"Quando si mangia?"

Translation:When do we eat?

April 22, 2013

80 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/johnrush

I may be mistaken, but I do not believe this sentence is using the reflexive verb 'mangiarsi', which would mean to eat oneself (gulp!). According to wordreference, 'mangiarsi' is limited to situations like biting your nails or enjoying yourself eating.

Instead I think this is a case of 'si impersonal', "When does one eat?" or "When do you eat?" or "When do we eat?" with the first one being the closest literal translation. That is consistent with translations such as "When does he eat?" being marked incorrect since the question is not about any specific person. See http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verb-essere.htm.

June 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Libellule808

"Si" is also used to refer to "we"."

September 5, 2017

[deactivated user]

    Thanks for clarifying, however I don't think Duolingo actually teaches that. The tables show si relating to they and he,she. I might be completely thick.

    January 15, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Randy921202

    I totally agree...one has to base one's answers on the teaching that has taken place...and not mark the answer wrong if it IS based on that teaching.

    May 7, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Libellule808

    "...clarifying; however..."

    January 15, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/awpoppo

    Thank you Ron Swanson, I'm sorry to see your streak is gone. Hope you learned all you could first.

    July 18, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/johnrush

    Aw, many years ago I tried to teach myself Italian playing the Berlitz cassette tapes on a Sony Walkman. Dating myself there, I suppose. Gave up after a few weeks. I am now in my fourth year of studying Italian daily after having stumbled on DuoLingo. I still return to DL to freshen up my tree. I still curse the owl when I know my translation is good but not yet coded into the correct response list. DL and I have a complicated relationship!

    May 9, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/michaelsco318887

    Thanks for your valuable input. You are a model for me.

    June 14, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/HaydenSomerville

    huge

    December 21, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/EugeneDavid

    excellent explanations - appreciate your help!

    July 1, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/KarenColle

    Thank you, johnrush, for a great explanation! I spent a good 45 minutes on the site you provided the link for...a jaw-dropping resource for the serious student!!!

    June 11, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/jfchacon

    So... if I understand correctly, is this is like the French "on" as in "On mange quand?"?

    Or like the Spanish "se" as in "¿Cuándo se come?"?

    Pretty much an impersonal particle that can be understood as an implicit "We", right?

    June 25, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/SusieEinstein

    Thank you for this!

    July 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/ForzaRoma23

    Si in italian has the same function of "man" in German.

    December 19, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Peg471311

    Unfortunately the link isn't working...

    February 24, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/johnrush

    Hey, Peg, I just checked the link, and it worked for me. Good luck!

    February 24, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Min165048

    This link seems not to work ... I tried italian.about.com and got thought.co. I'm guessing it has rebranded??

    May 19, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/johnrush

    The content is still there: see 'Impersonal form' in the section 'Essere as an Auxiliary Verb.' It shows five English translations for 'Si mangia,' some of them are not obvious unless you are able to recognize 'si impersonal' in Italian.

    May 19, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/anapanone

    Quando si mangia? = 'When do we eat? huh? Where is the "we" indicated? I understood "si" as 'to he/she/it" reflexive pronoun and mangia is not conjugated for 'we'....i am lost!

    June 24, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/craaash80

    It is an impersonal form.

    The closest thing in english would be "When do you eat?" (not "you you", talking in general)

    April 2, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/Marninger

    As pointed out by JohnRush at the top of this conversation, "si" can be used as an indefinite pronoun like "someone" or "anybody" in english.

    The closest translation would be something like "When does one eat?" (If you imagine they just left out "in Italy?" it might make more sense.)

    But, as pointed out below by RolandoFurioso, this phrase is used a lot as it is considered more polite than the direct question "Quando mangiamo?"

    December 11, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/roman_ts

    Why "we eat" and not "he eats"?

    March 30, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/stuart.hol2

    Exactly! I'd have thought the mangia would suggest a he/she eats answer, and if the correct response is we eat then mangiamo should have been used?

    November 2, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/bookcases123

    I also thought "mangiamo"

    March 4, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/Jeffrey855877

    This sentence is simply not one where "he" can be used impersonally, even though "he" sometimes can be used in that way.

    This particular sentence involves the idea that the speaker as several others will be eating together some time in the future. Since it involves the speaker and others, that means you have to use "we" if you're being particular, but "one" can be an impersonal way of asking the same question.

    In other instances, "one" or "you" can be used interchangeably where the speaker is not involving himself/herself in the future action, e.g., "When you go to the train station, what's the best way of getting there?" Again, "one goes" can be substituted as an impersonal way of asking the same question.

