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"All the men have two red hats."

Translation:Alle Männer haben zwei rote Hüte.

April 22, 2013

44 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cephalium

Surely there is a better way of saying this in German. 'Alle Männer haben .." means "all men have...",. That's quite a different meaning from "all the men have... ". The latter refers to all men in a specific group or class, but not to all men.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/christian

"alle Männer haben" also means "all the men have". This might sound counterintuitive to you, but that's the way it is. Remember that German is not subject to English grammar. That said, you can also say "all die Männer haben", but this may sound a bit quirky and "alle Männer haben" is way more common.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emac75

How would you say "all men have" then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/az_p
Mod

    ...with the sound of nothing but crickets and a passing tumbleweed, apparently.

    I am very interested to have this distinction clarified!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetyWawoo

    Ummm, as he said, "Alle Männer haben" can either mean "All men have" or "all of the men have".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim990251

    I guess you would rephrase it as "Every man has" - "Jeder Mann hat..."?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jakub678955

    That is the same thing. Every man has is exactly the same group as all men.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim990251

    This is "all THE men", not "all men", as explained above. "All the men" refers to a specific group of men. "Every man" means every single man.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/westphal1

    why is it not roten hute? zwei makes it plural


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidGoldman

    You are right. It is plural. But you must also watch out for case. In this sentence, "Hüte" is the direct object, so any adjectives preceding it are declined to the accusative case. Adjectives before plural nouns in the accusative case end in the suffix "e" when there is no preceding article. That is why the sentence translates to "All die Männer haben zwei rote Hüte."

    The suffix "en" attaches to adjectives before plural nouns in the accusative case only when there is a definite or indefinite article preceding the noun. So if the sentence asked you to translate "The men have THE two red hats", then it would change to "Die Männer haben die zwei roten Hüte."

    The Wikipedia article on German declension is SUPER helpful in this regard. I highly recommend using it as an aid. Here is the hyperlink:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declension#Attributive_adjectives

    Hope this helps.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/littlebearcub4

    why is rote and not roten? I thought all plural endings for adjectives is always en


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bar_an

    why "Alle die Männer haben zwei rote Hüte." is not correct?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dror.Schafer

    Alle already means "all the"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bcondron

    Yes, but adding the "die" doesn't make the sentence less correct. The German language is all about precision; adding redundant information in this case does not have an impact on whether the sentence is correct, or, more importantly, understandable to a native speaker.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cephalium

    I must differ with you there - see the initial posting above where I pointed out that there should be a way in German to distinguish between "All men " and "All the men...". Inserting 'die' does not achieve this. In response to bar_an's question above "Alle die Männer.." is not correct if it is being use to to resolve the issue. The reason is that "All the men.." in English really means "All of the men.." . Perhaps use of the genitive case would resolve the matter: "Alle der Männer..." . What do you think?

    An alternative approach would be to append a descriptive phrase "Alle Männer von der Stadt..." , "Alle Männer der Gruppe..." This may be the better solution.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bcondron

    This is an area where a weigh in from a native would be nice. Despite a decade of study and years in Germany, I'm uncertain how, in regular conversation, modern German differentiates between "all of the _" and "all ____". (Sorry for the formatting problem. I can't seem to get it to unbold and keep my underlines.) For the record, "Alle die Maenner" appears in biblical German rather frequently, and would seem to be being used to indicate "all the men." But as to whether or not "Alle Maenner" is the best translation, I'm uncertain. A quick google search for "Alle Maenner" quickly reveals that the main usage of that construction is to say "All men" not "All the men". Yet it is indisputable that "Alle Maenner" can and frequently does mean "All of the men".

    Alle der _ would be the most direct way to translate from the old(er) English, but I don't think I've ever heard anybody say it. A google search only turned back a few thousand results with that construction, so I'm going to say it may not be the best one.

    As for appending a descriptive phrase, while it does solve the issue it also feels rather cumbersome to me. And while I can't think of an instance at the top of my head (It's nearly 1:00 in the morning) it seems inevitable that an instance would arise where there was no proper DP to add, thus resuming the ambiguity.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cephalium

    Fair enough. The original question for this discussion was posted some weeks ago but, so far, none of the DL pros have weighed in.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/regnenistgut

    Jede männer....? Is that how it is normally stated..in germany when the equivalent of "all of the men" needs to be used.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/az_p
    Mod

      @regnenistgut

      To say "every man" you would use jeder Mann. Note that it uses the singular form, with strong declension on jede-.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deigan

      Does "Alle Männer haben zwei rote Hüte" have a scope ambiguity? Could it possibly mean "There are two hats that all the men have" in the same way that the English is ambiguous?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/geekns

      I've had this question three times and every time it says I'm using the wrong red. When I use "rote" or "rot", so I'm confused. It also says I should use "all" instead of "alle"


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/az_p
      Mod

        This is an old comment, but since it hasn't been answered directly:

        Adjectives like rot need no ending when they come after the noun (die Hüte sind rot), but they do when before the noun (zwei rote Hüte). These are called attributive adjectives. The rules for the ending can be found here.

        Duo seems to have changed its preferred translation since then, but in summary:
        alle
        all die
        alle die


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Weglang

        Well, I guess here "all" modifies the article "die", i.e. "all die". So neither gender nor number is applied ಠ_ಠ


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magoya14

        I don't know why "all" should be correct in this case.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bamburgbound

        Same question as geekns, why "all" and not "alle"?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Benjamin153604

        Warum kann ich nicht "menschen " sagen?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emac75

        Isn't "menschen" people, not just men?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hmsong.10

        You know what? I'm starting to think that the "tips" on Duolingo are just a suggestion at this point. nowhere in the tips does it give an example in which this would be "rote" and not "roten." Hüte is plural, so why is red reflected as singular???


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim990251

        Yeah, it's an annoying rule that isn't covered in the tips: when it's plural but there's no article, the adjective has the -e ending, not -en.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonas0173

        Actually it is covered in the tips, in the table there is a blank '-' column, for which the ending is said to be -e.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dror.Schafer

        Why Die ganze Manner isn't okay?!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lilygilder

        "Die ganzen Männer" would be very colloquial. "Alle Männer" is better.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/inkybaba

        It shouldn't be incorrect if your forget an umlaut


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

        Normally they say that you have a typo and give you credit.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wkjii

        I wrongfully submitted "Alles die Männer haben zwei rote Hüte." Then Duolingo said it should have read "All die Männer haben zwei rote Hüte."

        Is "all" what should be used in this sentence?

        When should one use "all" in German instead of "alle"?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GatitaRoja

        Why isn't it Alles Männer?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/julieford13

        my translation says 'All die etc.', is this a misspell on Duo's part?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KLTah

        no det, akk, pl. en/es/e/e: m/n/f/pl


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PinkDove3

        ONE OF THE OPTIONS JUST DISAPPEARED! NOT FAIR!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f0xG3_PatG

        I can't use "Jeder Mann hat... " in this particular exercise?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Veronica958917

        Why rote Hüte, not roten Hüte?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/regnenistgut

        Jede männer....? Is that how it is normally stated..in germany when the equivalent of "all of the men" needs to be used.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jean564934

        There's a problem with the multiple choice task here where you have to choose all correct sentences. Options 1 and 3 are identical but if I choose both it's marked wrong.

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