Quando si mangia?' translated as 'When do we eat?' I think the right sentence translated would be "When does 'he/she/it' eat?"
For what I have read it is the equivalent of "on" in French "se" in Spanish and "a gente" in Portuguese
It's like "man" in German or "on" in French I presume. In German we would also say "Wann wird gegessen?"
That is the impression I got as well.
Like "Quand est-ce qu'on mange ?" / "Quand mange-on ?" in French.
Thank you johnrush and marninger who both gave excellent explanations for "quando si manga?"
How on earth can the verb "mangia" refer to the plural "we" and not "he/she" - and how are we to know? Losing hearts in this connection is unbelievable and not fair when you are just trying to apply what you have learnt so far
This is a passive Si pronoun. like asking Generally speaking when do we eat? All passive
Question.. if we are talking about "we " eating, why isnt it followed by mangiamo (we eat)?
- 935
Can someone please help with (1), why isn't this Quando mangiamo? And (2) what is "si" doing in there. In all the pronoun lists out there, I find Noi and Ci for we/us, but not "si" anywhere.
So, could this also be "When does one eat?", "When do you (nonspecific you) eat?", in addition to "When do we eat?"
You need to look back at some of the explanations given by knowledgeable people a few years ago. There is no we/us in the sentence ... it seems that it's a kind of impersonal passive construction which cannot be translated directly into English ... like "when is it eaten" ... so in English we say "when do we eat". In Arikaans, and probably other Germanic languages, we might say "Wanneer word daar ge-eet" = When is there being eaten. Some of these examples you just need to accept and eventually they stick.
This is impossible with duo plus, im honestly annoyed. You ask duo for a hint and it doesnt give you the answer, i havent finished a lesson in this section for a WEEK
Hello, why do we use "Quando si mangia?" instead of "Quando mangiamo?" for the Question >When do we eat?<
- 596
I agree with you’re thinking and if in Italy , we would be understood with Quando mangiamo. However, there is the section ‘Clitics’ which introduces an entire series of additional pronouns,etc which really changes up what we’ve learnt until now (and the way true Italians would speak) However, I have struggled with the logic of it but with repetition, some of them stick. I’m hoping that the rest of the course is not based on this, because it will be a struggle for me. Not that helpful, sorry, but an explanation .