    "they" can also be used to refer to a group of people: "They're planting flowers all over the city!" You would not substitute "one" here, except in a highly stylized (and inaccurate way): "One is planting flowers all over he city." It's not incorrect English, it's just weird and unusual - the kind of thing the Queen of English might say, but not the common folk.

    "he" can rarely be used to replace "they", but the focus shifts from a general group to an unknown single person: "They broke my car windows last night last night! If I find them, I will have them/him/her arrested!" You could also say, "Someone broke my windows - If I find him/her, I'll...."

    In American English, one can find instances where the clauses are not matched as to person: "SomeONE broke into my car; if I find THEM, I'll...." Tecnically that's bad grammar, but since we're discussion impersonal statements, it's not completely wrong.

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/siebolt

    The reflexive verb "mangiarsi" would need an object. The impersonal construction with "si + verb 3. person" is used quite often. As English uses the impersonal much less often you get translations like "when do we eat"

    April 22, 2013

    https://www.duolingo.com/Shirin-Rose

    ok that makes sense. Grazie :)

    April 22, 2013

    https://www.duolingo.com/PliLopes

    "When is it eaten" is also correct! :)

    January 27, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/mariaelena256

    is quando mangiamo? correct, too.

    January 8, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/Beatles-Musician

    yes

    January 8, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/mariaelena256

    Thanks

    January 8, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/bookcases123

    thanks

    March 4, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/Fariba.R

    Why "we eat" and not "he eats"?

    June 25, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/RolandoFurioso

    duolingo is not literally correct. Literally it means: 'When does one eat' and 'quando mangiamo?' is 'when do we eat'. But its so common do use 'Quando si mangia?' because its not so direct and therefore considered to be more polite.

    June 26, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/Owlspotting

    Which is a very good argument in favor of not always insisting on literal translations when the string of words tends to carry an more holistic idiomatic meaning (that seems to be a constant tug-of-war here on dL).

    December 5, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/ktg57

    makes so much sense now. thank you for your help

    June 26, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/Fariba.R

    grazie

    June 27, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/wordforrest

    Super helpful. Best, clearest explanation I have seen.

    May 20, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/stephaniegkw

    thanks- very helpful.

    June 1, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/lucianofung

    Thanks for the explaination although I find it very weird that this phrase is used more often than "Quando mangiamo" but i guess there are many things that people find weird in English. [Native english speaker]

    August 9, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/DaveDarwin

    The use of 'si' before a 3rd person verb is what we use in English as the general. It is here used to say 'When do we eat', referring to the collective people in the group. If you were to say, for example, 'In Italy, they eat bread,' you would say, 'In Italia, si mangia pane.' Hope that makes a little sense!

    September 22, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/FuocoSolare

    Why "we" with "mangia" ?

    July 28, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/Seattle_USA

    That's my question too. I have si- himself, herself.

    September 25, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/Caterinabella

    It's so much easier to say "Quando mangiamo?", isn't it? I noticed some other comments agree. However, I do see the reasoning about "Quando si mangia" being less direct, more polite. Just have to memorize it this way I guess.

    July 5, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/Seattle_USA

    If this were a book I'd have thrown it out a window by now.

    September 25, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/franwy

    In that case, Why couldn't we just ask... Quando mangiamo?

    November 20, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/BobMallord

    This impersonal usage is something "si trova" (one finds) a lot while reading Italian literature.

    May 3, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/alexandra121555

    I would think this sentence might be better translated as: When does one eat? Is that right?

    August 17, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/Shirin-Rose

    how do we know this isn't a reflexive verb?

    April 22, 2013

    https://www.duolingo.com/xyphax

    Yes, siebolt gives a great explanation for this sentence ... but I would like to be able to recognize and apply the rule to all 'reflexive verbs'. What is a reflexive verb?

    Also, can someone explain the connection between 'mangiare' and 'mangiarsi'? They appear to be connected somehow ...

    April 2, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/xyphax

    Here's a start at what a reflexive verb is

    http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verbs-reflexive.htm

    May 11, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/EstelleTweedie

    Thank you!

    May 12, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/anapanone

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H7j6ceCbvA

    towards the end of the video he explains it really clearly!

    June 24, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/ktg57

    thank you so much for this resource!

    June 24, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/EstelleTweedie

    Mmm ... I need an answer to the same questions ... please!

    May 11, 2014

    https://www.duolingo.com/bookcases123

    I also need an answer.

    March 4, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/jpdude123

    Why not mangiamo then?

    February 26, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/EREyRU

    Bloody hell! I only got thus right because it gave a set of words from which to construct a translation and this was the only sentence that made sense. The suggested translations when I tap on a word were all in 2nd or 3rd person. There needs to be SOME kind of explanation of how and why this is the correct translation and the context in which it would be appropriate, otherwise it's next to useless as an exercise.

    December 26, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/Wagner491672

    I don't understand this sentence...

    Why is 'Quando si mangia?' translated as 'When do we eat?' I think the right sentence translated would be "When does 'he/she/it' eat?"

    February 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Jeffrey855877

    If you translate it as "When does he/she eat?" then the si means you have to add "himself/herself" at the end, a gruesome kind of sentence.

    The same can be said for "When does it eat itself?", except that idiomatic usage transforms the sentence into an impersonal format. If we translated it as passive voice, the meaning would be both more literal and closer to the translation: "When is it eaten?" = "When does one eat?" = "When do we eat?"

    It is often a key hint to an impersonal sentence when you see si in front of a 3rd person singular verb, and it's a good idea to consider translating it as 3rd person impersonal using the English "one" as the subject. That will not always be true, but it's something to always be on the lookout for.

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/TJTitmus

    Thanks very helpful especially the lookout piece.

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Keith352848

    Thanks for this. It makes fine sense. Still, I think Duo should offer some sort of alert with sentences that are more or less colloquial. "Quando si mangia? does NOT actually SAY "When do we eat" no matter how you slice it. No pun intended...

    October 22, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/PabloPerez456

    For what I have read it is the equivalent of "on" in French "se" in Spanish and "a gente" in Portuguese

    February 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Jeffrey855877

    Yes as to the French. Don't know Portuguese - yet.

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/MelissaHoe2

    Where is 'we' coming from???

    May 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/TJTitmus

    Hi Mellissa, 'we' is translated from the 'si' in this construct. Si equates to 'we'( or 'one') e.g. when do we eat or when does one eat - have a look at Jeffrey's post in reply to Wagner above, it explains more. I hope this helps you.

    May 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Giga_bites

    It's like "man" in German or "on" in French I presume. In German we would also say "Wann wird gegessen?"

    June 26, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Ripcurlgirl

    That is the impression I got as well.
    Like "Quand est-ce qu'on mange ?" / "Quand mange-on ?" in French.

    June 26, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/ErdalPoyra1

    I

    June 29, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/SteveKillick

    I cannot see how mangia can become we eat? Mind you I could desperately do with a table of these damn clitics in order for me to understand what is direct, indirect, singular and plural because at the moment I have very much hit the wall with this section.

    August 3, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/TJTitmus

    See Jeffrey's reply to Wagner four months ago - this explains mangia and it's application in this instance.

    August 4, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/SteveKillick

    Thank you, I shall go and look now.

    August 4, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/MelissaHoe2

    Why does it not say mangiamo if it is speaking of 'we'?

    August 18, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Francesca12991

    Thank you johnrush and marninger who both gave excellent explanations for "quando si manga?"

    November 2, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Elena75121

    I don't understand why it's "si mangia" to say 'we eat'. Why isn't it "Quando mangiamo"?

    January 18, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/SteveKillick

    I do wish the explanatory notes on this damn clitics were clearer. Si is down as he, she and they. I thought this meant when does he eat. I guess I shall simply have to try not to care when he eats.

    April 8, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/wolf1mtb

    Ne ho fin sopra i capelli (I'm sick up to my hair...basically, I'm fed up to here)! If you're going to throw curve balls to folks DL, have some explanations somewhere!

    April 29, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/SteveKillick

    There is no explanations, ever. It is similar to another mystery, 'Aspettiamo per cinque ore' in another unit which suddenly becomes 'We have been waiting for five hours.' Why does the present tense suddenly turn into 'have been'? No answer came the stern reply. But I think you deserve a lingot for a splendid phrase that I can use, being fed up to beneath my hat. Thank you, even if I am no wiser on why si mangia becomes 'we eat'.

    April 30, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/wolf1mtb

    Mille grazie Steve! BTW: Some great insights may be found in the DIscussion area where folks are fleshing out explanations. DL seems to take some license with translations. Quando si mangia? = When does one eat? Certainly, if asked in a roomful of hungry people, one could infer the question is on everyone's behalf. The lack of context and "close enough" translation is frustrating. "Quando mangiamo?" = When do WE eat? Ciao 4 now!

    May 1, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Stephen997280

    Why is mangia and not mangiamo?

    May 27, 2019
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